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[Draft] International Emergency Phone Line

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:40 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:How do automatic telephone exchanges work? Well modern ones work entirely in software – initially on mainframes – so creating a number alias is likely updating a database table. How did old ones like for rotary phones work? They had this big machine which would take inputs and then route them to a bunch of output wires. How do you make an alias? Connect the 112 output to the 911 input. How much does an insulated wire cost? Max like five dollars.

This isn't expensive.

Those claiming it is really need to tell us why.

"You truly live in a wonderful nation, Ambassador, where all telecommunications can be run through a single telephone exchange, and where accounting for a shared number is as simple as tying one wire to another."
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:04 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:How do automatic telephone exchanges work? Well modern ones work entirely in software – initially on mainframes – so creating a number alias is likely updating a database table. How did old ones like for rotary phones work? They had this big machine which would take inputs and then route them to a bunch of output wires. How do you make an alias? Connect the 112 output to the 911 input. How much does an insulated wire cost? Max like five dollars.

This isn't expensive.

Those claiming it is really need to tell us why.

"You truly live in a wonderful nation, Ambassador, where all telecommunications can be run through a single telephone exchange, and where accounting for a shared number is as simple as tying one wire to another."

"indeed. Our concerns are for the costs of administrative restructuring of zones affected by a change to a specific numerical sequence, both for government and telecom organizations and on consumers. We have not raised any such concerns over the literal hardware."

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:59 pm

If a telephone number to reach emergency services already exists, it must already handle all of the routing to the proper switchboards etc. When a telephone connection enters the network, it reaches the local automatic switching system. At the point of entry, divert the output to the other element's input. No switching systems need to be restructured or reassigned, passage through the rest of the network from that point is identical to the existing call. Most emergency calls, because of their implicit localisation, don't leave their local switch. Insofar as a telephone system has the ability to add new numbers, the costs of implementing any aliasing is minimal at best.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:42 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:If a telephone number to reach emergency services already exists, it must already handle all of the routing to the proper switchboards etc. When a telephone connection enters the network, it reaches the local automatic switching system. At the point of entry, divert the output to the other element's input. No switching systems need to be restructured or reassigned, passage through the rest of the network from that point is identical to the existing call. Most emergency calls, because of their implicit localisation, don't leave their local switch. Insofar as a telephone system has the ability to add new numbers, the costs of implementing any aliasing is minimal at best.

OOC: Reorganizing area codes and phone numbers with the same series of numbers at the start would be a great administrative undertaking with a great deal of external impacts. Its a big deal when somebody gets a new number. Doing it for everybody in a service area sounds disastrous for no tangible benefit given preexisting emergency systems.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:42 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Reorganizing area codes and phone numbers with the same series of numbers at the start would be a great administrative undertaking with a great deal of external impacts.

Like what specifically?

Separatist Peoples wrote:Its a big deal when somebody gets a new number. Doing it for everybody in a service area sounds disastrous for no tangible benefit given preexisting emergency systems.

People get new numbers all the time; I don't find it plausible that making a single new number is somehow to going to overwhelm the system.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:42 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Reorganizing area codes and phone numbers with the same series of numbers at the start would be a great administrative undertaking with a great deal of external impacts.

Like what specifically?

Separatist Peoples wrote:Its a big deal when somebody gets a new number. Doing it for everybody in a service area sounds disastrous for no tangible benefit given preexisting emergency systems.

People get new numbers all the time; I don't find it plausible that making a single new number is somehow to going to overwhelm the system.

Ooc: by choice, yes. That makes it worthwhile. This contains no such benefit and operates on a much broader scale.

I'm not sure how to elaborate further on the other point. AT&T expended a great deal of money and time since the 40s updating the North American Numbering Plan. Municipal efforts to split directories, when they come up, are bitter issues because of the difficulty fitting a new number into an existing system without leaving phone holders with an unknown new number. It costs businesses revenue and makes telecom management obnoxious.

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WayNeacTia
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Postby WayNeacTia » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:49 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:How do you make an alias? Connect the 112 output to the 911 input. How much does an insulated wire cost? Max like five dollars.

This isn't expensive.

Those claiming it is really need to tell us why.

"So I assume the massive bureaucracy that goes along with all of this, will magically appear as soon as we tie a couple of wires together?"

Wayne
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:53 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:"You truly live in a wonderful nation, Ambassador, where all telecommunications can be run through a single telephone exchange, and where accounting for a shared number is as simple as tying one wire to another."

"indeed. Our concerns are for the costs of administrative restructuring of zones affected by a change to a specific numerical sequence, both for government and telecom organizations and on consumers. We have not raised any such concerns over the literal hardware."

IC: "In most conventional telephone systems, I am aware that there are certain starting digits that are reserved for routing and/or switching calls. In my time fraternizing with other ambassadors in other nations, conducting diplomatic duties on behalf of my nation, and in my personal time, I have noted that these digits are with very little exception found right at the begin of the number sequence. These digits, I've noted, are 0 and 1. The reason these digits tend to be found at the beginning of the number sequence is to maintain an undisturbed service area chain. As for nations which have for some reason not devoted 0 and 1 to routing and switching purposes, and use them as area codes; I am convinced that the costs- whether they be financial or administrative- are insufficient to reject the provisions of this resolution. Any disruption would be localized, and would be an easy task for a government to overcome."

OOC: I've come up with an exemption that should satisfy most nations. I'll type it out in the draft.

UPDATE: Exemption done.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:44 am

Or you could just mandate the latter part of this resolution instead as per the 'exempts' clause.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:07 am

"The exemption appears to require governments plaster emergency numbers on entirely unrelated documents, websites, and facilities. Including those not owned by governments, in the case of lodging. Our opposition to this requirement is not rooted in cost, but absurdity. Why individuals on our internal taxation agency's website need to know the emergency number is beyond me. Nor why any hotel or AeroBnB a foreigner may use needs it, regardless of how likely that lodging is to be used by foreigners. Nor why our wildlife tracking helicopters need it painted on them. The requirements are, again, overbroad and without realistic policy analysis. While not expensive as such, though I suppose in the aggregate it is another cumulative cost without national benefit, they are entirely unnecessary.

"The C.D.S.P. is becoming increasingly willing to actively campaign against this upon submission based on the half-hearted policy justifications and blithe disregard for the very real costs and de minimis benefits of this proposal."
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:29 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"The exemption appears to require governments plaster emergency numbers on entirely unrelated documents, websites, and facilities. Including those not owned by governments, in the case of lodging. Our opposition to this requirement is not rooted in cost, but absurdity. Why individuals on our internal taxation agency's website need to know the emergency number is beyond me. Nor why any hotel or AeroBnB a foreigner may use needs it, regardless of how likely that lodging is to be used by foreigners. Nor why our wildlife tracking helicopters need it painted on them. The requirements are, again, overbroad and without realistic policy analysis. While not expensive as such, though I suppose in the aggregate it is another cumulative cost without national benefit, they are entirely unnecessary.

OOC: Yeah, I saw how broad that became and I simplified it, made it more specific. As for lodging: I find it improbable that hotels, bed and breakfasts, and other temporary lodgings will be unable to display the local, preexisting emergency number to visitors.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:52 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"The exemption appears to require governments plaster emergency numbers on entirely unrelated documents, websites, and facilities. Including those not owned by governments, in the case of lodging. Our opposition to this requirement is not rooted in cost, but absurdity. Why individuals on our internal taxation agency's website need to know the emergency number is beyond me. Nor why any hotel or AeroBnB a foreigner may use needs it, regardless of how likely that lodging is to be used by foreigners. Nor why our wildlife tracking helicopters need it painted on them. The requirements are, again, overbroad and without realistic policy analysis. While not expensive as such, though I suppose in the aggregate it is another cumulative cost without national benefit, they are entirely unnecessary.

OOC: Yeah, I saw how broad that became and I simplified it, made it more specific. As for lodging: I find it improbable that hotels, bed and breakfasts, and other temporary lodgings will be unable to display the local, preexisting emergency number to visitors.

Ooc: unable? No. My concern, IC and OOC, is rooted in practicality. A hotel in, say, central Oklahoma has very little need to cater to foreigners unfamiliar with 911. An AirBnB in upstate New York may have even less.

All the efforts proposed are all less efficient, even marginally, then shifting the burden of knowing the emergency system on the visiting individual. We expect foreign visitors to know local law and obey it. We expect them to have a functional grasp of local language. This seems no different, and in essentially every case it is more efficient to place the burden on the visitor to accommodate for the specific nation which they visit rather than the local state for all possible visitors.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:02 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: Yeah, I saw how broad that became and I simplified it, made it more specific. As for lodging: I find it improbable that hotels, bed and breakfasts, and other temporary lodgings will be unable to display the local, preexisting emergency number to visitors.

Ooc: unable? No. My concern, IC and OOC, is rooted in practicality. A hotel in, say, central Oklahoma has very little need to cater to foreigners unfamiliar with 911. An AirBnB in upstate New York may have even less.

All the efforts proposed are all less efficient, even marginally, then shifting the burden of knowing the emergency system on the visiting individual. We expect foreign visitors to know local law and obey it. We expect them to have a functional grasp of local language. This seems no different, and in essentially every case it is more efficient to place the burden on the visitor to accommodate for the specific nation which they visit rather than the local state for all possible visitors.

OOC: Of course, this may be true for your nation- yet other nations may welcome this measure as a means to standardize international emergency telephone use. As for your concerns about practicality for the exempt nations, establishments could simply use a placard to display their local emergency number, input it in cards or documents, display it outside on a sign that contains information such as the establishment's address, name, phone number, and amenities, etc. etc. I know where I live IRL that's a measure that has been taken in even small, rural motels, all the way to major bus terminals in large cities; and I don't doubt that most countries operate under a similar doctrine. I simply don't believe that any costs accrued, and any minor, temporary inconvenience imposed, outweighs the potential for tourists being left out to dry in the event of an emergency. You brought up IA's econ equation off-site- yet IA finds the costs being brought up to be insignificant; a view I share.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:58 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: Of course, this may be true for your nation- yet other nations may welcome this measure as a means to standardize international emergency telephone use.

Ooc: in which case they would already have done so.

as for for your concerns about practicality for the exempt nations, establishments could simply use a placard to display their local emergency number, input it in cards or documents, display it outside on a sign that contains information such as the establishment's address, name, phone number, and amenities, etc. etc. I know where I live IRL that's a measure that has been taken in even small, rural motels, all the way to major bus terminals in large cities; and I don't doubt that most countries operate under a similar doctrine. I simply don't believe that any costs accrued, and any minor, temporary inconvenience imposed, outweighs the potential for tourists being left out to dry in the event of an emergency. You brought up IA's econ equation off-site- yet IA finds the costs being brought up to be insignificant; a view I share.

Ooc: funny, I've had to travel for work much of my life and seen very few. That, said, I did cede that the cost of such measures as placards are relatively minor. I just don't agree that the benefits outweigh even those minor costs when the burden can be readily shifted onto visitors to be aware of their host nation's laws and policies for even less cost.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri May 28, 2021 1:40 pm

McCooley dusts off the draft which had been collecting dust on his study desk over the past few months. I might as well bring this up again... he thinks to himself.

After a brief commute, he finds himself in the chambers of the General Assembly. He finds and takes his seat, then beckons an aide to take his draft and project it on the chamber screens.
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Bananaistan
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Postby Bananaistan » Fri May 28, 2021 1:55 pm

OOC: Category/strength?

Recommend that "that have not yet done so" be stricken from section 1.

Is "any available emergency service" the appropriate working here? I mean you don't want reports of a car accident in the central plains being reported to the coast guard, there's no point in telling the fire brigade about a robbery in progress, etc.
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri May 28, 2021 2:00 pm

Bananaistan wrote:OOC: Category/strength?

Recommend that "that have not yet done so" be stricken from section 1.

Is "any available emergency service" the appropriate working here? I mean you don't want reports of a car accident in the central plains being reported to the coast guard, there's no point in telling the fire brigade about a robbery in progress, etc.

OOC: International Security with Strength: Mild should work.

IC: "Thank you for the advice. I've replaced 'any available emergency service' with 'the nearest available emergency service'. I have also nixed 'that have not yet done so' from the draft."
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Bananaistan
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Postby Bananaistan » Fri May 28, 2021 2:05 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:OOC: Category/strength?

Recommend that "that have not yet done so" be stricken from section 1.

Is "any available emergency service" the appropriate working here? I mean you don't want reports of a car accident in the central plains being reported to the coast guard, there's no point in telling the fire brigade about a robbery in progress, etc.

OOC: International Security with Strength: Mild should work.

IC: "Thank you for the advice. I've replaced 'any available emergency service' with 'the nearest available emergency service'. I have also nixed 'that have not yet done so' from the draft."


IC:"Could "appropriate" be shoehorned in?"

Although the fact that no dedicated emergency phone number is required makes this difficult. A nation that does has one, has no way of deciding which emergency service is the nearest or the most appropriate in the fashion that your normal operator on such lines would.
Last edited by Bananaistan on Fri May 28, 2021 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri May 28, 2021 2:26 pm

Bananaistan wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:OOC: International Security with Strength: Mild should work.

IC: "Thank you for the advice. I've replaced 'any available emergency service' with 'the nearest available emergency service'. I have also nixed 'that have not yet done so' from the draft."


IC:"Could "appropriate" be shoehorned in?"

Although the fact that no dedicated emergency phone number is required makes this difficult. A nation that does has one, has no way of deciding which emergency service is the nearest or the most appropriate in the fashion that your normal operator on such lines would.

"Indeed. This universal emergency phone line is a contingency line after all. I do believe that in a scenario where a caller is routed to a non-relevant service, this service would route the caller to the appropriate service as soon as possible."

OOC: I may submit this draft during this weekend if no further opposition is raised that hasn't yet been covered within the prior discussion.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Fri May 28, 2021 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Fri May 28, 2021 5:50 pm

Still opposed.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri May 28, 2021 5:55 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:Still opposed.

McCooley nods, acknowledging.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Fri May 28, 2021 6:25 pm

"Algerstonia is more than happy to support this proposal. This will improve the safety of Algerstonen tourists traveling to other countries. Infrastructure remodels are already ongoing to change the Algerstonen emergency codes. Playing a bit of devils advocate here, however: how will this proposal benefit countries that do not possess telephone hardware, or any similar long-range communication system?"

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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri May 28, 2021 6:36 pm

Great Algerstonia wrote:"Algerstonia is more than happy to support this proposal. This will improve the safety of Algerstonen tourists traveling to other countries. Infrastructure remodels are already ongoing to change the Algerstonen emergency codes. Playing a bit of devils advocate here, however: how will this proposal benefit countries that do not possess telephone hardware, or any similar long-range communication system?"

~Admiral-Ambassador Alec Ainsworth.

"Thank you, Ambassador Ainsworth. I should note that the existing emergency phone number can be retained in a nation. All this resolution requires is for the '111' number to be rerouted so it would automatically connect to an existing emergency line. As for your concerns regarding countries that do not possess that hardware you mentioned, Article 3 precludes them being affected by this resolution."
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Fri May 28, 2021 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
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Great Algerstonia
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Postby Great Algerstonia » Fri May 28, 2021 6:38 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:"Algerstonia is more than happy to support this proposal. This will improve the safety of Algerstonen tourists traveling to other countries. Infrastructure remodels are already ongoing to change the Algerstonen emergency codes. Playing a bit of devils advocate here, however: how will this proposal benefit countries that do not possess telephone hardware, or any similar long-range communication system?"

~Admiral-Ambassador Alec Ainsworth.

"Thank you, Ambassador Ainsworth. As for your concerns, Article 3 precludes them being affected by this resolution."

"Please address me by my military and diplomatic titles. Use either both positions or neither."
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri May 28, 2021 6:39 pm

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:"Thank you, Ambassador Ainsworth. As for your concerns, Article 3 precludes them being affected by this resolution."

"Please address me by my military and diplomatic titles. Use either both positions or neither."

McCooley nods. "I do apologize, Admiral-Ambassador. I shall keep that in mind."
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.
George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

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