[Draft] Ban on Gerrymandering

[Boda]

”I think this ban on gerrymandering is reasonable. Gerrymandering is a corrupt political tactic and it undermines the democracy of many countries. If we were to be in the World Assembly right now, this would be a logical FOR.”

[Attempted Socialism]

OOC: We don't need an OOC debate about electoral systems. Its not an unreasonable claim to state that NS government systems are susceptible to gerrymandering in some manner. If you want to debate gerrymandering in the US and in Europe, go to General.

I don't think RL is a bad source of inspiration to see if a resolution is reasonable or needed, at least as a first step. Using RL as a basis to ask questions or inform resolutions is, IMO, a valid way to gauge the impact of resolutions. We don't need to debate electoral systems to easily establish that all plurality/majoritarian systems and mangled PR systems can suffer from gerrymandering, especially because it's so settled, there are scores of Wikipedia articles on it.

Delegate-Ambassador Alexander Smith: Opposed.

OOC: Opposed. I should hope that Thermodolia has any evidence at all to prove that:

• "[g]errymandering" has occurred "in France, Ireland, the UK, and any other nation" besides the USA (yes, I mean all three of those nations); and that
• "SNTV," "STV, Two Round, IRV, [and] District PR systems" have all been subjected to gerrymanderers in the real world.

Banana did provide a source for district PR Ireland having been subject to gerrymandering:

... (Gerrymandering is also impossible in PR systems unless you mangle the PR system specifically to allow it)...

OOC: Not true.

I was unaware of UK gerrymandering being controversial; I learnt of the REFORM in, I think, my first semester at university which removed most rotten boroughs. I don't have examples on-hand from France, but all plurality/majoritarian systems are susceptible to gerrymandering because you can use it to pack voters, thus reducing the impact of their vote to a single or a few seats and gain partisan advantage in other seats. RL examples provide plenty of support to say a WA resolution banning gerrymandering is warranted, so your questions really serve to highlight the relevance of a ban on gerrymandering. The more relevant questions are: can this be done in an effective way; can it be done without wrecking non-gerrymanderable systems; can it be done within the GA rules; can people be convinced this is an issue properly solved through the WA and therefore vote for it?

[Sollens]

Franklin Steward: Taking the paper with the current state of the proposal on it, Steward reads it over, furrows his brow, looks up at Ambassador Æthr, opens his mouth to speak, hesitates, and looks back down at the sheet. Upon through the proposal again and confirming that he read it correctly, Steward finally speaks up.

"I, uh, see no reason for the World Assembly to impose electoral districts on autocrats, or other democratic systems in which the nation votes as a whole as opposed to in a districted format. Additionally, I feel that the lack of mandate for nations to actually follow the districting guidelines as set by the WABC nullifies the majority of this proposal. In fact, this leads me to question the need for anything following the initial 'demands' clause; it does not add anything of substance nor quality to the proposal."

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

FFS, the entire WA voting system is "gerrymandered" -- maybe not literally, but at least in the sense that some votes count a hell of a lot more than others. If my region has 6 WA members, and the other has 220, why does my region get only 11 (combined) votes, while the other gets 439?

Please develop a sense of irony before submitting this proposal.

[Retired WerePenguins]

What is gerrymandering?
No, seriously, you are writing a resolution to ban something and you don't really define it in the resolution.

The "solutions" may result in no gerrymandering, but they may likewise be difficult to obtain in practice.

Let's consider a typical example, urban, and rural locations. (I'm ignoring suburban because it's easier to think in binary terms.)
Since you want a system of equal population and since urban areas are more dense than rural, there will be smaller urban areas (all tending to be next to each other) and larger rural areas (all tending to be, again next to each other since cities tend to be centralized).
WIthin a given urban area, the probability of the citizens leaning towards the more urban party is going to be greater than those leaning towards the rural party. You can't combine a section of urban with rural because most urban sections (except those at the borders) border other urban centers. In order to fully create a competitive election district you would need to create a hodge podge assortment of disconnected locations to form the election district which is actually more hideous than a Gerrymandered Map arrangement.

More importantly, you have just taken a multi-dimensional issue and turned it into a one dimensional farce. "Competitive" is a very multidimensional word.
OOC I'll quote Wikipedia here, "In addition to its use achieving desired electoral results for a particular party, gerrymandering may be used to help or hinder a particular demographic, such as a political, ethnic, racial, linguistic, religious, or class group, such as in Northern Ireland where boundaries were constructed to guarantee Protestant Unionist majorities."

Conversely the opposite might be equally troubling, do you divide a specific community so that the neighbors around it are "competitive" in the resulting districts? Do you divide districts in such a way that local issues are divided into two or more districts so as to be competitive with the interests of other local districts?

Gerrymandering is like pornography; you know it when you see it. But the inverse of gerrymandering (total competitive districts) can result in more problems than that caused by potential gerrymandering. The result should be a happy medium and the necessity to only eliminate the extreme cases of gerrymandering; not create a perfect election district system that is incompatible with the reality of humanoid habitation patterns.

[Araraukar]

IC: "What is gerrymandering?"

OOC: What is gerrymandering? (Could check it online of course, but just be aware not everyone will know this term by heart.)

[Wallenburg]

"This resolution is profoundly undemocratic. It is not the place of the WA to force competitive elections on local election districts. If the district's population is overwhelmingly in favor of one or another ballot option, then that's democracy at work. This proposal imposes needless and harmful bureaucracy, and artificially inflates the electability of unpopular candidates. I cannot support this."

[Solar System Meritocratic Federation]

OOC: Is gerrymandering acceptable term ? It is real life referencee or there are word gerrymandering used in game universe,since i don't know?

[Ardiveds]

OOC: Is gerrymandering acceptable term ? It is real life referencee or there are word gerrymandering used in game universe.

OOC: well it's a pretty general term like 'election' or 'corruption' so no, its not a rl reference violation.

[Attempted Socialism]

OOC: Is gerrymandering acceptable term ? It is real life referencee or there are word gerrymandering used in game universe,since i don't know?

Both gerrymandering and rotten borough have, regardless of the specific historical origins, become general terms. It's no more a RL reference than, say, radio or computer.

[Solar System Meritocratic Federation]

OOC: mallaportionment is also allowed term in game resolutions?

[Attempted Socialism]

OOC: mallaportionment is also allowed term in game resolutions?

I don't know that there would be any issue with malapportionment, it's a regularly used word within the fields comparative politics and, to my knowledge, electoral politics and public administration.

[Solar System Meritocratic Federation]

Title: Ban on Gerrymandering
Category: Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Strong

Realizes that all elections should be free and fair.

Concerned that gerrymandering prevents elections from being fair.

Therefore declares that gerrymandering is the purposeful and willful act to distort electoral districts so that a certain outcome will always occur.

Demands that member states ban all forms of gerrymandering.

Creates the World Assembly Boundary Commission or WABC

Tasks the WABC to set the boundaries of electoral districts used to elect members to legislative bodies.

Declares that these districts must be compact, of equal population, and competitive

Suggests that member states implement independent districting commissions to set all electoral districts

Instructs the to Organization for Electoral Assistance (OEA) monitor all member states, their districting commissions, and WABC.

Notes that nothing in this act can be construed to require elections to take place in member states that do not have elections or those in which gerrymandering does not exist.

Here by enacts Ban on Gerrymandering

It’s been awhile since I’ve done one of these. I didn’t see anything like this in the list of resolutions, hopefully I didn’t miss anything

I suggest following changes
After words therefore change words "so that a certain outcome will always occur.", " with words "generating different results,in terms of winners,losers and each group representantion"
delete line begining with word Demands
delete lines begining with creates and task, it should be state responsibility to decide about that,we are international organisation not world government
in line begining with words declares replace this word with mandates ,and word competitive ,"allowing competitive elections"
in line begining with word suggest change it to mandate
change" Instructs[/b] the to Organization for Electoral Assistance (OEA) monitor all member states, their districting commissions, and WABC. ", with words "Creates Electoral Assistance Organisation ,with duty to monitor all states compliance with following resolution"

[Ardiveds]

I suggest following changes
After words therefore change words "so that a certain outcome will always occur.", " with words "generating different results,than if district was fairly created"
delete line begining with word Demands
delete lines begining with creates and task, it should be state responsibility to decide about that,we are international organisation not world government
in line begining with words declares replace this word with mandates ,and word competitive ,"allowing competitive elections"
in line begining with word suggest change it to mandate
change" Instructs[/b] the to Organization for Electoral Assistance (OEA) monitor all member states, their districting commissions, and WABC. ", with words "Creates Electoral Assistance Organisation consisted on members nominated by Secretary General,with duty to monitor all states compliance with following resolution"

OOC: You can’t dictate the staffing of WA committees

[Boda]

”Hmm indeed, the proposal is lacking the definition of gerrymandering. Regardless, what else is wrong with it?”

[Boston Castle]

OOC: Is gerrymandering acceptable term ? It is real life referencee or there are word gerrymandering used in game universe,since i don't know?

Both gerrymandering and rotten borough have, regardless of the specific historical origins, become general terms. It's no more a RL reference than, say, radio or computer.

OOC: Gerrymandering I can agree with. Not so Rotten Boroughs. They refer to a very specific way of apportionment that’s unique to the UK. I’ve not heard it used outside of a British context.

[Attempted Socialism]

I suggest following changes
After words therefore change words "so that a certain outcome will always occur.", " with words "generating different results,than if district was fairly created"

Then the definition becomes circular, because "fairly created" here is implied to be "not gerrymandered"; your suggestion merely moves the issue of clear definitions one step down the line.

delete line begining with word Demands
delete lines begining with creates and task, it should be state responsibility to decide about that,we are international organisation not world government

If you remove the ban on gerrymandering, why even suggest things? Just declare your opposition. Further, while I am iffy on an international committee, there's no doubt that national or regional committees can fall prey to partisan interests, creating the needed bias for gerrymandering, if they lack a proper institutional setup.

in line begining with words declares replace this word with mandates ,and word competitive ,"allowing competitive elections"

No comment.

in line begining with word suggest change it to mandate

Fits with the removal of the international committee, but I'm not sure that's desirable.

change" Instructs[/b] the to Organization for Electoral Assistance (OEA) monitor all member states, their districting commissions, and WABC. ", with words "Creates Electoral Assistance Organisation consisted on members nominated by Secretary General,with duty to monitor all states compliance with following resolution"

Illegal for rules violation as Ardiveds laid out. You're also introducing the oversight that you removed earlier.

All in all, I don't think these changes are at all desirable.


--
Edit:

Both gerrymandering and rotten borough have, regardless of the specific historical origins, become general terms. It's no more a RL reference than, say, radio or computer.

OOC: Gerrymandering I can agree with. Not so Rotten Boroughs. They refer to a very specific way of apportionment that’s unique to the UK. I’ve not heard it used outside of a British context.

I've seen it used within study of political institutions and (historical) comparative politics. No doubt about the origins, but usage today includes describing similar situations. I won't go digging through my bachelor notes for this, but Wikipedia notes a few contemporary uses and setups comparable to the UK rotten boroughs have been present in several developing democracies during the 19th century, to my knowledge described as rotten boroughs in the literature today.
But, seeing as how Thermodolia only wants to use gerrymandering, I won't argue this point further.

[Solar System Meritocratic Federation]

I changed my proposal of changes .You can see now updated version. Anyway creating international comitee designating electoral boundaries isn't right . We cannot allow for too much power in hands of WA . We shouldn't be a centralized world government ,but international organisation . Some policies of WA needs to be abolished,we wish to preserve some degree of independence for each nation.

[Separatist Peoples]

I changed my proposal of changes .You can see now updated version. Anyway creating international comitee designating electoral boundaries isn't right . We cannot allow for too much power in hands of WA . We shouldn't be a centralized world government ,but international organisation . Some policies of WA needs to be abolished,we wish to preserve some degree of independence for each nation.

"The WA has unlimited jurisdiction already. It has the power. You have warranted that too much control is bad without articulating justification for why control is bad in this specific situation, ambassador. That will not convince anybody who does not already agree with you."

[Imperium Anglorum]

I changed my proposal of changes .You can see now updated version. Anyway creating international comitee designating electoral boundaries isn't right . We cannot allow for too much power in hands of WA . We shouldn't be a centralized world government ,but international organisation . Some policies of WA needs to be abolished,we wish to preserve some degree of independence for each nation.

Elsie Mortimer Wellesley. Platitudes to sovereignty are uncompelling without identification of specific harms.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

OOC: Is gerrymandering acceptable term ? It is real life referencee or there are word gerrymandering used in game universe,since i don't know?

Both gerrymandering and rotten borough have, regardless of the specific historical origins, become general terms. It's no more a RL reference than, say, radio or computer.

Except that you have two problems with "gerrymandering": it is a phenomenon specific to U.S. politics (meaning, what's the point of writing universally applicable legislation about it?); and also, gerrymandering was named for Elbridge Gerry, a politician from Massachusetts who is accused of instigating the practice.

[Liberimery]

Both gerrymandering and rotten borough have, regardless of the specific historical origins, become general terms. It's no more a RL reference than, say, radio or computer.

Except that you have two problems with "gerrymandering": it is a phenomenon specific to U.S. politics (meaning, what's the point of writing universally applicable legislation about it?); and also, gerrymandering was named for Elbridge Gerry, a politician from Massachusetts who is accused of instigating the practice.

He wasn’t the instigator of it but rather someone who was associated with a particularly egregious early example of it. The -manner part was because his district looked like a Salamander. I believe a generic term would be District Packing and District Cracking which are the two mechanisms by which Gerrymandered Districts are achieved (either draw the lines so the minority party’s electoral base is all in one district OR draw the lines so the minority party’s base is split into two districts with the border running through the community that would provide a strong vote to the party were it in a single district.)

[Attempted Socialism]

Both gerrymandering and rotten borough have, regardless of the specific historical origins, become general terms. It's no more a RL reference than, say, radio or computer.

Except that you have two problems with "gerrymandering": it is a phenomenon specific to U.S. politics (meaning, what's the point of writing universally applicable legislation about it?); and also, gerrymandering was named for Elbridge Gerry, a politician from Massachusetts who is accused of instigating the practice.

We have already been over the "specific to US politics) bit, so I won't repeat myself. The origin of gerrymandering as a word is not, I think, a legitimate criticism; plenty of words get named or coined by someone without it being RL references, and gerrymander has transitioned into a word used broadly in the literature as well as in common parlance.

[Desmosthenes and Burke]

OOC:
In re: gerrymandering. The word is accepted, in lowercase, in the Petit Robert as a French word. I think we are more than at the point of the word being generic enough.

IC:
So long as this resolution mandates that some WA organ determines electoral districts, to the point of meddling in municipal affairs, there is a greater chance of the Republic converting to the Cultus Christianus than there is of us supporting this drivel.

[Araraukar]

Therefore declares that gerrymandering is the purposeful and willful act to distort electoral districts so that a certain outcome will always occur.

OOC: So, since nothing is certain, this never happens and no act is gerrymandering.

Demands that member states ban all forms of gerrymandering.

I can demand you to ignore gravity but you're unlikely to fly nevertheless. In other words, just make it "bans gerrymandering". Or you could roll this together with the definition, abandon the USA-specific word and just use "Bans the distorting of electoral districts in an attempt to secure a certain kind of election result".

Creates the World Assembly Boundary Commission or WABC

Nothing to do with the committee is necessary given you've banned the act. Don't create unnecessary WA bureaucracy.

Suggests that member states implement independent districting commissions to set all electoral districts

Independent from what?

Instructs the to Organization for Electoral Assistance (OEA) monitor all member states, their districting commissions, and WABC.

Don't create two committees when you don't need any.