“Yes, but its also dead. Are you seriously proposing granting personhood to a corpse?”
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by Ardiveds » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:30 am
by South St Maarten » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:31 am
Tinhampton wrote:You have still not sorted out Ara's concerns regarding "in no means," "a ceremonial manor," or "a single nationality"
by South St Maarten » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:32 am
by Kenmoria » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:42 am
by South St Maarten » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:12 am
Kenmoria wrote:“Why only ‘mother’ in clause 3? I can’t see a compelling reason for nationality to be matrilineal, rather than passed equally down both or a choice of one of the parents.”
by South St Maarten » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:46 am
by Corporal Newkirk » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:28 am
by South St Maarten » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:33 am
Corporal Newkirk wrote:Hi i read this thread and I can't figure out why you are makeing another resolution to reduce statelessness when the World Assembly already has one?
by Old Hope » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:59 am
Imperium Anglorum wrote:The format wars are a waste of time.
by South St Maarten » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:36 am
Old Hope wrote:There are serious issues with this.
What happens if...
1.The identity of the mother is unknown to the state(s).
2.The child is born to a refugee from a non-member nation that does not recognize citizienship
3.The mother of the child is stateless.
If you always have to assign citizenship of the mother then people could end up with many citizienships. This is not really good - each citizienship carries obligations with it.
by South St Maarten » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:56 am
by Kenmoria » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:53 pm
Old Hope wrote:Why is it so important that people have to have citizienship in a member nation at all?
by Old Hope » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:19 pm
Kenmoria wrote:Old Hope wrote:Why is it so important that people have to have citizienship in a member nation at all?
(OOC: Here are some relevant sources: 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, which appeared in a quick Google search. The GA previously acknowledged the problem of statelessness in GA #386 Reducing Statelessness.)
Imperium Anglorum wrote:The format wars are a waste of time.
by Separatist Peoples » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:19 pm
Old Hope wrote:
Yes, but COCR says:Article 1.
a ) All inhabitants of member states are equal in status in law and under its actions, and have the right to equal treatment and protection by the nation they inhabit or in which they are currently present.
by Wallenburg » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:22 pm
by Old Hope » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:27 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Old Hope wrote:Yes, but COCR says:Article 1.
a ) All inhabitants of member states are equal in status in law and under its actions, and have the right to equal treatment and protection by the nation they inhabit or in which they are currently present.
OOC: The right to equal treatment under the law has never, ever been interpreted to give noncitizens the same rights. It means you cannot treat similarly situated people differently. A system where somebody has no citizenship leaves them potentially unable to participate fully in society without the member state ever violating CoCR.
Imperium Anglorum wrote:The format wars are a waste of time.
by Crabaiaia » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:29 pm
NEWS: Draft Abolished. Chanist Football League postponed until rosters are finalized. Protests at an all-time low. Current IC weather: Windy 7.5℃
by Kenmoria » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:33 am
Crabaiaia wrote:I have a problem with this: what if the child is born in a dicatorship but the parents are citizens of a democracy?
by Separatist Peoples » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:02 am
Old Hope wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: The right to equal treatment under the law has never, ever been interpreted to give noncitizens the same rights. It means you cannot treat similarly situated people differently. A system where somebody has no citizenship leaves them potentially unable to participate fully in society without the member state ever violating CoCR.
You are ignoring the first part of the sentence. "equal in status in law"
by South St Maarten » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:27 am
Wallenburg wrote:"We--no, I will not stand for this body to tell its member states who is and isn't a citizen of their nations. Burn it all, you may as well tell us to abolish our work councils and legislatures as well. Wallenburgians must be born of Wallenburgian blood. What dirt you happened to fall on is of no relevance to the nation to which your family belongs. Gerald, find some suitably violent way to destroy this draft copy. I'm going to go find some tea."
Ogenbond stands up and storms off just as quickly as he seemed to appear.
Crabaiaia wrote:I have a problem with this: what if the child is born in a dicatorship but the parents are citizens of a democracy?
Separatist Peoples wrote:Old Hope wrote:Yes, but COCR says:Article 1.
a ) All inhabitants of member states are equal in status in law and under its actions, and have the right to equal treatment and protection by the nation they inhabit or in which they are currently present.
OOC: The right to equal treatment under the law has never, ever been interpreted to give noncitizens the same rights. It means you cannot treat similarly situated people differently. A system where somebody has no citizenship leaves them potentially unable to participate fully in society without the member state ever violating CoCR.
by South St Maarten » Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:32 am
South St Maarten wrote:Wallenburg wrote:"We--no, I will not stand for this body to tell its member states who is and isn't a citizen of their nations. Burn it all, you may as well tell us to abolish our work councils and legislatures as well. Wallenburgians must be born of Wallenburgian blood. What dirt you happened to fall on is of no relevance to the nation to which your family belongs. Gerald, find some suitably violent way to destroy this draft copy. I'm going to go find some tea."
Ogenbond stands up and storms off just as quickly as he seemed to appear.
IC: Ambassador, you do understand that this act uses jus sanguis, not jus soli, as the basis for citizenship. jus soli is simply an add-on for nations who think that their dirt is important enough to make a person born on it worthy of citizenship. If this were to pass, Wallenburg, as a nation, you would be required to follow only jus sanguis, so, Wallenburgians must be born of Wallenburgian blood anyway. This is what you wanted in the first place!Crabaiaia wrote:I have a problem with this: what if the child is born in a dicatorship but the parents are citizens of a democracy?
As Kenmoria stated, by default such child would be born a citizen of a democracy and then if a dictatorship would also institute jus soli they would become a child of the dictatorship, too. Conversely, if the child is born in a democracy and the parents are citizens of a dictatorship, the child would be born a citizen of the dictatorship, unless of course the democracy also institutes jus soli. I lament such circumstances, but alas, they are inevitable.Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: The right to equal treatment under the law has never, ever been interpreted to give noncitizens the same rights. It means you cannot treat similarly situated people differently. A system where somebody has no citizenship leaves them potentially unable to participate fully in society without the member state ever violating CoCR.
SP is absolutely right. Are you implying that I, let us say as a Norwegian, can move to the United States and immediately vote for president? Am I to move to Austria and immediately try to become Chancellor? There is a reason for the difference of citizen's rights and overall equal treatment under the law.
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Also, fourth draft hopefully later today.
by Boston Castle » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:48 pm
by South St Maarten » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:17 am
Boston Castle wrote:“Just a thought, Ambassador, but have you considered moving clause 8 to become the new clause 5? And then basically working the kinks out from moving those around from there? I think clause 8 is rather oddly placed in the grand scheme of this proposal.”
by South St Maarten » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:19 am
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