[ABANDONED] Repeal "Access to Abortion"

[Picairn]

“You are all concerned about your economies! What nonsense! We have a terrible economy, no investment, and massive deficit, but if we want something built, all we need is a purge to get some forced labour inmates!”

"Ambassador, wasn't forced labor outlawed under Clause 7, Section Prohibits of GAR #500?"

[Godular]

"I feel it necessary to note that a repeal of 499 has managed the surprising feat of being legal, and is presently in the approval stage. I believe it also to be quite telling that over the span of the two-and-two-thirds of a day it has been up... it has gotten a mere ten approvals. I do not see much hope for it, at this juncture. I also do not see much hope for this repeal."

[Old Hope]

"I feel it necessary to note that a repeal of 499 has managed the surprising feat of being legal, and is presently in the approval stage. I believe it also to be quite telling that over the span of the two-and-two-thirds of a day it has been up... it has gotten a mere ten approvals. I do not see much hope for it, at this juncture. I also do not see much hope for this repeal."

OOC: Looks like a lack of WA telegram usage to me.

[Godular]

"I feel it necessary to note that a repeal of 499 has managed the surprising feat of being legal, and is presently in the approval stage. I believe it also to be quite telling that over the span of the two-and-two-thirds of a day it has been up... it has gotten a mere ten approvals. I do not see much hope for it, at this juncture. I also do not see much hope for this repeal."

OOC: Looks like a lack of WA telegram usage to me.

OOC: Mayhap. It may also be due to the fact that they didn't try drafting the damn thing first. I'm not particularly certain on the matter, but I think the disturbed clause of that proposal constitutes an honest mistake... but that proposal is not the subject of this thread, so I shan't proceed further.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

The Holy Empire is in full support of what can only be called a glorious resolution. As Holy Emperor Francis has said, the World Assembly must rethink its position on abotion "for at stake is the dignity of a human life, which is always sacred and demands love for each person, regardless of his or her stage of development" (Gaudete et exsultate, 2018).

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

[Godular]

The Holy Empire is in full support of what can only be called a glorious resolution. As Holy Emperor Francis has said, the World Assembly must rethink its position on abotion "for at stake is the dignity of a human life, which is always sacred and demands love for each person, regardless of his or her stage of development" (Gaudete et exsultate, 2018).

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

“But to hell with those wimmenfolk, eh? Who cares about their dignity, amirite?

“Eugh... even when I’m being blatantly sarcastic that kind of talk makes me feel dirty. Look pal, given the sheer volume of repeal attempts on this and previous legislation on the subject, the World Assembly can most assuredly state that it has given substantial consideration on the subject. Would that you could do the same.”

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

The Holy Empire is in full support of what can only be called a glorious resolution. As Holy Emperor Francis has said, the World Assembly must rethink its position on abotion "for at stake is the dignity of a human life, which is always sacred and demands love for each person, regardless of his or her stage of development" (Gaudete et exsultate, 2018).

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

“But to hell with those wimmenfolk, eh? Who cares about their dignity, amirite?

“Eugh... even when I’m being blatantly sarcastic that kind of talk makes me feel dirty. Look pal, given the sheer volume of repeal attempts on this and previous legislation on the subject, the World Assembly can most assuredly state that it has given substantial consideration on the subject. Would that you could do the same.”

The Ambassador of Godular may be interested in a basic course on diplomatic custom. In addition, its argumentum ad populum is laughable.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

[Riverpost]

“But to hell with those wimmenfolk, eh? Who cares about their dignity, amirite?

“Eugh... even when I’m being blatantly sarcastic that kind of talk makes me feel dirty. Look pal, given the sheer volume of repeal attempts on this and previous legislation on the subject, the World Assembly can most assuredly state that it has given substantial consideration on the subject. Would that you could do the same.”

The Ambassador of Godular may be interested in a basic course on diplomatic custom. In addition, its argumentum ad populum is laughable.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

"I am not well versed in your religion's sainthood and the deeds which provide it, Mr. Majella, but if it is something meaningfully given then there is no better person to come with a solution to the question of giving all a chance on the largest mortal stage in existence. You must understand that the 'Access to Abortion' debate never had two truly diverging sides - just perceived ones - so I encourage you read the transcripts available to your delegation on what was discussed on the resolution in question and perhaps begin work on a resolution which can grow from that seedy pit of long-winded speeches and rants. I believe the main concern of those who downplay people as yourself has not been that the followers of religion follow, but that they only rarely seem to ever assertively act. Is it not what distinguishes your holy figure: world-changing actions and individualism through what they believed in? What good is a person of their faith if they do not have conviction in it - just as a politician to their party or a lord to their king?

If you will not do something you see right for all sapient beings, act for your people; who suffer under the sanctions of non-compliance in a voluntary organization with a known pro-abortion mandate. To do nothing is to suggest your government is fine with having ever applied, since exiting at any point will present further burdens of international law solely to the choice of your people."

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

The Ambassador of Godular may be interested in a basic course on diplomatic custom. In addition, its argumentum ad populum is laughable.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

"I am not well versed in your religion's sainthood and the deeds which provide it, Mr. Majella, but if it is something meaningfully given then there is no better person to come with a solution to the question of giving all a chance on the largest mortal stage in existence. You must understand that the 'Access to Abortion' debate never had two truly diverging sides - just perceived ones - so I encourage you read the transcripts available to your delegation on what was discussed on the resolution in question and perhaps begin work on a resolution which can grow from that seedy pit of long-winded speeches and rants. I believe the main concern of those who downplay people as yourself has not been that the followers of religion follow, but that they only rarely seem to ever assertively act. Is it not what distinguishes your holy figure: world-changing actions and individualism through what they believed in? What good is a person of their faith if they do not have conviction in it - just as a politician to their party or a lord to their king?

If you will not do something you see right for all sapient beings, act for your people; who suffer under the sanctions of non-compliance in a voluntary organization with a known pro-abortion mandate. To do nothing is to suggest your government is fine with having ever applied, since exiting at any point will present further burdens of international law solely to the choice of your people."

The Holy Empire is unaware of any international sanctions against it or its people. Perhaps the Ambassador should read the Holy See's declaration on the matter.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

[Empirical Switzerland]

You have my full support!

[Riverpost]

"I am not well versed in your religion's sainthood and the deeds which provide it, Mr. Majella, but if it is something meaningfully given then there is no better person to come with a solution to the question of giving all a chance on the largest mortal stage in existence. You must understand that the 'Access to Abortion' debate never had two truly diverging sides - just perceived ones - so I encourage you read the transcripts available to your delegation on what was discussed on the resolution in question and perhaps begin work on a resolution which can grow from that seedy pit of long-winded speeches and rants. I believe the main concern of those who downplay people as yourself has not been that the followers of religion follow, but that they only rarely seem to ever assertively act. Is it not what distinguishes your holy figure: world-changing actions and individualism through what they believed in? What good is a person of their faith if they do not have conviction in it - just as a politician to their party or a lord to their king?

If you will not do something you see right for all sapient beings, act for your people; who suffer under the sanctions of non-compliance in a voluntary organization with a known pro-abortion mandate. To do nothing is to suggest your government is fine with having ever applied, since exiting at any point will present further burdens of international law solely to the choice of your people."

The Holy Empire is unaware of any international sanctions against it or its people. Perhaps the Ambassador should read the Holy See's declaration on the matter.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

"Mr. Majella, have you read the Administrative Compliance Act, #GAR440? I have read your country's declaration, but there is a method of legal hearings to consider and impose fines upon non-compliant nations according to the severity of their actions, religion aside. Whether these are purely ticketed or implemented through other means if a nation simply refuses to pay, I am not sure. If you dislike the resolution, you are more than welcome to make a piece arguing its repeal, especially if you feel it impedes a legitimate freedom of your people, an existing WA law, or is simply too harsh."

OOC: https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1

[Godular]

“But to hell with those wimmenfolk, eh? Who cares about their dignity, amirite?

“Eugh... even when I’m being blatantly sarcastic that kind of talk makes me feel dirty. Look pal, given the sheer volume of repeal attempts on this and previous legislation on the subject, the World Assembly can most assuredly state that it has given substantial consideration on the subject. Would that you could do the same.”

The Ambassador of Godular may be interested in a basic course on diplomatic custom. In addition, its argumentum ad populum is laughable.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

"The honorable ambassador would be cautioned to educate themselves better on argumentation if they cannot distinguish between argumentum ad populum and the usage of precedent to establish correlation.

"Also, I'm certain your holy see would have no issue with assembly inspectors occasionally popping in to check for proper compliance, elsewise I suspect your government of passing false witness. I would swear that is a sin."

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

The Holy Empire is unaware of any international sanctions against it or its people. Perhaps the Ambassador should read the Holy See's declaration on the matter.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

"Mr. Majella, have you read the Administrative Compliance Act, #GAR440? I have read your country's declaration, but there is a method of legal hearings to consider and impose fines upon non-compliant nations according to the severity of their actions, religion aside. Whether these are purely ticketed or implemented through other means if a nation simply refuses to pay, I am not sure. If you dislike the resolution, you are more than welcome to make a piece arguing its repeal, especially if you feel it impedes a legitimate freedom of your people, an existing WA law, or is simply too harsh."

OOC: https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1

OOC: I am well aware of 440.

The Ambassador of Godular may be interested in a basic course on diplomatic custom. In addition, its argumentum ad populum is laughable.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

"The honorable ambassador would be cautioned to educate themselves better on argumentation if they cannot distinguish between argumentum ad populum and the usage of precedent to establish correlation.

"Also, I'm certain your holy see would have no issue with assembly inspectors occasionally popping in to check for proper compliance, elsewise I suspect your government of passing false witness. I would swear that is a sin."

OOC: Considering the government doesn't confirm nor deny the allegations, it can not lie, for it presents nothing it claims is the truth. Your last sentence implied our country had not considered the issue substantially enough, given it disagrees with the WA, which purportedly has considered this issue substiantially; in so doing, it presented an argumentum ad populum, because it implied the truthfulness of a proposition based on the votes held by the WA. But the logical fallacies of the Godular ambassador are not a matter that needs extended debate here.

[Godular]

"Mr. Majella, have you read the Administrative Compliance Act, #GAR440? I have read your country's declaration, but there is a method of legal hearings to consider and impose fines upon non-compliant nations according to the severity of their actions, religion aside. Whether these are purely ticketed or implemented through other means if a nation simply refuses to pay, I am not sure. If you dislike the resolution, you are more than welcome to make a piece arguing its repeal, especially if you feel it impedes a legitimate freedom of your people, an existing WA law, or is simply too harsh."

OOC: https://www.nationstates.net/page=WA_pa ... /council=1

OOC: I am well aware of 440.

"The honorable ambassador would be cautioned to educate themselves better on argumentation if they cannot distinguish between argumentum ad populum and the usage of precedent to establish correlation.

"Also, I'm certain your holy see would have no issue with assembly inspectors occasionally popping in to check for proper compliance, elsewise I suspect your government of passing false witness. I would swear that is a sin."

OOC: Considering the government doesn't confirm nor deny the allegations, it can not lie, for it presents nothing it claims is the truth. Your last sentence implied our country had not considered the issue substantially enough, given it disagrees with the WA, which purportedly has considered this issue substiantially; in so doing, it presented an argumentum ad populum, because it implied the truthfulness of a proposition based on the votes held by the WA. But the logical fallacies of the Godular ambassador are not a matter that needs extended debate here.

OOC: No, you are wrong.

I was specifically challenging your in-character claim that the world assembly needs to 'rethink' its position on abortion. I was pointing out that it HAS been repeatedly re-thought, in the form of repeated attempts to repeal reproductive freedoms in particular, and now Access to Abortion, and the prognosis for any and all such attempts has always been 'grim' in the most generous of senses. That is not an argument from popularity. I spoke nothing of 'how many people' say blah-dee-blah, I'm pointing out that standing precedent places any hope of affecting a change by telling the rest of the World Assembly that it needs to reconsider the issue in much the same vein as thinking that maybe just maybe one or two more headbutts will break through that brick wall.

I would suggest that you avoid attempting to further double-down on your glaring miscomprehension.

Also: in-character forum. If you want to argue OOC about abortion... You're welcome to do so here.

[Attempted Socialism]

“But to hell with those wimmenfolk, eh? Who cares about their dignity, amirite?

“Eugh... even when I’m being blatantly sarcastic that kind of talk makes me feel dirty. Look pal, given the sheer volume of repeal attempts on this and previous legislation on the subject, the World Assembly can most assuredly state that it has given substantial consideration on the subject. Would that you could do the same.”

The Ambassador of Godular may be interested in a basic course on diplomatic custom. In addition, its argumentum ad populum is laughable.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

OOC: You're RP'ing a group of criminals in direct contradiction with WA law and in a way that would destroy the state cohesion. I'm not opposed to people RP'ing jokes or what is essentially a policy-statement, but you can't actually expect us to take that serious at all times. Your nation, IC, has legalised abortions because it IC exists as a WA member. If you want to RP psychotic characters who essentially have left the real world behind, be my guest. IC they don't and won't exist.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

The Ambassador of Godular may be interested in a basic course on diplomatic custom. In addition, its argumentum ad populum is laughable.

--Saint Gerard Majella, C.Ss.R., patron of pregnant women and unborn children
Senior consuasor ad Sancti Imperium

OOC: You're RP'ing a group of criminals in direct contradiction with WA law and in a way that would destroy the state cohesion. I'm not opposed to people RP'ing jokes or what is essentially a policy-statement, but you can't actually expect us to take that serious at all times. Your nation, IC, has legalised abortions because it IC exists as a WA member. If you want to RP psychotic characters who essentially have left the real world behind, be my guest. IC they don't and won't exist.

OOC: Still not sure where you and others got the impression my nation is in noncompliance.

-snip-

OOC: Interestingly enough you do not address the "last sentence" I specifically referred to above. Well, shrugs.

[Godular]

OOC: Interestingly enough you do not address the "last sentence" I specifically referred to above. Well, shrugs.

OOC: I do not need to. Your interpretation of it was wrong, and was therefore addressed in the bulk of my previous comment. Zodiac does not give a shit whether your nation 'thought about it' and in point of fact made no claims about such a thing. That last sentence was rather specifically targeted at the rather heavy implication of creative noncompliance you were making. If I read that particular factbook entry incorrectly, then I do apologize on that particular front... but I do not think I misread it.

The simple point I was making REGARDING it was that IF you were in noncompliance, we'd be able to find out about it.

[Pope Saint Peter the Apostle]

OOC: Interestingly enough you do not address the "last sentence" I specifically referred to above. Well, shrugs.

OOC: I do not need to. Your interpretation of it was wrong, and was therefore addressed in the bulk of my previous comment. Zodiac does not give a shit whether your nation 'thought about it' and in point of fact made no claims about such a thing. That last sentence was rather specifically targeted at the rather heavy implication of creative noncompliance you were making. If I read that particular factbook entry incorrectly, then I do apologize on that particular front... but I do not think I misread it.

The simple point I was making REGARDING it was that IF you were in noncompliance, we'd be able to find out about it.

OOC: This is getting off-topic. Anyway, as a final comment, it seems to me that the factbook clearly states the government does not comment on questions w/r/t noncompliance, and that nations - like Attempted Socialism - that imply they have evidence of noncompliance are to address those in the manner outlined in 440. It neither confirms nor deny allegations of noncompliance.

[Godular]

OOC: I do not need to. Your interpretation of it was wrong, and was therefore addressed in the bulk of my previous comment. Zodiac does not give a shit whether your nation 'thought about it' and in point of fact made no claims about such a thing. That last sentence was rather specifically targeted at the rather heavy implication of creative noncompliance you were making. If I read that particular factbook entry incorrectly, then I do apologize on that particular front... but I do not think I misread it.

The simple point I was making REGARDING it was that IF you were in noncompliance, we'd be able to find out about it.

OOC: This is getting off-topic. Anyway, as a final comment, it seems to me that the factbook clearly states the government does not comment on questions w/r/t noncompliance, and that nations - like Attempted Socialism - that imply they have evidence of noncompliance are to address those in the manner outlined in 440. It neither confirms nor deny allegations of noncompliance.

OOC: Whether it confirms or denies it is not functionally relevant. If a nation IS out of compliance, it is getting sanctioned. Simple as.

Anyway, hopefully back to the topic.

[Amuarita]

Ambassador Jackson enters

"This law is disgusting, and it violates our own national laws which prohibit abortion. My nation is fully in support of this repeal."

[Picairn]

"I am eternally amused at new Ambassadors who think that legalising abortion started with Resolution #499 "Access to Abortion", but not "On Abortion" or "Reproductive Freedoms".

[Amuarita]

"I am eternally amused at new Ambassadors who think that legalising abortion started with Resolution #499 "Access to Abortion", but not "On Abortion" or "Reproductive Freedoms".

"My nation wasn't a part of this... institution until recently."

[Ardiveds]

"I am eternally amused at new Ambassadors who think that legalising abortion started with Resolution #499 "Access to Abortion", but not "On Abortion" or "Reproductive Freedoms".

"My nation wasn't a part of this... institution until recently."

"And you didn't bother to read the passed resolutions after you joined? They do apply to your nation, ambassador. Actually did you read the resolution this proposal is attempting to repeal?"

[Godular]

"I am eternally amused at new Ambassadors who think that legalising abortion started with Resolution #499 "Access to Abortion", but not "On Abortion" or "Reproductive Freedoms".

"My nation wasn't a part of this... institution until recently."

"Ahhh, ignorance is bliss, isn't it? Interspersed with a LARGE number of unpleasant surprises."

[Attempted Socialism]

Ambassador Jackson enters

"This law is disgusting, and it violates our own national laws which prohibit abortion. My nation is fully in support of this repeal."

"You are mistaken if you think World Assembly law can violate your national law; rather, it is the other way around. Your law violates World Assembly law. Your leaders are, apparently, criminals and are subject to harsh sanctions."

OOC: You're RP'ing a group of criminals in direct contradiction with WA law and in a way that would destroy the state cohesion. I'm not opposed to people RP'ing jokes or what is essentially a policy-statement, but you can't actually expect us to take that serious at all times. Your nation, IC, has legalised abortions because it IC exists as a WA member. If you want to RP psychotic characters who essentially have left the real world behind, be my guest. IC they don't and won't exist.

OOC: Still not sure where you and others got the impression my nation is in noncompliance.

You're trying to be too cute about it. "We won't comment (because it's obvious how we're noncompliant)" is not a serious defence. Your actions speak loud enough on this one, though all your screaming to the rooftops helped a bit as well.