by Gremenia » Wed May 06, 2020 8:13 am
by The New Sicilian State » Wed May 06, 2020 8:38 am
by Gremenia » Wed May 06, 2020 8:39 am
The New Sicilian State wrote:OOC: Plagiarism notwithstanding (You should look to change that as soon as possible), take a look at this thread. Concrete Slab made a thread for your proposal since you neglected to draft it here first. You'll find quite a bit of constructive criticism there.
Stay awhile; this is a promising idea, but it needs work and (more importantly) time.
by Barfleur » Wed May 06, 2020 11:19 am
Gremenia wrote:
Category: Regulation. Area of Effect: Consumer Protection
RECOGNIZES that wet markets across the globe may partake in the trade of live animals and wild and exotic animals, exposing the world population to dangerous infectious disease.
WORRIES that the trade of live animals and wild and exotic animals in wet markets can spark new global pandemics.
THE WORLD ASSEMBLY:
1. DEFINES:
a. "wet market" as a marketplace selling fresh meat, fish, produce, and other perishable goods as distinguished from "dry markets" that sell durable goods such as fabrics and electronics.
b. "wild and exotic animals" as products that are derived from non-domesticated animals or plants usually extracted from their natural environment or raised under controlled conditions.
c. "live animals" as all living animals including hatching eggs.
d. "zoonotic diseases (zoonosis)" as an infectious disease caused by a pathogen (an infectious agent, including bacteria, viruses, parasites, prions, etc) that has jumped from non-human animals (usually vertebrates) to humans.
e. "game" as animals like (1) small birds, such as the thrush and quail; (2) game proper, a category that can be subdivided into winged game, such as the goose, duck, woodcock, grouse or partridge, and pheasant; and ground game, such as the squirrel, hare, and rabbit; (3) big game, predominantly venison, including roebuck, deer, elk, moose, and caribou but also including other large animals such as bear and wild boar.
2. ACKNOWLEDGES:
a. the existence of wet markets, a majority of which do not trade in live animals and wild or exotic animals and that those markets which do trade in live animals and wild and exotic animals can be linked to outbreaks of zoonotic diseases.
b. illegal wildlife trade is widespread and constitutes one of the major illegal economic activities, comparable to the traffic of drugs and weapons affecting conservation and leading to the emergence and spread of new infectious diseases in humans, including emergent viruses.
3. PERMITS:
a. the sale of fish products not deemed endangered or dangerous for human consumption.
b. The sale of vegetables, fruits, or plants not deemed endangered or dangerous for human consumption.
c. The sale of domesticated slaughtered animals deemed safe for human consumption.
d. the sale of slaughtered game, deemed safe for human consumption and not endangered.
4. PROHIBITS:
a. the trade of wild and exotic animals, alive or deceased, and any parts of those animals including skins, bones, and meat and other products in wet markets.
b. the trade of live animals in wet markets.
5. MANDATES:
a. wet markets do not partake in the trade or sale of live animals and wild and exotic animals, and all products sold are deemed safe for human consumption and are not known to cause zoonotic diseases.
b. wet markets use modern and proper sanitation and food storage methods to minimize the risk of disease.
c. that member nations shall each establish national standards jointly with the World Assembly Commission on which animals and products are deemed safe for sale and human consumption.
6. ENSURES the health and safety of consumers shall not be compromised at wet markets due to exposure to live animals and wild and exotic animals or due to improper sanitation and food storage.
7. OBLIGES member nations to provide oversight of wet markets and the sale of any products within these markets beyond that exercised by the direct management of these markets.
by Araraukar » Wed May 06, 2020 11:26 am
Barfleur wrote:Your first order of business is to scrap these plagiarized definitions and replace them with original definitions. Here are some recommendations, which you are free to use:
a. "wet market" as a physical market wherein items intended for consumption are sold or traded
b. "wild and exotic animals" as animals which have not been domesticated by any sapient species, or which are not commonly found in a given area
c. "live animals" as including eggs in addition to animals which are alive
d. "zoonosis" as the process by which a pathogen present in an animal of a certain species infects an animal of a different species
e. "game" as any animal which is raised or hunted with the purpose of providing food
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Kenmoria » Wed May 06, 2020 12:15 pm
by Barfleur » Wed May 06, 2020 1:33 pm
Araraukar wrote:Barfleur wrote:Your first order of business is to scrap these plagiarized definitions and replace them with original definitions. Here are some recommendations, which you are free to use:
a. "wet market" as a physical market wherein items intended for consumption are sold or traded
OOC: Bad advice as it doesn't solve the original issue which is "what counts as a marketplace/market"? Is a shop a market? (Many RL shops actually have "market" or similar in their name.) If so, this affects every single grocery store everywhere. And what of places that sell both perishable and non-perishable goods?
b. "wild and exotic animals" as animals which have not been domesticated by any sapient species, or which are not commonly found in a given area
Again, does not help the issue with pet ownership and petshops. Tropical fish, for example, such as are kept in people's aquariums as pets, are generally speaking not domesticated (that's a very specific process, not just "animals that would starve if I didn't feed them") but they usually are exotic. Same applies to most birds, reptiles and amphibians sold as pets. Budgies are indigenous to Australia, yet they're a world-wide pet species.
And this loops back to the issue of "what is a market?" If a person is selling off the baby snakes that their own adult snakes produced, is their home now a wet market?
c. "live animals" as including eggs in addition to animals which are alive
Honestly, "live animals" is a dictionary definition and doesn't need defining. If you want to include eggs, then I suggest making a more generic term and adding eggs to it. And what of eggs that you don't know if they're fertilized or not? Non-fertilized eggs are never going to turn into baby animals, so are they food or animals?
d. "zoonosis" as the process by which a pathogen present in an animal of a certain species infects an animal of a different species
Bad definition, no cookie. A zoonosis is a disease that crossed from one species to another. Generally speaking from a nonsapient to a sapient.
e. "game" as any animal which is raised or hunted with the purpose of providing food
So domesticated animals are "game" too?
by Gremenia » Wed May 06, 2020 1:48 pm
c. that member nations shall each establish national standards jointly with the World Assembly Commission on which animals and products are deemed safe for sale and human consumption.
by Araraukar » Wed May 06, 2020 3:52 pm
Gremenia wrote:The thing about "game" animals that I am trying to clearly define is that game is generally accepted as a viable food source safe for consumption. This differs from many other wild animals that aren't safe to consume. For example, the difference between duck or bush meat from chimpanzees that carry ebola.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Gremenia » Wed May 06, 2020 7:16 pm
Araraukar wrote:Gremenia wrote:The thing about "game" animals that I am trying to clearly define is that game is generally accepted as a viable food source safe for consumption. This differs from many other wild animals that aren't safe to consume. For example, the difference between duck or bush meat from chimpanzees that carry ebola.
OOC: What if the duck has salmonella? Or bird flu? Or if the chimpanzee is perfectly healthy?
I get what you're trying to do, but you're going at it entirely the wrong way around. You see a problem and decide to ban everything. It's like solving the problem of traffic deaths due to speeding limit violations by banning all cars, while a more sane solution would be to mandate speed limiters in all cars manufactured or sold in the WA area. (That example used because EU actually has that thing in effect.)
What you SHOULD do, is read the resolution about food safety (possibly named Food and Drug Safety or something similar), then think what parts of this that doesn't cover, and then focus on those.
For example, you want to prevent sick animals getting other animals and people sick in large marketplaces? Ban the sale of sick animals. Make people selling animals that turn out to be sick with something they can spread, criminally responsible for the spreading of the disease. Require live animals to be handled, stored and displayed so that they cannot easily pass pathogens from one to another. All of these would be more sensible ways of tackling the problem of health safety than any kind of blanket ban that doesn't really address the problem.
by Araraukar » Thu May 07, 2020 7:55 am
Gremenia wrote:By banning live animals from wet markets where animal products are sold for consumption, you lower a lot of risk of the spread of disease.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Gremenia » Thu May 07, 2020 11:34 am
Araraukar wrote:Gremenia wrote:By banning live animals from wet markets where animal products are sold for consumption, you lower a lot of risk of the spread of disease.
OOC: Aside from salmonella and other foodpoisoning bacteria, can you please tell me what diseases you can catch from a lobster or oyster?
Also, are restaurants "wet markets"?
by Kenmoria » Thu May 07, 2020 1:11 pm
(OOC: Your definition of a wet market is ‘a marketplace selling fresh meat, fish, produce, and other perishable goods’. Clearly a restaurant does sell fresh meat and the like, and one of my dictionaries defines a marketplace as a place where buyers and sellers come to exchange goods and money. A restaurant fulfils both of these criteria.)Gremenia wrote:Araraukar wrote:OOC: Aside from salmonella and other foodpoisoning bacteria, can you please tell me what diseases you can catch from a lobster or oyster?
Also, are restaurants "wet markets"?
I’m going to exclude fish and shellfish from this, unless deemed an endangered species.
Also, a restaurant is a restaurant. The definition on wet market is pretty clear.
by Astrobolt » Thu May 07, 2020 1:21 pm
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Your definition of a wet market is ‘a marketplace selling fresh meat, fish, produce, and other perishable goods’. Clearly a restaurant does sell fresh meat and the like, and one of my dictionaries defines a marketplace as a place where buyers and sellers come to exchange goods and money. A restaurant fulfils both of these criteria.)Gremenia wrote:
Also, a restaurant is a restaurant. The definition on wet market is pretty clear.
by Araraukar » Thu May 07, 2020 1:56 pm
Astrobolt wrote:Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Your definition of a wet market is ‘a marketplace selling fresh meat, fish, produce, and other perishable goods’. Clearly a restaurant does sell fresh meat and the like, and one of my dictionaries defines a marketplace as a place where buyers and sellers come to exchange goods and money. A restaurant fulfils both of these criteria.)
If you use the formal definition of a marketplace as defined in economics then this might be an issue. But if you use this definition "an open square or place in a town where markets or public sales are held" (taken from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marketplace) then restaurants don't constitute an open space, and may not be a marketplace.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Kenmoria » Thu May 07, 2020 3:43 pm
Astrobolt wrote:Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Your definition of a wet market is ‘a marketplace selling fresh meat, fish, produce, and other perishable goods’. Clearly a restaurant does sell fresh meat and the like, and one of my dictionaries defines a marketplace as a place where buyers and sellers come to exchange goods and money. A restaurant fulfils both of these criteria.)
If you use the formal definition of a marketplace as defined in economics then this might be an issue. But if you use this definition "an open square or place in a town where markets or public sales are held" (taken from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marketplace) then restaurants don't constitute an open space, and may not be a marketplace.
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