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[DEFEATED] Pedagogical Freedom

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.
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Tinhampton
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[DEFEATED] Pedagogical Freedom

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:52 am

This resolution was at vote between the 20th and 24th of September, 2020.
It was defeated by a margin of 13,879 votes (about 89%) to 1,685 (about 11%).

This proposal has been submitted to the General Assembly Education and Creativity Board.
NOTE: at 1620 BST on the 17th of September 2020, this proposal reached quorum with Goth Cowboys' approval, the 63rd all told.

Character count: 1,334
Word count: 204
IC: Please take up your quibbles with Emma Donovan ("Who says there aren't any born-again evangelicals around here?"), the 18-year-old winner of the 4th Willis Prize, an essay competition offering those in the final year of school an opportunity to intern with Tinhampton's WA Delegation. For all intents and purposes, imagine we're three months ahead of the OOC real world in the Tinhamptonian calendar.
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Pedagogical Freedom
A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts.
Category: Educational and Creativity
Area of Effect: Educational
Proposed by: Tinhampton

Believing that it ought to promote the right of parents to direct their children's education (rather than hindering it, i.e. by requiring homeschoolers to seek teacher supervision or completely outlawing homeschooling), the General Assembly resolves, with immediate effect, that:
  1. Subject to prior and standing international law, member states and their political subdivisions ("members") must respect, in law and in practice:
    1. the right of parents, carers and guardians ("parents") of children to direct and guarantee, with regard to their sincerely-held moral beliefs, the education of their children, and
    2. the right of children to receive a full-time education which is adequate and appropriate to their age and ability.
  2. Members are strongly urged to respect the right of adults to receive an education as described in Article a(ii).
  3. This Compact must not be interpreted to necessarily require members to fully fund or partially subsidise schools; those judgments are reserved to the individual member states.
  4. This Compact must not be interpreted to forbid members from requiring parents to enrol their children into a school, provided that they have a reasonable belief that those parents have failed to guarantee that their children receive an education as described in Article a(ii).
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 7 times in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Maowi
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Postby Maowi » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:16 am

"You may wish to affix to clause a.i. "subject to previous, extant World Assembly legislation", to clarify that you don't intend any "sincerely-held moral beliefs" to take precedence over fundamental educational requirements such as those of GAR #80."
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:20 am

Maowi wrote:"You may wish to affix to clause a.i. "subject to previous, extant World Assembly legislation", to clarify that you don't intend any "sincerely-held moral beliefs" to take precedence over fundamental educational requirements such as those of GAR #80."

Emma Donovan: Erm... ooo-er, to the important somebody over there, such a clause had already been affixed immediately before the operative clauses: "The General Assembly [r]esolves, with immediate effect and subject to prior and standing international law, that..." and so it carries on. Is your concern here vagueness of the subjectivity clause, or is it where it is located?
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Maowi
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Postby Maowi » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:45 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Maowi wrote:"You may wish to affix to clause a.i. "subject to previous, extant World Assembly legislation", to clarify that you don't intend any "sincerely-held moral beliefs" to take precedence over fundamental educational requirements such as those of GAR #80."

Emma Donovan: Erm... ooo-er, to the important somebody over there, such a clause had already been affixed immediately before the operative clauses: "The General Assembly [r]esolves, with immediate effect and subject to prior and standing international law, that..." and so it carries on. Is your concern here vagueness of the subjectivity clause, or is it where it is located?

Feargal wipes his glasses sheepishly. "My apologies, ambassador. Perhaps I should get back into the habit of ... reading ... words. That being said, it does appear to me that extant World Assembly legislation could be better integrated into the proposal (without, of course, relying on it to function). In addition to the qualifier in the "resolves" clause, clause a.ii. could benefit from an addition of the phrase "and fulfills the requirements set by prior and standing international law", or words to that effect, not for that clause in itself but so that clause d. does not put member nations in the difficult position of having to enforce compliance with World Assembly law without being able to take the child's education into their own hands."
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Kyundao
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Postby Kyundao » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:33 am

You have my full support on this.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:00 pm

Donovan: Following some discussion with my colleagues, I have decided to adopt the Maowese amendment in principle. This proposal remains in drafting, with a few changes to the preamble and a slightly shorter title.

OOC 1: title was "Pedagogical Freedoms Compact."
OOC 2: At least in England, homeschoolers are not bound by the National Curriculum - which might partially explain this hesitance =P
Last edited by Tinhampton on Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Willingdon and Jevington
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Founded: Aug 22, 2020
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Postby Willingdon and Jevington » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:33 pm

What an awful resolution. Against.

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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:22 am

"Ambassador, the 'rights' this draft seeks to 'protect', do not exist, and are entirely at-odds with civilized society. It is not the place of a child's parents to 'direct' their education; that is best done by experts in the education and in those fields which are being studied. No parent has any 'right' to deny their children a proper education.

And, moreover, we find the idea that it is the place of parents to 'guarantee' education... absurd. If your Government is incapable of providing its citizens with educational facilities, that is your failing; we will not have this absurdity exported by force. The Imperium guarantees the education of our citizens; it is their absolute right."
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:36 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Character count: 1,334
Word count: 204
IC: Please take up your quibbles with Emma Donovan ("Who says there aren't any born-again evangelicals around here?"), the 18-year-old winner of the 4th Willis Prize, an essay competition offering those in the final year of school an opportunity to intern with Tinhampton's WA Delegation. For all intents and purposes, imagine we're three months ahead of the OOC real world in the Tinhamptonian calendar.
(Image)
Pedagogical Freedom
A resolution to promote funding and the development of education and the arts.
Category: Educational and Creativity
Area of Effect: Educational
Proposed by: Tinhampton

Believing that it ought to promote the right of parents to direct their children's education (rather than hindering it, i.e. by requiring homeschoolers to seek teacher supervision or completely outlawing homeschooling), the General Assembly resolves, with immediate effect, that:
  1. Subject to prior and standing international law, member states and their political subdivisions ("members") must respect, in law and in practice:
    1. the right of parents, carers and guardians ("parents") of children to direct and guarantee, with regard to their sincerely-held moral beliefs, the education of their children, and
    2. the right of children to receive a full-time education which is adequate and appropriate to their age and ability.
  2. Members are strongly urged to respect the right of adults to receive an education as described in Article a(ii).
  3. This Compact must not be interpreted to necessarily require members to fully fund or partially subsidise schools; those judgments are reserved to the individual member states.
  4. This Compact must not be interpreted to forbid members from requiring parents to enrol their children into a school, provided that they have a reasonable belief that those parents have failed to guarantee that their children receive an education as described in Article a(ii).

Strong, unequivocal against.
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Attempted Socialism
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Postby Attempted Socialism » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm

"Parents whose 'moral beliefs' are decidedly anti-ethical or anti-scientific do not need those 'beliefs' protected; rather, the right of the child to a proper education needs protection. Parents who cannot indoctrinate adults into their beliefs should not procreate to get young victims they have total control over. That is reprehensible. There is nothing redeemable in this resolution, and we sincerely hope the relevant Tinhamptonian staffers are sacked."


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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:30 pm

“Strongly against. We oppose the indoctrination of children by fanatical parents.”

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:03 am

“I’m not sure that I can support this. Although the idea looks good in theory, I don’t see how this could work in actuality, due to the concerns raised by the delegation from Attempted Socialism. I do acknowledge clause d as a potential counterargument, but feel that this serves to complicate the mandates rather than address this problem.”
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:20 am

How does this even boost education budgets?
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:32 am

"So what happens if a parent's "moral conviction" is that women should not get an education - presumably to make them controllable somehow - and that contradicts the female child's right to education?"
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:54 pm

Araraukar wrote:"So what happens if a parent's "moral conviction" is that women should not get an education - presumably to make them controllable somehow - and that contradicts the female child's right to education?"

Donovan: If the girl child's right to education is understood to be substantially violated or not provided at all, that would virtually always constitute "a reasonable belief" on behalf of the state that she ought to attend regular schooling.
In regards to what Miss... erm, MacBeth and Lewitt were saying earlier, "the right of the child to a proper education" does get protection through Article a(ii). I wish to remind all of you that the rights in Article a are only protected "subject to prior and standing international law," which does requires homeschoolers to meet the same International Curriculum requirements surrounding a basic education, reproductive education and the natural sciences as regular teachers.

AS OF 2155 BST ON THURSDAY: Approvals: 64 out of 63 needed (Tinhampton, One Small Island, The Palentine, North American Imperial State, Smiley Bob, SFR Philippines, Kor Pantaal, Greater Penrith, Xukong, Cantanasia Objective, Octal, Gumeus, Otaku Stratus, The Antartic Legion, Vedenmark, The Democratic Nation of Unovia, Mikeswill, Bettisia, Ashtie, United Gunland, Dabberwocky, Lacmhacarh, Northern Bucovina, Seven Seas, Plus Nova Imperii, Zentata, Theberstan, The Age of Utopia, Central Protectorate of Alkoholi, Veritatimia, Islands Of Ventro, GoodKingWenceslas, LuckyLippers, Horden, Omniabstracta, New Skandenivia, South Krimelski, Franche Comte, Clytrat, Baccalieu, Sedgistan, People of Phoenix, Folgoria, Candensia, Kustonia, Willtechia, Aredita, Birnir, Ashaie, Belkom, Thembria SSR, Silver-Tree, Therlica, Ameiriqua, Gran Serenissima, Greenkeep, Denathor, Alcycone, AMERICA EUROPE AND SOUTH ASIA, Goathland, Greater Venova, Goth Cowboys, Russia Major, Zombiedolphins)
Last edited by Tinhampton on Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Attempted Socialism
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Attempted Socialism » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:25 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:How does this even boost education budgets?

OOC: I don't see that it does. That would indicate a category violation. I think a challenge should be issued.

Tinhampton wrote:
Araraukar wrote:"So what happens if a parent's "moral conviction" is that women should not get an education - presumably to make them controllable somehow - and that contradicts the female child's right to education?"

Donovan: If the girl child's right to education is understood to be substantially violated or not provided at all, that would virtually always constitute "a reasonable belief" on behalf of the state that she ought to attend regular schooling.
In regards to what Miss... erm, MacBeth and Lewitt were saying earlier, "the right of the child to a proper education" does get protection through Article a(ii). I wish to remind all of you that the rights in Article a are only protected "subject to prior and standing international law," which does requires homeschoolers to meet the same International Curriculum requirements surrounding a basic education, reproductive education and the natural sciences as regular teachers.

"You are either disingenuous or shooting your own proposal in the foot. Since homeschoolers cannot provide the same basic education, and since their amoral beliefs are what induces them to victimise their children -- such as the mindnumbing practise of childhood religion -- a(ii) is either the loophole to still have homeschooling outlawed or it does not work as advertsied. It cannot do both. The lack of proper drafting is showing."


Represented in the World Assembly by Ambassador Robert Mortimer Pride, called The Regicide
Assume OOC unless otherwise indicated. My WA Authorship.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:37 pm

Donovan: Resolution number eighty requires that particular subjects be taught to "all citizens," without specifying how and regardless of whether they are being homeschooled or taught in a regular school. Resolution three-hundred and sixty-nine requires that reproductive education be taught in all "general education service[s]," a definition which I am fairly confident a homeschool would fall under. Please can anybody in this chamber explain to me how these requirements can never be met in homeschooling but are invariably complied with in all normal schools, regardless of the quality of education or behaviour of pupils in either setting?
Last edited by Tinhampton on Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Tinhampton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:41 pm

Donovan: My challenge to all delegates in relation to the alleged insufficiency of homeschooling remains. This proposal will shortly--in about twenty minutes, this is going to come to vote for four days.

AS OF 0440 BST ON SUNDAY: Approvals: 68 out of 62 needed (Tinhampton, One Small Island, The Palentine, North American Imperial State, Smiley Bob, SFR Philippines, Kor Pantaal, Greater Penrith, Xukong, Cantanasia Objective, Octal, Gumeus, Otaku Stratus, The Antartic Legion, The Democratic Nation of Unovia, Mikeswill, Bettisia, Ashtie, United Gunland, Dabberwocky, Lacmhacarh, Northern Bucovina, Seven Seas, Plus Nova Imperii, Zentata, Theberstan, Central Protectorate of Alkoholi, Veritatimia, Islands Of Ventro, GoodKingWenceslas, LuckyLippers, Horden, Omniabstracta, New Skandenivia, South Krimelski, Franche Comte, Clytrat, Baccalieu, Sedgistan, People of Phoenix, Folgoria, Candensia, Kustonia, Willtechia, Aredita, Birnir, Ashaie, Belkom, Thembria SSR, Silver-Tree, Therlica, Ameiriqua, Gran Serenissima, Greenkeep, Denathor, Alcycone, AMERICA EUROPE AND SOUTH ASIA, Goathland, Greater Venova, Goth Cowboys, Russia Major, Zombiedolphins, Libonesia, Indusse, Northwestern Munster, Madison and Wisconsin, Furret Cult, Panther)
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Drewish
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Founded: May 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Drewish » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:13 pm

Ngl kinda sucks if I wanted children to be influenced by their wonky parents I would vote for this.
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New Waldensia
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Waldensia » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:20 pm

Strongly support this measure.
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Refuge Isle
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:00 pm

The WAA Ministry in The East Pacific has issued a recommendation against this resolution to our WA members.

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Havl
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Havl » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:27 pm

I’m struggling to understand Article D.
This Compact must not be interpreted to forbid members from requiring parents to enrol their children into a school, provided that they have a reasonable belief that those parents have failed to guarantee that their children receive an education as described in Article a(ii).

Can someone break it down for me?
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Honeydewistania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:35 pm

Havl wrote:I’m struggling to understand Article D.
This Compact must not be interpreted to forbid members from requiring parents to enrol their children into a school, provided that they have a reasonable belief that those parents have failed to guarantee that their children receive an education as described in Article a(ii).

Can someone break it down for me?

It says that member nations are allowed to force parents to enrol their children’s in a public school if they believe that the parent does not provide an adequate education.
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Tinhampton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:37 pm

Havl wrote:I’m struggling to understand Article D.
This Compact must not be interpreted to forbid members from requiring parents to enrol their children into a school, provided that they have a reasonable belief that those parents have failed to guarantee that their children receive an education as described in Article a(ii).

Can someone break it down for me?

Honeydewistania is broadly correct. A further explanation: Generally, Article a(i) would allow the homeschooling (or unschooling etc.) of children, in allowing parents "to direct and guarantee, with regard to their sincerely-held moral beliefs, the education of their children." This right is qualified by Article a(ii), which requires that children "receive a full-time education which is adequate and appropriate [...]" - which itself must, by definition, fulfil the requirements set out in prior and standing GA law.

If there exists reasonable suspicion that a child in a member state is not in receipt of such an "adequate and appropriate" "full-time" education (i.e. if such an education is not in compliance with the aforementioned GA legislation), then the state may require that child to cease being homeschooled and instead be enrolled into a regular school.
Refuge Isle wrote:The WAA Ministry in The East Pacific has issued a recommendation against this resolution to our WA members.

The rights in Article a are "[s]ubject to prior and standing international law" which all member states must already comply with - especially including GA#80, GA#369 (although I would assume that a homeschool is already a general education service for the purpose of the latter), and GA#475 (assuming a broad reading of Article 1a). Why does TEP's MoWAA believe that this resolution would leave "the state" unable to "impose reasonable education standards" when it would in fact bind homeschoolers to the same International Curriculum requirements, as aforementioned, as those in regular schools?
Last edited by Tinhampton on Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Refuge Isle
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Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:44 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Why does TEP's MoWAA believe that this resolution would leave "the state" unable to "impose reasonable education standards" when it would in fact bind homeschoolers to the same International Curriculum requirements, as aforementioned, as those in regular schools?

Were that the intention of your resolution, I suspect that it would show strong promise on the floor, but this is not the case and the status of the vote reflects this. The WAA Ministry does not find that moral beliefs should have an impact in academic curriculum. Although the text of the resolution demands the right to an education appropriate to age and ability, it speaks nothing to the accuracy of the content. You're intentionally binding the hands of the state when parents find the teaching of certain facts objectionable.

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