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[PASSED] Language and Education Rights For Deaf Individuals

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.
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Morover
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[PASSED] Language and Education Rights For Deaf Individuals

Postby Morover » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:33 pm

Language And Education Rights For Deaf Individuals

Education and Creativity - Cultural Heritage


The World Assembly,

Noting the existence of deaf and hard-of-hearing individuals,

Further noting that these individuals can experience discrimination that are otherwise unknown in a populace of hearing individuals,

Hoping to bring attention to this discrimination, and attempts to relieve it,

And reaffirming that deafness is no more insurmountable than any other natural characteristic which makes an individual unique,

Hereby,

  1. Defines, for the purpose of this resolution:
    1. "deafness" and any linguistic variations thereof as the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language;
    2. "hearing" as the state of not being deaf;
    3. "non-audial language" as any method of communication capable of demonstrating complex thought and having a distinct grammatical structure that does not use verbal or audial speech, especially using gesticulatory motions;
    4. "community of non-hearing individuals" (henceforth known as "CNHI") as any community consisting of deaf individuals and those related to them, with a distinct culture that is centered around the celebration of ones deafness;
    5. "child of a deaf adult" (henceforth known as "CODA") as any individual under the age of majority who is hearing, but is under the primary guardianship of one or more deaf adults;
    6. "school for the deaf" as any school, classroom, or other educational facility which specializes in the education of deaf children, especially using a popular local non-audial language;
  2. Establishes the International Institution of Non-Audial or Sign Languages (henceforth known as "IINASL" as a subcommittee of the World Assembly Language Society, and tasks the IINASL to:
    1. directly work with national and international CNHIs in order to determine modern and historical non-audial languages and create a database of these languages, which shall note the grammatical and linguistic structure of the language, as well as common local and international vernacular variations that have arisen from them;
    2. create easily accessible resources that can help newly-deaf individuals and educators of the deaf to learn or teach these languages;
  3. Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation, which shall be granted the same supplies and resources of other schools in the nation, with alterations made as needed in order to maximize the effectiveness of the education towards the deaf children, with sufficient capacity to hold all deaf children or CODAs that wish to attend them;
    1. Directs member-nations to supply funding, transportation, and housing for deaf students to attend these schools, as well as their families, should the distance or cost of the schools be overly burdensome on the deaf children or their families;
    2. Forbids member-nations from making these schools for the deaf difficult to access, or to put an undue burden on deaf children who will attend it or their families, so as to prevent attendance to these schools;
    3. Recommends that these schools for the deaf use the IINASL database of non-audial languages as an aid in education;
    4. Exempts nations which have no deaf individuals within their nation, but, should deaf individuals become present in the nation, that these schools are to be established in a timely manner;
  4. Requires that schools for the deaf have a class or period which students may opt into which shall teach deaf students how to speak audial languages;
  5. Forbids nations, schools, or other organizations from requiring deaf students to learn how to speak audial languages, unless explicitly opted in to by the relevant deaf student;
  6. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of deaf children to decide where their children will go to school, but strongly urges them to consider sending their deaf children to a school for the deaf;
  7. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of CODAs to determine where their children will go to school, even if they wish for their child to attend a school for the deaf, provided that it does not deprive the CODA of normal lingual development;
  8. Affirms that deafness is not grounds for discrimination, and that deaf individuals are granted the same immunity under national and international laws as hearing individuals;
    1. Clarifying, however, that in a setting of employment, employers may decide that a deaf individual is not suitable for the job at hand, so long as the deafness will provide reasonable threat of physical or psychological harm to either the deaf individual or other people, or where hearing is an absolute necessity for the sake of the job;
  9. Requires national and international announcements and edicts to have either a transcription of the text of the announcement, or a translator present who will translate the text of the announcement into a common locally-known or internationally-known non-audial language.
Last edited by Ransium on Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:15 am, edited 10 times in total.

If you wish to use any of my previous work - be it World Assembly or otherwise - feel free to use it, but I ask that you credit me as a co-author. If the piece credits a non-CTE'd co-author, I ask that you approach them first.
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:33 pm

Drafts:

The World Assembly,

Noting the existence of deaf and hard-of-hearing individuals,

Further noting that these individuals can experience discrimination that are otherwise unknown in a populace of hearing individuals,

Hoping to bring attention to this discrimination, and attempts to relieve it,

And reaffirming that, while many may believe that deafness is an insurmountable disability, it is no more insurmountable than any other natural characteristic which makes an individual unique,

Hereby,

  1. Defines, for the purpose of this resolution:
    1. "deaf" or "deafness" as the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language;
    2. "hearing" as the condition of not being deaf;
    3. "non-audial language" as any method of communication capable of demonstrating complex thought and having a distinct grammatical structure that does not use verbal or audial speech, especially using gesticulatory motions;
    4. "community of non-hearing individuals" (henceforth known as "CNHI") as any community that surrounds deaf individuals and those related to deaf individuals that celebrates their deafness;
    5. "child of a deaf adult" (henceforth known as "CODA") as any individual under the age of majority who is hearing, but is under the primary guardianship of one or more deaf adults;
    6. "school for the deaf" as any school which specializes in the education of deaf children, especially using a popular local non-audial language;
  2. Establishes the International Institution of Non-Audial or Sign Languages (henceforth known as "IINASL" as a subcommittee of the World Assembly Language Society, and tasks the IINASL to:
    1. directly work with national and international CNHIs in order to determine modern and historical non-audial languages and create a database of these languages, which shall note the grammatical and linguistic structure of the language, as well as common local and international vernacular variations that have arisen from them;
    2. create easily accessible resources that can help newly-deaf individuals and educators of the deaf to learn or teach these languages;
  3. Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation;
    1. Affirms that these schools must be granted the same supplies and resources of other schools in the nation;
    2. Instructs member-nations to have these schools for the deaf to be able to hold a capacity of all deaf children or CODAs that wish to attend them;
    3. Directs member-nations to supply funding, transportation, and housing for deaf students to attend these schools, as well as their families, should the distance or cost of the schools be overly burdensome on the deaf children or their families;
    4. Recommends that these schools for the deaf use the IINASL database of non-audial languages as an aid in education;
  4. Requires that schools for the deaf have a class which students may opt into which shall teach deaf students how to speak audial languages;
  5. Forbids nations or schools from requiring deaf students to learn how to speak audial languages;
  6. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of deaf children to decide where their children will go to school, but strongly urges them to consider sending their deaf children to a school for the deaf;
  7. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of CODAs to determine where their children will go to school, even if they wish for their child to attend a school for the deaf;
  8. Affirms that deafness is not grounds for discrimination, and that deaf individuals are granted the same immunity under national and international laws as hearing individuals;
    1. Clarifying, however, that in a setting of employment, employers may decide that a deaf individual is not suitable for the job at hand, so long as the deafness will provide reasonable threat of physical or psychological harm to either the deaf individual or other people, or where hearing is an absolute necessity for the sake of the job;
  9. Requires national and international announcements and edicts to have either a transcription of the text of the announcement, or a translator present who will translate the text of the announcement into a local, well-known non-audial language;

The World Assembly,

Noting the existence of deaf and hard-of-hearing individuals,

Further noting that these individuals can experience discrimination that are otherwise unknown in a populace of hearing individuals,

Hoping to bring attention to this discrimination, and attempts to relieve it,

And reaffirming that, while many may believe that deafness is an insurmountable disability, it is no more insurmountable than any other natural characteristic which makes an individual unique,

Hereby,

  1. Defines, for the purpose of this resolution:
    1. "deafness" and any linguistic variations thereof as the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language;
    2. "hearing" as the state of not being deaf;
    3. "non-audial language" as any method of communication capable of demonstrating complex thought and having a distinct grammatical structure that does not use verbal or audial speech, especially using gesticulatory motions;
    4. "community of non-hearing individuals" (henceforth known as "CNHI") as any community consisting of deaf individuals and those related to them, with a distinct culture that is centered around the celebration of ones deafness;
    5. "child of a deaf adult" (henceforth known as "CODA") as any individual under the age of majority who is hearing, but is under the primary guardianship of one or more deaf adults;
    6. "school for the deaf" as any school which specializes in the education of deaf children, especially using a popular local non-audial language;
  2. Establishes the International Institution of Non-Audial or Sign Languages (henceforth known as "IINASL" as a subcommittee of the World Assembly Language Society, and tasks the IINASL to:
    1. directly work with national and international CNHIs in order to determine modern and historical non-audial languages and create a database of these languages, which shall note the grammatical and linguistic structure of the language, as well as common local and international vernacular variations that have arisen from them;
    2. create easily accessible resources that can help newly-deaf individuals and educators of the deaf to learn or teach these languages;
  3. Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation, which shall be granted the same supplies and resources of other schools in the nation, with alterations made as needed in order to maximize the effectiveness of the education towards the deaf children, with sufficient capacity to hold all deaf children or CODAs that wish to attend them;
    1. Directs member-nations to supply funding, transportation, and housing for deaf students to attend these schools, as well as their families, should the distance or cost of the schools be overly burdensome on the deaf children or their families;
    2. Forbids member-nations from making these schools for the deaf difficult to access, or to put an undue burden on deaf children who will attend it or their families, so as to prevent attendance to these schools;
    3. Recommends that these schools for the deaf use the IINASL database of non-audial languages as an aid in education;
    4. Exempts nations which have no deaf individuals within their nation, but, should deaf individuals become present in the nation, that these schools are to be established in a timely manner;
  4. Requires that schools for the deaf have a class which students may opt into which shall teach deaf students how to speak audial languages;
  5. Forbids nations or schools from requiring deaf students to learn how to speak audial languages;
  6. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of deaf children to decide where their children will go to school, but strongly urges them to consider sending their deaf children to a school for the deaf;
  7. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of CODAs to determine where their children will go to school, even if they wish for their child to attend a school for the deaf;
  8. Affirms that deafness is not grounds for discrimination, and that deaf individuals are granted the same immunity under national and international laws as hearing individuals;
    1. Clarifying, however, that in a setting of employment, employers may decide that a deaf individual is not suitable for the job at hand, so long as the deafness will provide reasonable threat of physical or psychological harm to either the deaf individual or other people, or where hearing is an absolute necessity for the sake of the job;
  9. Requires national and international announcements and edicts to have either a transcription of the text of the announcement, or a translator present who will translate the text of the announcement into a local, well-known non-audial language;

The World Assembly,

Noting the existence of deaf and hard-of-hearing individuals,

Further noting that these individuals can experience discrimination that are otherwise unknown in a populace of hearing individuals,

Hoping to bring attention to this discrimination, and attempts to relieve it,

And reaffirming that, while many may believe that deafness is an insurmountable disability, it is no more insurmountable than any other natural characteristic which makes an individual unique,

Hereby,

  1. Defines, for the purpose of this resolution:
    1. "deafness" and any linguistic variations thereof as the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language;
    2. "hearing" as the state of not being deaf;
    3. "non-audial language" as any method of communication capable of demonstrating complex thought and having a distinct grammatical structure that does not use verbal or audial speech, especially using gesticulatory motions;
    4. "community of non-hearing individuals" (henceforth known as "CNHI") as any community consisting of deaf individuals and those related to them, with a distinct culture that is centered around the celebration of ones deafness;
    5. "child of a deaf adult" (henceforth known as "CODA") as any individual under the age of majority who is hearing, but is under the primary guardianship of one or more deaf adults;
    6. "educational amenity for the deaf" as any school, classroom, or other educational facility which specializes in the education of deaf children, especially using a popular local non-audial language;
  2. Establishes the International Institution of Non-Audial or Sign Languages (henceforth known as "IINASL" as a subcommittee of the World Assembly Language Society, and tasks the IINASL to:
    1. directly work with national and international CNHIs in order to determine modern and historical non-audial languages and create a database of these languages, which shall note the grammatical and linguistic structure of the language, as well as common local and international vernacular variations that have arisen from them;
    2. create easily accessible resources that can help newly-deaf individuals and educators of the deaf to learn or teach these languages;
  3. Requires one or more educational amenity for the deaf to be established in every member-nation, which shall be granted the same supplies and resources of other schools in the nation, with alterations made as needed in order to maximize the effectiveness of the education towards the deaf children, with sufficient capacity to hold all deaf children or CODAs that wish to attend them;
    1. Directs member-nations to supply funding, transportation, and housing for deaf students to attend these educational amenities, as well as their families, should the distance or cost of the schools be overly burdensome on the deaf children or their families;
    2. Forbids member-nations from making these educational amenities for the deaf difficult to access, or to put an undue burden on deaf children who will attend it or their families, so as to prevent attendance to these educational amenities;
    3. Recommends that these educational amenities for the deaf use the IINASL database of non-audial languages as an aid in education;
    4. Exempts nations which have no deaf individuals within their nation, but, should deaf individuals become present in the nation, that these educational amenities are to be established in a timely manner;
  4. Requires that educational amenities for the deaf have a class or period which students may opt into which shall teach deaf students how to speak audial languages;
  5. Forbids nations, educational amenities, or other organizations from requiring deaf students to learn how to speak audial languages;
  6. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of deaf children to decide where their children will go to school, but strongly urges them to consider sending their deaf children to an educational amenity for the deaf;
  7. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of CODAs to determine where their children will go to school, even if they wish for their child to attend an educational amenity for the deaf;
  8. Affirms that deafness is not grounds for discrimination, and that deaf individuals are granted the same immunity under national and international laws as hearing individuals;
    1. Clarifying, however, that in a setting of employment, employers may decide that a deaf individual is not suitable for the job at hand, so long as the deafness will provide reasonable threat of physical or psychological harm to either the deaf individual or other people, or where hearing is an absolute necessity for the sake of the job;
  9. Requires national and international announcements and edicts to have either a transcription of the text of the announcement, or a translator present who will translate the text of the announcement into a local, well-known non-audial language;

The World Assembly,

Noting the existence of deaf and hard-of-hearing individuals,

Further noting that these individuals can experience discrimination that are otherwise unknown in a populace of hearing individuals,

Hoping to bring attention to this discrimination, and attempts to relieve it,

And reaffirming that deafness is no more insurmountable than any other natural characteristic which makes an individual unique,

Hereby,

  1. Defines, for the purpose of this resolution:
    1. "deafness" and any linguistic variations thereof as the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language;
    2. "hearing" as the state of not being deaf;
    3. "non-audial language" as any method of communication capable of demonstrating complex thought and having a distinct grammatical structure that does not use verbal or audial speech, especially using gesticulatory motions;
    4. "community of non-hearing individuals" (henceforth known as "CNHI") as any community consisting of deaf individuals and those related to them, with a distinct culture that is centered around the celebration of ones deafness;
    5. "child of a deaf adult" (henceforth known as "CODA") as any individual under the age of majority who is hearing, but is under the primary guardianship of one or more deaf adults;
    6. "school for the deaf" as any school, classroom, or other educational facility which specializes in the education of deaf children, especially using a popular local non-audial language;
  2. Establishes the International Institution of Non-Audial or Sign Languages (henceforth known as "IINASL" as a subcommittee of the World Assembly Language Society, and tasks the IINASL to:
    1. directly work with national and international CNHIs in order to determine modern and historical non-audial languages and create a database of these languages, which shall note the grammatical and linguistic structure of the language, as well as common local and international vernacular variations that have arisen from them;
    2. create easily accessible resources that can help newly-deaf individuals and educators of the deaf to learn or teach these languages;
  3. Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation, which shall be granted the same supplies and resources of other schools in the nation, with alterations made as needed in order to maximize the effectiveness of the education towards the deaf children, with sufficient capacity to hold all deaf children or CODAs that wish to attend them;
    1. Directs member-nations to supply funding, transportation, and housing for deaf students to attend these schools, as well as their families, should the distance or cost of the schools be overly burdensome on the deaf children or their families;
    2. Forbids member-nations from making these schools for the deaf difficult to access, or to put an undue burden on deaf children who will attend it or their families, so as to prevent attendance to these schools;
    3. Recommends that these schools for the deaf use the IINASL database of non-audial languages as an aid in education;
    4. Exempts nations which have no deaf individuals within their nation, but, should deaf individuals become present in the nation, that these schools are to be established in a timely manner;
  4. Requires that schools for the deaf have a class or period which students may opt into which shall teach deaf students how to speak audial languages;
  5. Forbids nations, schools, or other organizations from requiring deaf students to learn how to speak audial languages, unless explicitly opted in to by the relevant deaf student;
  6. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of deaf children to decide where their children will go to school, but strongly urges them to consider sending their deaf children to a school for the deaf;
  7. Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of CODAs to determine where their children will go to school, even if they wish for their child to attend a school for the deaf, provided that it does not deprive the CODA of normal lingual development;
  8. Affirms that deafness is not grounds for discrimination, and that deaf individuals are granted the same immunity under national and international laws as hearing individuals;
    1. Clarifying, however, that in a setting of employment, employers may decide that a deaf individual is not suitable for the job at hand, so long as the deafness will provide reasonable threat of physical or psychological harm to either the deaf individual or other people, or where hearing is an absolute necessity for the sake of the job;
  9. Requires national and international announcements and edicts to have either a transcription of the text of the announcement, or a translator present who will translate the text of the announcement into a common locally-known or internationally-known non-audial language.
Last edited by Morover on Mon May 25, 2020 4:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

If you wish to use any of my previous work - be it World Assembly or otherwise - feel free to use it, but I ask that you credit me as a co-author. If the piece credits a non-CTE'd co-author, I ask that you approach them first.
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South Reinkalistan
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby South Reinkalistan » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:39 pm

Desket: "Tentative support. I'll critique it later; I'm too preoccupied with my crippling idleness as of this moment."
Last edited by South Reinkalistan on Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:00 pm

Article 6: "parents of deaf children"
Article 7: "parents of CODAs"

Choose one, please
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:08 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Article 6: "parents of deaf children"
Article 7: "parents of CODAs"

Choose one, please

OOC: Why? Deaf children and CODAs are two different things.

If you wish to use any of my previous work - be it World Assembly or otherwise - feel free to use it, but I ask that you credit me as a co-author. If the piece credits a non-CTE'd co-author, I ask that you approach them first.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:17 pm

Morover wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Article 6: "parents of deaf children"
Article 7: "parents of CODAs"

Choose one, please

OOC: Why? Deaf children and CODAs are two different things.

Sorry about that - I read "child of a deaf adult" as "deaf child of an adult..." Image

Provisional support (i.e. see Vandov Desket above - may/will comment later).
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
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Kyundao
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Founded: Jan 02, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Kyundao » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:05 pm

I'm leaning towards supporting this to be honest.

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South Reinkalistan
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby South Reinkalistan » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:35 am

Desket: "Having read over this in full, I must say it's a wholly commendable draft. However, a few concerns. The most prominent of which being, that whilst I have nothing but respect for deaf individuals and the challenges they face, I do feel the need to emphasise that it's still difficult to be deaf. It's challenging. This is objective fact. The way this resolution is worded and structured, I fear, would see this neglected to the ultimate detriment of deaf individuals. Do correct me if I am wrong."
Last edited by South Reinkalistan on Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Agarntrop 2
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Ex-Nation

Postby Agarntrop 2 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:27 am

"Support"
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:34 am

South Reinkalistan wrote:Desket: "Having read over this in full, I must say it's a wholly commendable draft. However, a few concerns. The most prominent of which being, that whilst I have nothing but respect for deaf individuals and the challenges they face, I do feel the need to emphasise that it's still difficult to be deaf. It's challenging. This is objective fact. The way this resolution is worded and structured, I fear, would see this neglected to the ultimate detriment of deaf individuals. Do correct me if I am wrong."

"While it's difficult to know the international struggles of any community, we have observed that most of the difficulties of being deaf is due to the stigma that is associated with it. We have found that many deaf people organize themselves into some 'Deaf Communities' - distinguishing themselves from deaf people who are not in these communities. Issues arise, however, when hearing parents have deaf children, and become skeptical of these Deaf Communities - treating the condition of their child as an overall detriment, which is overall not true. Being deaf can make certain parts of life more difficult, but, when given proper resources to expand communities, and given proper education, there is no reason that it's detrimental. This proposal is there to fight discrimination of the Deaf Communities that have been observed in Morover and many other nations, as well as furthering their own cultures."

OOC: This is mostly the case in real-life, as well, with the notable difference between being deaf (with a lower-case D) and being Deaf (with an upper-case D), with communities arising from the condition.

I assume your issues are with the preambulatory sections of this proposal, which I'm willing to alter slightly, but I feel that shifting them to focus on the "hardships" placed on deaf individuals would be more dismissive of the culture overall.

If you wish to use any of my previous work - be it World Assembly or otherwise - feel free to use it, but I ask that you credit me as a co-author. If the piece credits a non-CTE'd co-author, I ask that you approach them first.
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Richonne
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Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Richonne » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:36 pm

Oppose. If they can't hear they can learn to read lips not a single Zombie will be spent on making it easier for them.

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:40 am

Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation

OOC: Even ones without deaf people? I'm thinking of species and advanced civilizations where deafness might be impossible (with the entity still being viable to live and grow) or having been eradicated with advanced methods of medicine or something.

Also of concern are nations recovering from a decimation of some kind (war, genocide, natural disaster, devastating epidemics, you name it) and which need to focus on keeping people alive rather than establishing schools and finding teachers able to teach deaf kids anything.

Oh and is there a reason you're using both "verbal" and "audial"? Aren't they the same thing? (Also, "audial"? Nor "auditory"? Audial sounds like a car brand. :P)

EDIT: I also do note that this currently encourages stuffing deaf peeps into concentration camps and calling them schools. I'm not sure if I should applaud you or facepalm. :blink:
Last edited by Araraukar on Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kamilistan
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Ex-Nation

Postby Kamilistan » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:47 am

''Support , and can you also make them learn lip reading so they can understand , dont want them to fill embrassed in public''

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Maowi
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Postby Maowi » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:26 am

OOC:
Morover wrote:
  1. Defines, for the purpose of this resolution:
    1. "deaf" or "deafness" as the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language;

"Deafness" is indeed "the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language"; "deaf" is not. Maybe consider saying something like "Defines "deafness", and any linguistic derivations thereof, as ..." etc. Also I worry that "directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language" would exclude most deaf people from this definition; I think "communicate" can reasonably be interpreted as the imparting of information and not necessarily the receiving of it, and the strictness of "directly impairs" would make that apply more to mute people than to deaf people. It might be a good idea to rephrase that?

[*]"hearing" as the condition of not being deaf;


The way you've used "hearing" throughout the proposal, it doesn't make sense to define it as a "condition". I think the best way would simply be "Defines "hearing" as not deaf". Maybe you can think of a slightly nicer and less blunt way of putting it but linguistically that's what works :p also I have now thought the word "hearing" so many times that it no longer sounds like a word :blink:

[*]"community of non-hearing individuals" (henceforth known as "CNHI") as any community that surrounds deaf individuals and those related to deaf individuals that celebrates their deafness;


This phrasing feels a bit odd to me; I'd suggest replacing "surrounds" with "consists of" and "celebrates" with ... "is concerned with" or something? I mean "concerned" there not like "worried" but more like ... has it as a focus.

[*]Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation;
[list=a][*]Affirms that these schools must be granted the same supplies and resources of other schools in the nation;
[*]Instructs member-nations to have these schools for the deaf to be able to hold a capacity of all deaf children or CODAs that wish to attend them;


I agree with Ara's concern here and I think for that reason, as well as others, you could condense these three parts by simply requiring that each member nation have schools for the deaf with sufficient capacity to fully educate all deaf children or CODAs who wish to attend them.

[*]Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of CODAs to determine where their children will go to school, even if they wish for their child to attend a school for the deaf;


It doesn't make much difference but "even if" feels slightly odd here - maybe use "including" instead?

Anyway, I really like this idea, and the overall execution is very good!!!

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:35 am

OOC: So, if CODAs are kids whose parents are deaf but the children themselves aren't, why should they be put into a deaf kids' school to begin with? They'd do just fine in a normal school, what with having normal hearing.

...I'm also not seeing anything in the proposal that would allow a deaf individual to NOT be educated in a school for the deaf? They could be perfectly able to read lips and could function in a normal school, or they could have an interpretor with them when they attend a normal school. Not everyone wants to be shut out of the regular society.
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Postby Bruke » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:41 am

Araraukar wrote:
Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation

OOC: Even ones without deaf people? I'm thinking of species and advanced civilizations where deafness might be impossible (with the entity still being viable to live and grow) or having been eradicated with advanced methods of medicine or something.

Also of concern are nations recovering from a decimation of some kind (war, genocide, natural disaster, devastating epidemics, you name it) and which need to focus on keeping people alive rather than establishing schools and finding teachers able to teach deaf kids anything.

Oh and is there a reason you're using both "verbal" and "audial"? Aren't they the same thing? (Also, "audial"? Nor "auditory"? Audial sounds like a car brand. :P)

EDIT: I also do note that this currently encourages stuffing deaf peeps into concentration camps and calling them schools. I'm not sure if I should applaud you or facepalm. :blink:


OOC:

:blink: What?

I am extremely certain that the author of this proposal does not mean to forcibly relocate deaf folks to schools where they'll be cut off from the world and otherwise mistreated.

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:48 am

Bruke wrote:I am extremely certain that the author of this proposal does not mean to forcibly relocate deaf folks to schools where they'll be cut off from the world and otherwise mistreated.

OOC: Not mistreated. Concentration camp simply means concentrating certain type of people into an enclosed area, not Nazi-Germany-type torture-them-all-to-death kind of thing. A live-in school for the deaf would likely have to be an enclosed area anyway, given that they wouldn't be able to hear an approaching car, for example. And the current wording directs member nations to do just that (forcibly relocating them), if the daily trip to the school would be too long. So you could build the school somewhere in the middle of nowhere and then it'd be too long daily trip for them all, and you could make them go live there. Problem solved.
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Bruke
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Postby Bruke » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:50 am

Araraukar wrote:
Bruke wrote:I am extremely certain that the author of this proposal does not mean to forcibly relocate deaf folks to schools where they'll be cut off from the world and otherwise mistreated.

OOC: Not mistreated. Concentration camp simply means concentrating certain type of people into an enclosed area, not Nazi-Germany-type torture-them-all-to-death kind of thing. A live-in school for the deaf would likely have to be an enclosed area anyway, given that they wouldn't be able to hear an approaching car, for example.


Oh........ Forgive me for jumping to conclusions, then. :oops: In my defense, most people would probably think that's what you're referring to.

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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:25 am

“Clause 3a appears to suggest that, if most schools in member states are given access to audio tapes of lectures, so too should schools for the deaf. I suggest apply some limitation based on how useful the resource would be to deaf students.”
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Maowi
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Postby Maowi » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:30 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: So, if CODAs are kids whose parents are deaf but the children themselves aren't, why should they be put into a deaf kids' school to begin with? They'd do just fine in a normal school, what with having normal hearing.

...I'm also not seeing anything in the proposal that would allow a deaf individual to NOT be educated in a school for the deaf? They could be perfectly able to read lips and could function in a normal school, or they could have an interpretor with them when they attend a normal school. Not everyone wants to be shut out of the regular society.

OOC: I think clauses 6 and 7 should account for that?

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Postby Araraukar » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:53 am

Maowi wrote:OOC: I think clauses 6 and 7 should account for that?

OOC: The parents, yeah, the children not. And no I don't think kids should have 100% choice of where they go to school, but if the parents want to stuff their kids in the deaf camp and the kids 100% don't want to be there but instead go to regular school (where they could study with an interpreter as that interpreter service is available) with the neighbouring kids they're friends with, you're just asking for trouble.

Basically looking at this from IC POV (though commenting OOCly, because in IC my current ambassador wouldn't be half as polite) of Araraukar, where all kids born deaf are given cochlear implants when old enough for the surgery, and if that for some reason doesn't work, they and their families are taught sign language and how to function in a hearing society and all that, and interpreters who will help them in school - the main aim is to integrate them into the society as seamlessly as possible, so that they can be fully participating members of it.

So from that POV, what you're suggesting, sounds like "deaf camps" where the deaf are isolated from the society, shut into a community of their own to marinade with one another, to keep the rest of the society "clean". Of course that's not what you mean, but that's how it reads. If you made the whole of it to have some kind of "unless sufficient methods of integration exist and are freely available" or something like that, then this problem wouldn't exist.
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:01 pm

All replies OOC here unless marked otherwise.

Araraukar wrote:
Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation

OOC: Even ones without deaf people? I'm thinking of species and advanced civilizations where deafness might be impossible (with the entity still being viable to live and grow) or having been eradicated with advanced methods of medicine or something.

I'll fix this.

Also of concern are nations recovering from a decimation of some kind (war, genocide, natural disaster, devastating epidemics, you name it) and which need to focus on keeping people alive rather than establishing schools and finding teachers able to teach deaf kids anything.

This really should only be an issue to nations directly after the passage of the resolution and once nations enter the World Assembly. It honestly doesn't seem like a super big issue, and I think that the Compliance Commission would have a bit of leniency on them, as they get their affairs together.

Oh and is there a reason you're using both "verbal" and "audial"? Aren't they the same thing? (Also, "audial"? Nor "auditory"? Audial sounds like a car brand. :P)

"Verbal" refers to speech that uses words (such as English, Spanish, or most other major languages in the real-world), whereas "audial" refers to speech which doesn't use complete words, in the traditional sense (Silbo Gomero, for instance). At least, that's my understanding of it, and I'd rather be repetitive than not thorough enough.

EDIT: I also do note that this currently encourages stuffing deaf peeps into concentration camps and calling them schools. I'm not sure if I should applaud you or facepalm. :blink:

I really don't think that this is a reasonable interpretation of the text - especially in good faith. I'll make changes where I think the issue has merit, but I don't think it requires a drastic change.

Araraukar wrote:
Bruke wrote:I am extremely certain that the author of this proposal does not mean to forcibly relocate deaf folks to schools where they'll be cut off from the world and otherwise mistreated.

OOC: Not mistreated. Concentration camp simply means concentrating certain type of people into an enclosed area, not Nazi-Germany-type torture-them-all-to-death kind of thing. A live-in school for the deaf would likely have to be an enclosed area anyway, given that they wouldn't be able to hear an approaching car, for example. And the current wording directs member nations to do just that (forcibly relocating them), if the daily trip to the school would be too long. So you could build the school somewhere in the middle of nowhere and then it'd be too long daily trip for them all, and you could make them go live there. Problem solved.

Deaf people would not be able to hear an approaching car whether they're in a school or not. That's something that people become aware of and learn to live with.

Araraukar wrote:OOC: So, if CODAs are kids whose parents are deaf but the children themselves aren't, why should they be put into a deaf kids' school to begin with? They'd do just fine in a normal school, what with having normal hearing.

Because, uh, if they're the child of a deaf adult, non-audial languages will typically be their native language? It's just like if an individual grows up in a household that only speaks Spanish, in a predominately English-speaking country, Spanish will typically be their first language.

...I'm also not seeing anything in the proposal that would allow a deaf individual to NOT be educated in a school for the deaf? They could be perfectly able to read lips and could function in a normal school, or they could have an interpretor with them when they attend a normal school. Not everyone wants to be shut out of the regular society.

The proposal currently allows parents to make those decisions for their children (which you note in a second). Also, uh, I think you drastically overestimate how effective lipreading is. In English, only about 30% of speech can be accurately lipread (although some sources claim that up to 60% of speech can be picked up, that's still not enough to be able to "function in a normal school"), and this isn't taking into consideration the fact that these are under ideal circumstances, which are far and few between.

Araraukar wrote:
Maowi wrote:OOC: I think clauses 6 and 7 should account for that?

OOC: The parents, yeah, the children not. And no I don't think kids should have 100% choice of where they go to school, but if the parents want to stuff their kids in the deaf camp and the kids 100% don't want to be there but instead go to regular school (where they could study with an interpreter as that interpreter service is available) with the neighbouring kids they're friends with, you're just asking for trouble.

That's bound to happen with any child - and, I think you overestimate the service available with an interpreter. While far better than forcing children to lipread, it is not a perfect system, and most deaf students with interpreters tend to do worse than hearing students in the same classroom.

Basically looking at this from IC POV (though commenting OOCly, because in IC my current ambassador wouldn't be half as polite) of Araraukar, where all kids born deaf are given cochlear implants when old enough for the surgery, and if that for some reason doesn't work, they and their families are taught sign language and how to function in a hearing society and all that, and interpreters who will help them in school - the main aim is to integrate them into the society as seamlessly as possible, so that they can be fully participating members of it.

Again, ignoring all the other issues, does everyone who receives a cochlear implant receive the therapy necessary following those procedures (I couldn't find a good source for this, but if I recall, it usually takes ten or more years of therapy for a cochlear implant to be entirely effective).

So from that POV, what you're suggesting, sounds like "deaf camps" where the deaf are isolated from the society, shut into a community of their own to marinade with one another, to keep the rest of the society "clean". Of course that's not what you mean, but that's how it reads. If you made the whole of it to have some kind of "unless sufficient methods of integration exist and are freely available" or something like that, then this problem wouldn't exist.

That, uh, isn't the case. Suggesting that parents send their deaf children to schools that specialize in teaching the language that is pretty much the most effective way for those deaf children to communicate isn't saying that they should be isolated at all - it's common sense. Furthermore, the acknowledgment that many deaf individuals organize themselves into Deaf Communities isn't the same as saying they're forced to be "shut into a community of their own to marinade with one another."


Kenmoria wrote:“Clause 3a appears to suggest that, if most schools in member states are given access to audio tapes of lectures, so too should schools for the deaf. I suggest apply some limitation based on how useful the resource would be to deaf students.”

I'll fix that


Maowi wrote:OOC:
Morover wrote:
  1. Defines, for the purpose of this resolution:
    1. "deaf" or "deafness" as the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language;

"Deafness" is indeed "the condition of having partial or total lack of hearing which directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language"; "deaf" is not. Maybe consider saying something like "Defines "deafness", and any linguistic derivations thereof, as ..." etc. Also I worry that "directly impairs one's ability to communicate using verbal or audial language" would exclude most deaf people from this definition; I think "communicate" can reasonably be interpreted as the imparting of information and not necessarily the receiving of it, and the strictness of "directly impairs" would make that apply more to mute people than to deaf people. It might be a good idea to rephrase that?

I actually did try and do that so that it'd flow correctly, but struggled. I'll go back and fix that.

[*]"hearing" as the condition of not being deaf;


The way you've used "hearing" throughout the proposal, it doesn't make sense to define it as a "condition". I think the best way would simply be "Defines "hearing" as not deaf". Maybe you can think of a slightly nicer and less blunt way of putting it but linguistically that's what works :p also I have now thought the word "hearing" so many times that it no longer sounds like a word :blink:

I'll fix that.

[*]"community of non-hearing individuals" (henceforth known as "CNHI") as any community that surrounds deaf individuals and those related to deaf individuals that celebrates their deafness;


This phrasing feels a bit odd to me; I'd suggest replacing "surrounds" with "consists of" and "celebrates" with ... "is concerned with" or something? I mean "concerned" there not like "worried" but more like ... has it as a focus.

I'll rework the definition.

[*]Requires one or more school for the deaf to be established in every member-nation;
[list=a][*]Affirms that these schools must be granted the same supplies and resources of other schools in the nation;
[*]Instructs member-nations to have these schools for the deaf to be able to hold a capacity of all deaf children or CODAs that wish to attend them;


I agree with Ara's concern here and I think for that reason, as well as others, you could condense these three parts by simply requiring that each member nation have schools for the deaf with sufficient capacity to fully educate all deaf children or CODAs who wish to attend them.

Done.

[*]Subject to World Assembly legislation, allows parents of CODAs to determine where their children will go to school, even if they wish for their child to attend a school for the deaf;


It doesn't make much difference but "even if" feels slightly odd here - maybe use "including" instead?

I don't know, that just doesn't sound right to me. I'm open to other suggestions, but "including" sounds wrong.

Anyway, I really like this idea, and the overall execution is very good!!!

Thank you!

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Potted Plants United
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Postby Potted Plants United » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:19 pm

Morover wrote:*snip*

OOC: On the cochlear implants and necessary therapy and such: duh, of course. Araraukar actually has a properly functioning healthcare system that's free to all citizens. :P

On the deaf schools, why mandate a separate school and then transporting deaf kids to it, if your point is what your current title says, "language and education rights for deaf individuals". Nations can get that done in a variety of ways, that do not involve building a "deaf camp" somewhere in the sticks and shipping them all there. You could have proper integration on the classroom level (RL example later on, it's perfectly doable when done properly), you could have a separate class in a school that's mostly for hearing kids (they'd get to still spend recess and lunch and such with hearing students, so learning to interact with the hearing population as well as vice versa), especially in large cities, or you could have homeschooling, or any combination thereof.

On putting hearing kids into deaf schools. I actually know someone who has perfectly normal hearing herself, but both her parents are deaf. Her first language is spoken Finnish, but she's bilingual in Finnish sign language. That's because in RL Finland all children and their parents are given specialist attention on specialist (free to them) clinics (not necessarily actually separate locations/buildings, these are usually just a specialist section of the local health center) where the child's development is followed. As soon as it was discovered she had normal hearing, they got a nurse/social worker who came around at first daily, when she was a baby, to help her get proper reactions to the pre-speech babbling all kids go through, and her parents got something that's basically like if you imagined a "baby cry monitor" device, except it alerted them to her babbling, so they could encourage it by paying attention to her then. And she started normal hearing kids' daycare fairly young, to ensure normal speech development. She obviously learned sign language partially from her parents, and also was taught it from kindergarten onwards, and in school and so forth, but I honestly think that if her parents would've tried to put her into a school for deaf children, child protection services would've gotten involved, because there's no reason to deny a hearing child normal development like that. I mean, sure, after the kid's learned to speak and such, if they want and the resources exist to, say, do the last few years of primary schooling (USA highschool years) or secondary tier of school (like, say, vocational) in a sign language school, sure, but hearing children should be treated as hearing children, not as slightly strange deaf children.

(As for the example of the Spanish-at-home-in-an-English-society, dunno about that, but I know several people whose parents came here from elsewhere, to get away from war and such, their home language has always been something else but Finnish, but they're bilingual with Finnish and you honestly couldn't tell from listening to them speaking Finnish that their parents came from elsewhere.)

On integrating deaf kids into hearing kids' classes, entirely doable, when done right: https://www.vantaansanomat.fi/paikalliset/1296806
It's in Finnish, but it describes how two deaf girls go to school (3rd grade) normally with the help of an interpreter and a teacher who herself uses sign language - she teaches the class together with the other teacher (class also has 18 normally hearing kids). They have a separate "English writing teacher" who teaches them the difference between written and spoken English, in sign language. The girls are due to also start Spanish lessons next year. They went to a kindergarten for hearing kids, too. Their class has been together since first day of school on the first year, and some of the other students also use sign language when answering teacher's questions, since it's an option. The deaf girls (well, one of them can hear a little with a hearing aid) have an additional one hour of Finnish sign language lessons per week.

tl;dr: A big YES for making sure deaf individuals have the same rights to learn and partake the socity and culture and such, as everyone else. But a big NO for having a separate school for them as the only possible way of going about it. And an even BIGGER NO for making hearing children go to a school that doesn't treat them as hearing children and where they would not have the chance to develope and use their natural form of communication.

OOC: Most of the issues were fixed to my satisfaction, with clause 7 addition and the change to definition of a school for the deaf.
Last edited by Potted Plants United on Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:53 pm

Potted Plants United wrote:-snip-

OOC:

re Cochlear Implants: Alrighty, I just wanted to make sure you weren't feeding into the misconception that cochlear implants are some "miracle cure" to deafness - a stereotype that is ultimately harmful to Deaf people worldwide.

re "Deaf Classrooms" within otherwise hearing schools: I could agree with you on the benefits, though I'm unsure as to how I would need to include it in the proposal. Part of me figures I could do that by renaming "school for the deaf" to "educational facility for the deaf" and rephrase the definition to "any place of formal education (including but not limited to distinct schools and classrooms) which specialize in the education of deaf children, especially using a popular local non-audial language;", but then I feel it would be difficult to adequately require member-states to implement these educational facilities, and it may become even more burdening for families with deaf children to find them. I don't know. I need to think about it.

re CODA education: Now, I'm not an expert on childhood development, but I'd imagine that, while babbling is important, having the native language of children being a sign language is not "deny[ing] a hearing child normal development" - refraining from teaching them any language would be. Furthermore, it's not as if I'm forcing hearing children to go to deaf schools - it's that I'm giving parents the option to send their children to a school that adequately corresponds to the way they were raised. I may add in something to the effect of "If a parent of a CODA is preventing their child from functioning with hearing society in a developmentally or socially detrimental way, local representatives may be brought in to resolve a dispute."

re integration: Hopefully whenever I figure out the school/educational facility split, it'll cover this concern too.

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Deacarsia
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[Draft] Language and Education Rights For Deaf Individuals

Postby Deacarsia » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:06 pm

While I acknowledge the rights of the deaf and strongly support their fair treatment, I must oppose this proposal on the ground of national sovereignty.

Deacarsia already has a substantial network of privately run schools for the deaf.
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