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[DRAFT] Commercial Spaceflight Safety

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:01 pm

“You have a duplication of ‘a’ in clause 3a.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Kaschovia
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Anarchy

Postby Kaschovia » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:45 am

Kenmoria wrote:“You have a duplication of ‘a’ in clause 3a.”

Fixed.

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Kaschovia
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Postby Kaschovia » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:28 am

How close is this to submission standard? This has been in drafting for three months, and I don't mind keeping it like that if there is still more to fix.

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Maowi
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maowi » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:59 am

Kaschovia wrote:1. Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation in any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers;

2. Confirms the right of member states to prohibit commercial space activity within their borders;


"I'd like some clarification on these clauses. As written, you define 'commercial spaceflight activity' so that it has to take place within the borders of any member nation, but it has to be for the purpose of conducting space travel outside of national borders. I acknowledge it's a rather literal reading, but I would say it's a reasonable one to take. Perhaps reword it to something along the lines of 'Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation based in a any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of said nation's national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers' - and after that you'd also need to alter clause 2, because as far as I can tell, at least, you are not trying to allow nations to ban commercial spaceflight activity within their borders (which, as defined, I believe would encompass any planning towards the actual space travel), but to ban international space travel for profit within their borders. I'd also recommend changing it so that member nations are permitted to "prohibit or regulate" international space travel within their borders, so they can for example prohibit it for organisations from nations other than their own."

OOC: I mean, that's all I can really think of to comment on. I'm extremely far from being anywhere near an expert on this subject, so for all I know there could be something grievously wrong with it, but personally if this got submitted fairly soon maybe with some of the edits I've suggested I'd be in support :)

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Excidium Planetis
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Excidium Planetis » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:16 am

Kaschovia wrote:I intend to continue working on this proposal, so if anyone has any thoughts on this that have not been brought up, or any feedback, that would be greatly appreciated.


Cornelia Schultz, once the Ambassador to the World Assembly for Excidium Planetis, before the military coup and subsequent withdrawal from the WA, walks by the drafting room and sees it has been reopened.

"Do carry on, Ambassador, it looks good enough even my nation would have accepted it. Pay no heed to the Tinfectian Delegation's concerns, they just don't like the WA ever acknowledging commercial enterprise."

Ms. Schultz strolls along.

Araraukar wrote:Also there are curiosities, like ... how, no matter where the windows face that your ambassador gets defenestrated from, they'll always land harmlessly in the Reflecting Pool that's never deep enough to actually drown in or shallow enough to actually get hurt.

OOC:

The WAHQ is obviously shaped like a donut, with all the windows on the inside and the Reflecting Pool forming most of the "hole". The outside of the donut has no windows, as I'm pretty sure the outside faces the void of whatever extra dimensional nexus the WAHQ resides in.

I estimate the Pool to be about 1.5 - 2 meters deep, enough to break your fall, easily shallow enough for an adult human to escape. The bottom is probably some form of foam or otherwise soft material though, so that delegations tossed into the pool won't get a concussion if their heads hit the bottom.
Last edited by Excidium Planetis on Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


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Sierra Lyricalia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:12 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Araraukar wrote:Also there are curiosities, like ... how, no matter where the windows face that your ambassador gets defenestrated from, they'll always land harmlessly in the Reflecting Pool that's never deep enough to actually drown in or shallow enough to actually get hurt.

OOC:

The WAHQ is obviously shaped like a donut, with all the windows on the inside and the Reflecting Pool forming most of the "hole". The outside of the donut has no windows, as I'm pretty sure the outside faces the void of whatever extra dimensional nexus the WAHQ resides in.

I estimate the Pool to be about 1.5 - 2 meters deep, enough to break your fall, easily shallow enough for an adult human to escape. The bottom is probably some form of foam or otherwise soft material though, so that delegations tossed into the pool won't get a concussion if their heads hit the bottom.


No comment on the actual structure of the pool, but it's easily imaginable that every debating chamber plus the Strangers' Bar are all located on the side of the building facing the large, rectangular reflecting pool, while non-public spaces such as offices and infrastructure (I believe I recall you yourself asserting hangars and an air/spacecraft runway once, and I like to think the entire complex sits near a harbor with a decent sized wharf) may be on other sides of the conventionally-shaped building. Has anyone ever been defenestrated from an office? Canonically mine doesn't even have windows to begin with.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:10 am

Should probably make a thread to bicker about what the WAHQ looks like, but I'm under the impression that Bell, for example, has an office opposite the women's restroom or something like that? I think my canon was that my former Ambassador bribed expressed his goodwill for the HQ staff (Parsons is landed gentry) to get a decent office.

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:15 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:Has anyone ever been defenestrated from an office? Canonically mine doesn't even have windows to begin with.

OOC: Since the Tikrr mainly fly on the outside of the building and enter through windows (walking on flat surfaces is difficult/uncomfortable, plus they as a species are somewhat claustrophobic), I know I've written about office and other windows before, and rather than defenestration, whatever word is the opposite of that, since the hivemind's office's (former Araraukarian office) windows have certainly worked as a way in to at least two ambassadors, when the point was to avoid being seen walking through the corridors.

Still, I and many others find it much more funny to have the building - and immediate environs - to be some kind of weird multiversal pocket dimension, and both time and space being "off" in and around it. Like, it's a weird place, no attempt to explain it as anything but a weird place. But it being donut-shape I'm just not buying. I'd rather believe that whoever was commissioned to build the pool, built one on each side of a rectangular building, just so they could justify billing the Building Management five times... :P

Imperium Anglorum wrote:but I'm under the impression that Bell, for example, has an office opposite the women's restroom or something like that? I think my canon was that my former Ambassador bribed expressed his goodwill for the HQ staff (Parsons is landed gentry) to get a decent office.

Actually in a toilet/bathroom/restroom/other euphenism, but whether it was women's or men's, I can't remember. Although, since Lupinsky torched that one, did they relocate?

Araraukarian peeps are always surprised that anyone had any trouble getting office spaces or living quarters, because they're basically all bureaucrats themselves and so "talk the same language" with Building Management gnomes... basically knowing all the secret handshakes. But that's just because it's funny for me to think that all bureaucrats everywhere are some kind of secret cabal.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
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Hence us attacking
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Kaschovia
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Anarchy

Postby Kaschovia » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:10 am

Maowi wrote:
Kaschovia wrote:1. Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation in any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers;

2. Confirms the right of member states to prohibit commercial space activity within their borders;


"I'd like some clarification on these clauses. As written, you define 'commercial spaceflight activity' so that it has to take place within the borders of any member nation, but it has to be for the purpose of conducting space travel outside of national borders. I acknowledge it's a rather literal reading, but I would say it's a reasonable one to take. Perhaps reword it to something along the lines of 'Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation based in a any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of said nation's national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers' - and after that you'd also need to alter clause 2, because as far as I can tell, at least, you are not trying to allow nations to ban commercial spaceflight activity within their borders (which, as defined, I believe would encompass any planning towards the actual space travel), but to ban international space travel for profit within their borders. I'd also recommend changing it so that member nations are permitted to "prohibit or regulate" international space travel within their borders, so they can for example prohibit it for organisations from nations other than their own."

OOC: I mean, that's all I can really think of to comment on. I'm extremely far from being anywhere near an expert on this subject, so for all I know there could be something grievously wrong with it, but personally if this got submitted fairly soon maybe with some of the edits I've suggested I'd be in support :)


I appreciate the feedback!

So for the first clause, I have decided to use your variation. Hopefully that clears it up.

For the second clause, I have made the changes you have advised.

Do the changes clear up the issues you had?

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Excidium Planetis
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Excidium Planetis » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:35 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Since the Tikrr mainly fly on the outside of the building and enter through windows (walking on flat surfaces is difficult/uncomfortable, plus they as a species are somewhat claustrophobic), I know I've written about office and other windows before, and rather than defenestration, whatever word is the opposite of that, since the hivemind's office's (former Araraukarian office) windows have certainly worked as a way in to at least two ambassadors, when the point was to avoid being seen walking through the corridors.

Still, I and many others find it much more funny to have the building - and immediate environs - to be some kind of weird multiversal pocket dimension, and both time and space being "off" in and around it. Like, it's a weird place, no attempt to explain it as anything but a weird place. But it being donut-shape I'm just not buying. I'd rather believe that whoever was commissioned to build the pool, built one on each side of a rectangular building, just so they could justify billing the Building Management five times... :P

Araraukarian peeps are always surprised that anyone had any trouble getting office spaces or living quarters, because they're basically all bureaucrats themselves and so "talk the same language" with Building Management gnomes... basically knowing all the secret handshakes. But that's just because it's funny for me to think that all bureaucrats everywhere are some kind of secret cabal.


The Excidian offices (I believe we canonically had more than one) all don't have windows, as they are in the interior of the building. How they got those, I don't know.

Perhaps instead of a donut, the building is shaped like so:
The Reflecting pool is rectangular, and the WAHQ is inside the Reflecting pool (so that the pool wraps around the outside of the building)? Or it could be the reverse, the HQ could be rectangular with a large courtyard in the middle where the Reflecting pool is.

Also I'm surprised SL remembered that I wrote in a spacecraft landing strip, I had actually forgotten about that.
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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Maowi
Diplomat
 
Posts: 792
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maowi » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:04 am

OOC: As far as I can tell, that seems fine!

South Pacific

WA Minister
Customs Minister
Ambassador to Thaecia

--

Europeia

First Minister
Ambassador to the IDU

Former positions:
Minister of Communications
Minister of Recruitment
Deputy Minister of Recruitment
Deputy Minister of Communications
Deputy Councillor of World Assembly Affairs

Awards received:
Order of Dedication
Order of Mercury
Order of the Sapphire Star x3
Golden Pen x2
Silver Pen

--

Author of GAR #457 and GAR #480
Co-author of GAR #479

Factbooks

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:22 am

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Perhaps instead of a donut, the building is shaped like so:
The Reflecting pool is rectangular, and the WAHQ is inside the Reflecting pool (so that the pool wraps around the outside of the building)? Or it could be the reverse, the HQ could be rectangular with a large courtyard in the middle where the Reflecting pool is.

Also I'm surprised SL remembered that I wrote in a spacecraft landing strip, I had actually forgotten about that.

OOC: I'm fairly sure an inner courtyard has been mentioned before, but to my knowledge it has a garden (in early days of PPU, I'm fairly sure I referenced it in an IC post too), and the reflecting pool is on the outside. Or pools.

Also, didn't you also have a dropship or something take off from the top of the building? There are helicopter landing pads there at least, but fairly sure more than one ambassador has come in in a small dropship there too.

And also, there have to be any number of landing strips for planes and spacecraft both, as well as docks both oceanic and freshwater, and presumably some people arrive by train or car (or horse as I remember one case) or foot as well, so basically the building being on the tip of a peninsula would make the most sense. Dealing with it all as there being "portals" or at least "conjoined spaces" connecting the various worlds to it, makes the most sense to me at least.

IC: "Is it intentional that a nation that's only starting on their spaceflight activities, is excempt of clause 3, yet banned from starting without complying with it by clause 4? You can't have ongoing activities if you're just starting out, so you can't be compliant with clause 3, yet clause 4 bans you from doing anything if you're not compliant with it."
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Kaschovia
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Posts: 482
Founded: Apr 09, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Kaschovia » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:07 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:
Perhaps instead of a donut, the building is shaped like so:
The Reflecting pool is rectangular, and the WAHQ is inside the Reflecting pool (so that the pool wraps around the outside of the building)? Or it could be the reverse, the HQ could be rectangular with a large courtyard in the middle where the Reflecting pool is.

Also I'm surprised SL remembered that I wrote in a spacecraft landing strip, I had actually forgotten about that.

OOC: I'm fairly sure an inner courtyard has been mentioned before, but to my knowledge it has a garden (in early days of PPU, I'm fairly sure I referenced it in an IC post too), and the reflecting pool is on the outside. Or pools.

Also, didn't you also have a dropship or something take off from the top of the building? There are helicopter landing pads there at least, but fairly sure more than one ambassador has come in in a small dropship there too.

And also, there have to be any number of landing strips for planes and spacecraft both, as well as docks both oceanic and freshwater, and presumably some people arrive by train or car (or horse as I remember one case) or foot as well, so basically the building being on the tip of a peninsula would make the most sense. Dealing with it all as there being "portals" or at least "conjoined spaces" connecting the various worlds to it, makes the most sense to me at least.

IC: "Is it intentional that a nation that's only starting on their spaceflight activities, is excempt of clause 3, yet banned from starting without complying with it by clause 4? You can't have ongoing activities if you're just starting out, so you can't be compliant with clause 3, yet clause 4 bans you from doing anything if you're not compliant with it."

"Good catch. Perhaps changing the clause to '... all member nations in which there is commercial spaceflight activity:' might solve that?"

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14435
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:34 pm

Kaschovia wrote:"Good catch. Perhaps changing the clause to '... all member nations in which there is commercial spaceflight activity:' might solve that?"

"Sounds acceptable. The word "ongoing" was creating the problem there."
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Kaschovia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 482
Founded: Apr 09, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Kaschovia » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:28 am

Araraukar wrote:
Kaschovia wrote:"Good catch. Perhaps changing the clause to '... all member nations in which there is commercial spaceflight activity:' might solve that?"

"Sounds acceptable. The word "ongoing" was creating the problem there."

"Edited."

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5585
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:27 pm

(OOC: Clause five should have ‘; and,’ rather than ‘, and;’. The semicolon should be before the ‘and’, and the comma after it.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Kaschovia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 482
Founded: Apr 09, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Kaschovia » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:47 am

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Clause five should have ‘; and,’ rather than ‘, and;’. The semicolon should be before the ‘and’, and the comma after it.)

Edited.
Last edited by Kaschovia on Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kaschovia
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Posts: 482
Founded: Apr 09, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Kaschovia » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 am

I am going to consider submitting this by the end of February if nothing else is suggested to be changed. I believe 4 months is enough time for reasonable consideration, but if there is anything else that could be improved with the proposal, I am alright with keeping the draft up until all concerns are dealt with.

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Kenmoria
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Posts: 5585
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:23 am

“Mandate 2e might be seen as unreasonable for nations who are at war with their neighbours.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7535
Founded: May 01, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Excidium Planetis » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:16 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“Mandate 2e might be seen as unreasonable for nations who are at war with their neighbours.”


"I believe you mean Mandate 3e, Ambassador." Miss Schultz helpfully chimes in. "Also while it may be somewhat strange, I don't see how it would be an unreasonable requirement. WA law does a fairly good job protecting non-combatants in war time, so it's not like enemies could use the information from such cooperation to destroy commercial shipping. Unless, of course, Ambassador Bell's office has not done as thorough a job virtually outlawing war as I have assumed."
Ex-Ambassador (deceased): Evander Blackbourne
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Digital Network Defence is pretty meh
Tier 8, 7.5 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.


News: None. Good, right?

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