[PASSED] Promoting Natural Sciences in Schools

[Kenmoria]

(OOC: Final bump, as I will move towards submission next Saturday.)

[Marxist Germany]

OOC: Looks good.

[Bruke]

“While we support the proposal in general, we must insist upon an exemption for private schools. Our country's religiously based schools, in particular, are in a process of continuous integration of modern educational standards. This process depends on clerical authorities having the necessary time to develop relevant curriculum that is rooted in theologically sound principles. Having to immediately implement new curriculum would upend this delicate process, to the detriments of teachers and students alike.”

[Forensatha]

Against. Forensatha can regulate it's own curriculum in order to have a well rounded citizenry.

[Maowi]

"Seeing as 'general course' contains no qualifying criteria following it in clause 2, it could easily be interpreted as any generic course in any subject, thereby loopholing the most significant part of the proposal."

[Kenmoria]

"Seeing as 'general course' contains no qualifying criteria following it in clause 2, it could easily be interpreted as any generic course in any subject, thereby loopholing the most significant part of the proposal."

“This will be fixed, ambassador.”

“While we support the proposal in general, we must insist upon an exemption for private schools. Our country's religiously based schools, in particular, are in a process of continuous integration of modern educational standards. This process depends on clerical authorities having the necessary time to develop relevant curriculum that is rooted in theologically sound principles. Having to immediately implement new curriculum would upend this delicate process, to the detriments of teachers and students alike.”

“The draft originally had an exemption for private schools. However, numerous ambassadors from well-respected nations complained and it was subsequently removed. The clerical authorities should not have that much trouble finding some science-based courses to teach, given how broad the subject is. The only difficulty should be in finding equipment or staff, which is easily remedied by the use of the national funds or the WA General Fund.”

[Bananaistan]

"The funding mechanism needs more work. The General Fund is not a bottomless money pit and should not be issuing funds willy nilly to nations who, perhaps, might only not want to pay for the requirements as opposed to being genuinely unable to pay. We note that other resolutions (EG GAR#97 and GAR#263) provide for auditing of requests for funding by the GAO before letting nations run wild with the GA's cheque book."

- Ted

[Araraukar]

OOC: Clause 2 should have "general courses", plural, given that it also uses "classes", plural. Class =/= course, as well, but I'd choose one and stick with it.

[Kenmoria]

"The funding mechanism needs more work. The General Fund is not a bottomless money pit and should not be issuing funds willy nilly to nations who, perhaps, might only not want to pay for the requirements as opposed to being genuinely unable to pay. We note that other resolutions (EG GAR#97 and GAR#263) provide for auditing of requests for funding by the GAO before letting nations run wild with the GA's cheque book."

- Ted

“I will try to alter the allowed use of the General fund to be more appropriate. The legislation currently allows this only in cases of inability on the part of member nations’ governments, but I will emphasise this further and include auditing.”

OOC: Clause 2 should have "general courses", plural, given that it also uses "classes", plural. Class =/= course, as well, but I'd choose one and stick with it.

(OOC: I was trying to say that the school needs to offer either classes in multiple branches of science, or just one general class that covers science generally, in order to qualify. This was to prevent a school from teaching only one very specific subject.)

[Bruke]

“The draft originally had an exemption for private schools. However, numerous ambassadors from well-respected nations complained and it was subsequently removed. The clerical authorities should not have that much trouble finding some science-based courses to teach, given how broad the subject is. The only difficulty should be in finding equipment or staff, which is easily remedied by the use of the national funds or the WA General Fund.”

"The problem is not that religious schools lack science courses, or equipment and staff. Our country has four major clerical authorities, for the four major religious groups: the Patriarchate, overseeing Orthodox schools; the Archieparchy, overseeing Stephanite schools; the Grand Muftiate, overseeing Muslim schools; and the Office of the Liqa Kahenat, overseeing Jewish schools. Together, these schools make up the majority of institutions of primary education. The federal government is in an uphill struggle to have the clerical authorities update their school curricula- there is no domestic legislation addressing educational standards for religious schools, and such legislation has consistently been struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. While the religious education provided should not, in broad strokes, conflict with natural science education, it will inevitably conflict on topics such as evolution, and the clerical authorities have consistently opposed changes to curricula that openly conflict with religious teaching. The federal government can provide a work-around as it has done in the past, as with online educational modules able to be completed by students at home, but it can only do so if the schools themselves are not required to explicitly change their curricula. For these reasons, if there is no exemption for private schools, we must regretfully withdraw support for this otherwise unobjectionable proposal."

[Bananaistan]

“The draft originally had an exemption for private schools. However, numerous ambassadors from well-respected nations complained and it was subsequently removed. The clerical authorities should not have that much trouble finding some science-based courses to teach, given how broad the subject is. The only difficulty should be in finding equipment or staff, which is easily remedied by the use of the national funds or the WA General Fund.”

"The problem is not that religious schools lack science courses, or equipment and staff. Our country has four major clerical authorities, for the four major religious groups: the Patriarchate, overseeing Orthodox schools; the Archieparchy, overseeing Stephanite schools; the Grand Muftiate, overseeing Muslim schools; and the Office of the Liqa Kahenat, overseeing Jewish schools. Together, these schools make up the majority of institutions of primary education. The federal government is in an uphill struggle to have the clerical authorities update their school curricula- there is no domestic legislation addressing educational standards for religious schools, and such legislation has consistently been struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. While the religious education provided should not, in broad strokes, conflict with natural science education, it will inevitably conflict on topics such as evolution, and the clerical authorities have consistently opposed changes to curricula that openly conflict with religious teaching. The federal government can provide a work-around as it has done in the past, as with online educational modules able to be completed by students at home, but it can only do so if the schools themselves are not required to explicitly change their curricula. For these reasons, if there is no exemption for private schools, we must regretfully withdraw support for this otherwise unobjectionable proposal."

"I'm sure your courts are aware that international law supersedes any provision of domestic constitutions and laws, and that there is already international law enforcing standards of education which must be reached. Should the WA pass this proposal, your courts will have no choice but to enforce it, and perhaps your nation might join the rest of us in the 21st century where education is not subject to superstition and delusion."

- Ted

[Araraukar]

OOC: Clause 2 should have "general courses", plural, given that it also uses "classes", plural. Class =/= course, as well, but I'd choose one and stick with it.

(OOC: I was trying to say that the school needs to offer either classes in multiple branches of science, or just one general class that covers science generally, in order to qualify. This was to prevent a school from teaching only one very specific subject.)

OOC: I know what you tried to say, but it looks like you need to offer lots of in-depth courses (multiple per subject) if you're teaching the sciences separately, or a single howevershort one that lumps them all together. Also, I know that "class" and "course" can be hard to tell apart and/or can have very different meanings because of school system and just even language (for example, coming from Finnish meaning of things, I am partaking a Spanish course over this winter, which has one class (aka us literally getting into a classroom) per week) differences. So I would suggest picking one or the other, and sticking to it throughtout the text. Least loopholes that way.

[The New Bluestocking Homeland]

"The delegation of NBH fully supports this proposal."

OOC: But I would concur with the suggestion from Araraukar that changing "classes" to "courses" might reduce the potential for loophole abuse.

[Bruke]

"The problem is not that religious schools lack science courses, or equipment and staff. Our country has four major clerical authorities, for the four major religious groups: the Patriarchate, overseeing Orthodox schools; the Archieparchy, overseeing Stephanite schools; the Grand Muftiate, overseeing Muslim schools; and the Office of the Liqa Kahenat, overseeing Jewish schools. Together, these schools make up the majority of institutions of primary education. The federal government is in an uphill struggle to have the clerical authorities update their school curricula- there is no domestic legislation addressing educational standards for religious schools, and such legislation has consistently been struck down by the courts as unconstitutional. While the religious education provided should not, in broad strokes, conflict with natural science education, it will inevitably conflict on topics such as evolution, and the clerical authorities have consistently opposed changes to curricula that openly conflict with religious teaching. The federal government can provide a work-around as it has done in the past, as with online educational modules able to be completed by students at home, but it can only do so if the schools themselves are not required to explicitly change their curricula. For these reasons, if there is no exemption for private schools, we must regretfully withdraw support for this otherwise unobjectionable proposal."

"I'm sure your courts are aware that international law supersedes any provision of domestic constitutions and laws, and that there is already international law enforcing standards of education which must be reached. Should the WA pass this proposal, your courts will have no choice but to enforce it, and perhaps your nation might join the rest of us in the 21st century where education is not subject to superstition and delusion."

- Ted

"I was referring cases which arose before our country joined the World Assembly, I apologize for my lack of detail on that point. There is already scientific education at these religious schools, but certain aspects which may conflict with religious teaching are downplayed. The online modules, like the supplemental textbooks they replaced, are meant to remedy this issue without requiring official changes in curricula- a convoluted compromise, but a compromise nonetheless. This proposal, as it is currently written, threatens to upend that status quo."

[Kenmoria]

(OOC: I was trying to say that the school needs to offer either classes in multiple branches of science, or just one general class that covers science generally, in order to qualify. This was to prevent a school from teaching only one very specific subject.)

OOC: I know what you tried to say, but it looks like you need to offer lots of in-depth courses (multiple per subject) if you're teaching the sciences separately, or a single howevershort one that lumps them all together. Also, I know that "class" and "course" can be hard to tell apart and/or can have very different meanings because of school system and just even language (for example, coming from Finnish meaning of things, I am partaking a Spanish course over this winter, which has one class (aka us literally getting into a classroom) per week) differences. So I would suggest picking one or the other, and sticking to it throughtout the text. Least loopholes that way.

(OOC: I see now; I will try to make the language less ambiguous, and will stick to ‘class’ throughout the proposal.)

[Kenmoria]

"I'm sure your courts are aware that international law supersedes any provision of domestic constitutions and laws, and that there is already international law enforcing standards of education which must be reached. Should the WA pass this proposal, your courts will have no choice but to enforce it, and perhaps your nation might join the rest of us in the 21st century where education is not subject to superstition and delusion."

- Ted

"I was referring cases which arose before our country joined the World Assembly, I apologize for my lack of detail on that point. There is already scientific education at these religious schools, but certain aspects which may conflict with religious teaching are downplayed. The online modules, like the supplemental textbooks they replaced, are meant to remedy this issue without requiring official changes in curricula- a convoluted compromise, but a compromise nonetheless. This proposal, as it is currently written, threatens to upend that status quo."

“Online classes are still classes. As long as your ‘downplaying’ of science doesn’t go into actual falsehoods, and your online classes are of sufficient depth to actually cover material in a manner similar to a classroom, you should be in compliance. Besides, as Ted said, GA law supersedes domestic legislation. So, if you weren’t in compliance before, you will be once this passes.”

[Desmosthenes and Burke]

"Just as a side note, while we also would prefer to see an exception for private schools, our delegation does not read this resolution as imposing a specific enough requirement as to mandate any particular item, such as evolution, be covered in the first instance. If the Ambassador from Bruke truly means to imply his government is so lacking in creativity that it cannot find enough non-controversial topics in the collected realm of the physical sciences to fulfill the actual mandates of the resolution, we question how their society has managed to progress to a point of being able to offer internet based classes in the first instance."

OOC: Seriously.... What I remember of my science classes, there is enough information you could present only information that does not contradict Young Earth Creationism, and still have a, substandard, but compliant set of offerings that would meet the technical requirements of this resolution.

[Araraukar]

(OOC: I see now; I will try to make the language less ambiguous, and will stick to ‘class’ throughout the proposal.)

OOC: The new "a series of general class" should likely still be plural "classes", or else read "a series of a general class", but that doesn't look right either.

[Araraukar]

OOC: Seriously.... What I remember of my science classes, there is enough information you could present only information that does not contradict Young Earth Creationism, and still have a, substandard, but compliant set of offerings that would meet the technical requirements of this resolution.

OOC: ...just at a guess, did you go to school in USA?

[Desmosthenes and Burke]

OOC: Seriously.... What I remember of my science classes, there is enough information you could present only information that does not contradict Young Earth Creationism, and still have a, substandard, but compliant set of offerings that would meet the technical requirements of this resolution.

OOC: ...just at a guess, did you go to school in USA?

No. I went to a Catholic school in France, actually. We specialize for the last two years of secondary school, so it is uncommon for anyone except those taking the BAC S to take much science. I took the L series, so my sciences consisted of chemistry, biology (though, in practice, was more ecology), and the rudiments of physics. We covered them at a level that I was examined on all three in one 1.5 hour exam. Given how lowly it was weighted, I cannot say I spent that much effort on it, though I managed to eke out a mention level grade on it anyway.

Someone who did a science BAC would have studied rather more, but anyone who is going to subject students to 3.5 hours of physics/chemistry exams and then another 4 hours of science exams (primarly essay format by the way) based on the student's specialization is, I would contend, very obviously not the target audience of this resolution. Though even then, I do not recall any of my friends on that track ever discussing evolution or the origins of life. Though they usually lost me somewhere around gene mutation and electron orbitals, so my memory may not be the greatest on that front (it was also 13 years ago so).

[Kenmoria]

"Just as a side note, while we also would prefer to see an exception for private schools, our delegation does not read this resolution as imposing a specific enough requirement as to mandate any particular item, such as evolution, be covered in the first instance. If the Ambassador from Bruke truly means to imply his government is so lacking in creativity that it cannot find enough non-controversial topics in the collected realm of the physical sciences to fulfill the actual mandates of the resolution, we question how their society has managed to progress to a point of being able to offer internet based classes in the first instance."

OOC: Seriously.... What I remember of my science classes, there is enough information you could present only information that does not contradict Young Earth Creationism, and still have a, substandard, but compliant set of offerings that would meet the technical requirements of this resolution.

“You have hit the nail on the head. The way in which you have described the legislation was the intent. Mandating that certain topics be covered would be unrepresentative of what science may be useful in a given nation at a different time, so only a certain level of science education, rather than specific subjects, has been mandated.”

(OOC: I see now; I will try to make the language less ambiguous, and will stick to ‘class’ throughout the proposal.)

OOC: The new "a series of general class" should likely still be plural "classes", or else read "a series of a general class", but that doesn't look right either.

(OOC: Fixed.)

[Bruke]

"Just as a side note, while we also would prefer to see an exception for private schools, our delegation does not read this resolution as imposing a specific enough requirement as to mandate any particular item, such as evolution, be covered in the first instance. If the Ambassador from Bruke truly means to imply his government is so lacking in creativity that it cannot find enough non-controversial topics in the collected realm of the physical sciences to fulfill the actual mandates of the resolution, we question how their society has managed to progress to a point of being able to offer internet based classes in the first instance."

OOC: Seriously.... What I remember of my science classes, there is enough information you could present only information that does not contradict Young Earth Creationism, and still have a, substandard, but compliant set of offerings that would meet the technical requirements of this resolution.

OOC: That’s all already there, chief. That’s what I was hinting at when I mentioned “supplemental textbooks”. It’s already been done, the resolution would just provide an impetus to open that issue up again with domestic interest groups- which the federal government would not want.

I see my attempt to comment has gone swimmingly... sigh.

[Bruke]

"Just as a side note, while we also would prefer to see an exception for private schools, our delegation does not read this resolution as imposing a specific enough requirement as to mandate any particular item, such as evolution, be covered in the first instance. If the Ambassador from Bruke truly means to imply his government is so lacking in creativity that it cannot find enough non-controversial topics in the collected realm of the physical sciences to fulfill the actual mandates of the resolution, we question how their society has managed to progress to a point of being able to offer internet based classes in the first instance."

OOC: Seriously.... What I remember of my science classes, there is enough information you could present only information that does not contradict Young Earth Creationism, and still have a, substandard, but compliant set of offerings that would meet the technical requirements of this resolution.

“That is not what I mean to imply at all... The federal government already has in place a program which has developed supplemental material which complements the curricula of religious schools. But if there is to be compliance with both the letter and spirit of the resolution, there would naturally be a need to cover a full range of topics in the physical sciences. That would reopen controversy.”

[Bruke]

"Just as a side note, while we also would prefer to see an exception for private schools, our delegation does not read this resolution as imposing a specific enough requirement as to mandate any particular item, such as evolution, be covered in the first instance. If the Ambassador from Bruke truly means to imply his government is so lacking in creativity that it cannot find enough non-controversial topics in the collected realm of the physical sciences to fulfill the actual mandates of the resolution, we question how their society has managed to progress to a point of being able to offer internet based classes in the first instance."

OOC: Seriously.... What I remember of my science classes, there is enough information you could present only information that does not contradict Young Earth Creationism, and still have a, substandard, but compliant set of offerings that would meet the technical requirements of this resolution.

“You have hit the nail on the head. The way in which you have described the legislation was the intent. Mandating that certain topics be covered would be unrepresentative of what science may be useful in a given nation at a different time, so only a certain level of science education, rather than specific subjects, has been mandated.”

OOC: The new "a series of general class" should likely still be plural "classes", or else read "a series of a general class", but that doesn't look right either.

(OOC: Fixed.)

One of the less senior Brukean staffers whispered in the Brukean Ambassador’s ear, and he nodded in response.

He faced his colleagues with a sheepish look. “Our objection is withdrawn.... carry on with the proposal.” Feeling throughly embarrassed, he quietly made his was out of the chamber.

[Kenmoria]

(OOC: Submitted,)