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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2246
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:09 am

OOC:

viewtopic.php?p=29040910#p29040910

Also "NS =/= RL" is as relevant an argument as pointing out the existence of some RL law. Are we supposed to transcribe all RL laws into GA resolutions?
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.

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Antityranicals
Diplomat
 
Posts: 646
Founded: May 18, 2019
Anarchy

Postby Antityranicals » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:15 am

If you want to make this really landmark, expand it to a universal protection of not just free thought, but also of free speech.
Libertarian Purity Score: 148/160
Political Compass: Far-Right Social Libertarian.
Right: 9.94, Libertarian: 5.84
Catholic Libertarian, almost Anarcho-Capitalist. Government has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, and the government should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is when protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, and is one of the few things governments have a responsibility to prevent. Pro-Trump, though I wish he were more for free trade and more against deficits, because he's been an effective weapon against the real enemies of freedom: The Left. Unrestrained capitalism is a beautiful thing; it does wonders for the standard of living of everyone, especially the poor.

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Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8885
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:27 am

@Banana

1. That doesn't even support the claim, as I've not threatened to vote against on format
2. Heightened scrutiny of proposals that don't meet format expectations is expected, most everyone in the GA does it (see this thread and that for DVR if you want the proof)
3. I still disavow my statements from three years ago

So the existence of the real life legislation is an argument, thought poorly made on mobile, as to the importance of the topic, which is a response to 'this is pointless'. It's not a claim as to 'copy all the UN resolutions'. If you meant something different with NS isn't RL, could you elaborate?

@AN , to borrow a F7 phrase , we have freedom of expression legislation already.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2246
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:46 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:@Banana

1. That's doesn't even support the claim, as I've not threatened to vote against on format
2. Heightened scrutiny of proposals that don't meet format expectations is expected, most everyone in the GA does it (see this thread and that for DVR if you want the proof)
3. I still disavow my statements from three years ago


It's only one post that I easily found but given your no 3 here it's now irrelevant and I apologise for insinuating that this format thing is your current/more recent position.

Agreed on point no 2 though it's not something I'd get bogged down in beyond "is there an operative clause here?" EG I've no problem with the lack of preamble and length of this proposal because it's an obvious operative clause.

So the existence of the real life legislation is an argument, thought poorly made on mobile, as to the importance of the topic, which is a response to 'this is pointless'. It's not a claim as to 'copy all the UN resolutions'. If you meant something different with NS isn't RL, could you elaborate?


I meant no more than the existence of a section in a UN convention to the same effect isn't a substantial argument in favour but I think we get each other on this point so that's fair enough.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.

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Marxist Germany
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1073
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Marxist Germany » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:44 am

OOC:Not again! IA you're going to lose respect of many people with this mockery of the GA. Shall this be submitted I'll run a counter campaign.

Klaus receives a copy of the proposal then proceeds to read it, he is extremely shocked by the length and says the following, "With kind regards, I will not allow this blatant mockery of this respectful assembly."he throws the copy in his paper shredder.
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
PolitiStates Result
Pro:Laissez-faire, Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, Same-sex marriage, United Ireland.
Anti:Extreme Progressivism, Abortion, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.
A high school student aged 15 from Ireland, living in Co. Dublin. Interested in politics, gaming, and history.

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Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8885
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:58 am

Happy to clear things up with Banana.

MG, it's definitely insufficient to claim that someone is mocking the WA by writing properly formatted legislation on a topic of significance. At that level, you should show how. So how am I mocking the WA? And when the NSUN passed the tax ban, was that mocking the UN?
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
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Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5066
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:03 am

In suppo

:p

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Author: SC#250, SC#251, SC#267
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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2447
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:05 am

"Support."
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

Deputy Outreach Minister, The Rejected Realms
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

President, Right to Life
Author/Co-author: 7 GA, 2 SC resolutions

Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
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Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5092
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:24 am

(OOC: Can you have a ‘belief of a thought’? ‘Belief in a thought’ seems more traditional wording.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8885
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:07 pm

Kenmoria: Prepositions corrected.

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Dastardly villain providing free services to the community sans remuneration

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13737
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:21 pm

Bears Armed wrote:OOC
If this proposal is not supposed to cover actually expressing the thoughts, rather than just holding or believing them, then the lack [that has already been pointed out] of any reliable way for most member nations' governments to tell what people really think or believe means that this would have little or no actual effects: 'Mild', at the most.

OOC: ^This, still.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Eternal Lotharia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9862
Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:24 pm

Supported.
On Hiatus from September 6th 2019 to September 13th 2019.
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Munkcestrian Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 759
Founded: May 01, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:26 pm

I'm still against, people (including leaders) should be free to do what they want.
Last edited by Munkcestrian Republic on Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5092
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:14 pm

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:I'm still against, people (including leaders) should be free to do what they want.

(OOC: That’s what the proposal says; it bans member nations from restricting people’s freedom of thought. That is, unless you are saying that leaders should be free to restrict thinking, in which case you are simply rehashing traditional NatSov arguments.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Maowi
Diplomat
 
Posts: 614
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Maowi » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:14 pm

[insert pesky music note emoji] We don't need no thought control ... [insert pesky music note emoji]

Support :p

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:I'm still against, people (including leaders) should be free to do what they want.

If you let leaders do what they want, you'll end up with everyone else not being free to do what they want ... not a coherent argument.
South Pacific
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Jocospor
Diplomat
 
Posts: 618
Founded: Nov 24, 2015
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Jocospor » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:46 pm

Anyone else who tried this would be shot down.
HAIL THE CONFEDERATION!
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Munkcestrian Republic
Diplomat
 
Posts: 759
Founded: May 01, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:11 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Munkcestrian Republic wrote:I'm still against, people (including leaders) should be free to do what they want.

(OOC: That’s what the proposal says; it bans member nations from restricting people’s freedom of thought. That is, unless you are saying that leaders should be free to restrict thinking, in which case you are simply rehashing traditional NatSov arguments.)

Leaders lead their nation, and so what they want to do comes before what other people in that nation want to do.

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Marxist Germany
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1073
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Marxist Germany » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:11 pm

Jocospor wrote:Anyone else who tried this would be shot down.

OOC:Exactly this^^^^^^^^^
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
PolitiStates Result
Pro:Laissez-faire, Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, Same-sex marriage, United Ireland.
Anti:Extreme Progressivism, Abortion, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.
A high school student aged 15 from Ireland, living in Co. Dublin. Interested in politics, gaming, and history.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13737
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:23 pm

Jocospor wrote:Anyone else who tried this would be shot down.

OOC: To be fair, IA is being shot down, but I suspect he's turned into an undead zombie golem a long time ago, so it's having little effect. :P
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5092
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:32 pm

Jocospor wrote:Anyone else who tried this would be shot down.

(OOC: You aren’t wrong. It’s one of the long-running issues with the GA. Personally, I would prefer a more conventional format, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with briefness.
Munkcestrian Republic wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: That’s what the proposal says; it bans member nations from restricting people’s freedom of thought. That is, unless you are saying that leaders should be free to restrict thinking, in which case you are simply rehashing traditional NatSov arguments.)

Leaders lead their nation, and so what they want to do comes before what other people in that nation want to do.

The World Assembly leads all member states, so what it wants to be do comes above what leaders want to do. In this particular case, the proposal guarantees something that is mostly irrelevant to MT states, and is one of the basest freedoms imaginable in any tech level. I don’t see a good reason to oppose.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13737
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:06 pm

Kenmoria wrote:The World Assembly leads all member states, so what it wants to be do comes above what leaders want to do.

OOC: Controls, rather than leads, but yes, WA law goes above national law.

As for a basic right and such, that's not the point. The point is that this proposal is about as sensible as making a proposal that says WA nations are banned from banning breathing. Or dying. Or anything else that you realistically couldn't do anyway. It's an unnecessary law.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Refuge Isle
Attaché
 
Posts: 69
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:35 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:OOC:Not again! IA you're going to lose respect of many people with this mockery of the GA. Shall this be submitted I'll run a counter campaign.

Come now, one-liner resolution antics and thought crimes are the only things that keep the GA from going stale.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5092
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:37 am

Araraukar wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:The World Assembly leads all member states, so what it wants to be do comes above what leaders want to do.

OOC: Controls, rather than leads, but yes, WA law goes above national law.

As for a basic right and such, that's not the point. The point is that this proposal is about as sensible as making a proposal that says WA nations are banned from banning breathing. Or dying. Or anything else that you realistically couldn't do anyway. It's an unnecessary law.

(OOC: The technology is already in development, and there is always the question of FT or PMT member states operating with different tech levels.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
The New Nordic Union
Envoy
 
Posts: 342
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The New Nordic Union » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:23 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: Controls, rather than leads, but yes, WA law goes above national law.

As for a basic right and such, that's not the point. The point is that this proposal is about as sensible as making a proposal that says WA nations are banned from banning breathing. Or dying. Or anything else that you realistically couldn't do anyway. It's an unnecessary law.

(OOC: The technology is already in development, and there is always the question of FT or PMT member states operating with different tech levels.)


OOC: Or, for that matter, telepathic species in the WA. (Yes, I know, but still.)

Support.
Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly: Katrin við Keldu

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20202
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:27 pm

This has absolutely no material effect on anyone. Useless laws get voted down.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
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Minister of World Assembly Affairs for The East Pacific

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