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[DRAFT] Preventing Natural Resource Theft

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Ransium
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 6076
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:31 am

Aclion wrote:As written the definition of resource excludes most fishery resources. That's unfortunate since illegal fishing is among the most common forms of international resource theft.

Also "citizens or registered corporations" would exclude individuals who are not citizens as well as other legal entities. Just use "people".


While I agree with you about the importance of preventing the theft of marine stock, I think crafting effective regulation on the matter would take enough dedicated clauses to be about the same length as what I have here, making me thing it could and should be it's own resolution. This proposal certainly doesn't block that.

Your other change has been made.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:49 am

Ransium wrote:
Aclion wrote:Also "citizens or registered corporations" would exclude individuals who are not citizens as well as other legal entities. Just use "people".

Your other change has been made.

(OOC: Through creative compliance, a member nation may claim that the legislation only targets natural persons. I suggest using ‘natural and legal persons’, as this covers all possibilities while not being open to interpretation.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Aclion
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Founded: Apr 12, 2016
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Postby Aclion » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:54 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Ransium wrote:Your other change has been made.

(OOC: Through creative compliance, a member nation may claim that the legislation only targets natural persons. I suggest using ‘natural and legal persons’, as this covers all possibilities while not being open to interpretation.)

(OOC: might as well, though we already have a gensec ruling that people refers to all people, not just natural ones.)
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
TEP: WA Executive Staff member
Forest: Cartographer
Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Bananaistan
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Founded: Apr 20, 2012
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Postby Bananaistan » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:13 am

Aclion wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Through creative compliance, a member nation may claim that the legislation only targets natural persons. I suggest using ‘natural and legal persons’, as this covers all possibilities while not being open to interpretation.)

(OOC: might as well, though we already have a gensec ruling that people refers to all people, not just natural ones.)

OOC: Hmmm, I'm reasonably sure we did not do this. Perhaps I've forgotten though, can you link please?

But in any case, the way clause 5 is currently written, it seems obvious that it only refers to the natural people considering that it's rather hard to extradite a corporation or association.

Also 5a into 5b doesn't flow right atm. The "or" part of 5a is left hanging as far as I can see.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:41 am

Bananaistan wrote:
Aclion wrote:(OOC: might as well, though we already have a gensec ruling that people refers to all people, not just natural ones.)

OOC: Hmmm, I'm reasonably sure we did not do this. Perhaps I've forgotten though, can you link please?

But in any case, the way clause 5 is currently written, it seems obvious that it only refers to the natural people considering that it's rather hard to extradite a corporation or association.

Also 5a into 5b doesn't flow right atm. The "or" part of 5a is left hanging as far as I can see.

(OOC: In that case, there’s a rather large loophole in that a corporation can steal and sell items with no penalty. Given it was supposed to replace wording that included corporations, I thought ‘people’ was intended to include both natural and legal ones.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2246
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:41 am

OOC: If I understand the text of the current draft properly, the intention is to extradite suspects to the jurisdiction in which they are suspected of having engaged in (or funded or profited from) resource theft. Extradition cannot apply to organisations but it can apply to individual members, owners, employees etc. So I'd recommend a bit of a rejig to make it clear that:

1) Individuals get extradited where possible.
2) Individuals should include company officers, employees etc.
3) If extradition is not possible (EG no extradition treaty or it's extradition to a dodgy jurisdiction), local prosecution happens instead.
4) Whether real people or unreal people were responsible for the theft, profits and stolen resources are forfeited (and perhaps returned to the rightful owner?).
5) Further action against both real and unreal people when found guilty?

Perhaps something like this (hopefully others might help to make it better):
5. Requires member nations to take action against suspects when there is reasonable suspicion that they are participating in, funding, or directly profiting from stealing a resource from another nation as follows:

a. If the suspect is an individual, extradite the individual to the relevant foreign jurisdiction where permitted by World Assembly or local legislation;
b. If the suspect is an organisation (or legal person), extradite directors, employees or members responsible for the suspected offence to the relevant foreign jurisdiction where permitted by World Assembly or local legislation;
c. If extradition is not possible, prosecute suspected individuals or directors, employees or members of suspected organisations;
d. Seize stolen resources and profits from the stolen resources (and return to rightful owner???) where guilt is proven;
e. Enact additional punitive action against individuals or organisations found guilty locally;


Also, regarding clauses 3 and 4, is the intention just to prohibit member nations from undertaking these actions and not everyone? Perhaps an outright prohibition would be feasible? EG clause 3 could be "Bans resource theft" and clause 4 could be "Bans the purchasing of resources for which there is reasonable suspicion ...."
Last edited by Bananaistan on Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.

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Ransium
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Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:46 pm

I've made several alterations base on Bananaistan's critics.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
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Postby Kenmoria » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:47 pm

“Clause currently 6 only covers clauses 2 and 3, since the remainder of the mandates are not prohibitions but requirements. Is this intentional?”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:05 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“Clause currently 6 only covers clauses 2 and 3, since the remainder of the mandates are not prohibitions but requirements. Is this intentional?”

OOC: I think you mean 3 & 4.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Ransium
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Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:21 pm

Okay, added a couple words.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Ransium
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Posts: 6076
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:46 am

Any more feedback on this?

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Araraukar
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Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:33 am

OOC: Definition 1.a., instead of "and will stay where it is" should have "that will stay where it is". EDIT: And 1.b. should probably have "in their lives" rather than "in its life", since it's referring to plural things.
Last edited by Araraukar on Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5095
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:58 am

“In clause 4, you should have ‘purchasing of resources’ rather than ‘purchasing resources’.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Ransium
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Posts: 6076
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:00 pm

I've done the above two things.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:09 am

OOC: Clause 3 slash can be replaced with "or", and 5.b. round brackets can be removed.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5095
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:53 am

“For clause 1b, materials derived from living organisms don’t really have a life, only the original creature does. For this reason, the clause doesn’t quite make sense.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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The New Nordic Union
Envoy
 
Posts: 342
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The New Nordic Union » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:06 am

OOC: Clause 3 should have 'resource theft' without the 's' to be aligned with the definition in clause 2 and the title.
Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly: Katrin við Keldu

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Araraukar
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Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:18 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“For clause 1b, materials derived from living organisms don’t really have a life, only the original creature does. For this reason, the clause doesn’t quite make sense.”

OOC: The way I understood it, it's supposed to also refer to living organisms.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Ransium
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 6076
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:07 pm

I've made changes for Ara and The New Nomadic Union. For Kenmoria, the clause is more about the lifeforms than their products, although it could be applied to either I suppose. I personally don't think changes need to be made.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:47 am

OOC: Perhaps a simple addition will solve the problem of the definition?
living organisms, or material derived from living organisms, that are extremely unlikely to leave a nation's sovereign territory in their life without sapient intervention

It's a bit of repetition, but it makes it clearer what the "that" is referring to.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
Ransium
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 6076
Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ransium » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:42 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Perhaps a simple addition will solve the problem of the definition?
living organisms, or material derived from living organisms, that are extremely unlikely to leave a nation's sovereign territory in their life without sapient intervention

It's a bit of repetition, but it makes it clearer what the "that" is referring to.


Okay.

Commended by SC 236,
WA Delegate of Forest since March 20th, 2007.
Author of WA Resolutions: SC 221, SC 224, SC 233, SC 243, SC 265, GA 403, GA 439, GA 445,GA 463,GA 465,
Issues Editor since January 20th, 2017.
Author of 22 issues. First editor of 44.
Forum Moderator since November 10th, 2017. Game Moderator since March 15th, 2018.

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Aclion
Senator
 
Posts: 4338
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aclion » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:05 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Perhaps a simple addition will solve the problem of the definition?
living organisms, or material derived from living organisms, that are extremely unlikely to leave a nation's sovereign territory in their life without sapient intervention

It's a bit of repetition, but it makes it clearer what the "that" is referring to.

living organisms, or material derived thereof, that are extremely unlikely to leave a nation's sovereign territory in their life without sapient intervention
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
TEP: WA Executive Staff member
Forest: Cartographer
Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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Kaiserholt
Diplomat
 
Posts: 608
Founded: Sep 04, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kaiserholt » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:04 pm

What protections does this legislation provide to nations that have legal and contractual rights to obtain resources in another nation, and yet an incoming party wins an election and accuses the foreign nation of “stealing” resources, rejecting and ignoring all legal and legitimate documentation to the contrary? As a nation that has existed for over three millennia, we know firsthand that not all accusations are true.
"Hello, Masaki home. Oh, that sounds like if I were married to the family. How embarrassing. What do you think? Do you think it sounds that way?"

"I have been many things in my life, Mollari. I have been silly. I have been quiet when I should have spoken. I have been foolish. And I have wasted far too much time. But I am still Centauri. And I am not afraid."

"You are elevating futility to a high art. There is nothing you can do to prevent the catharsis of spurious morality."

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:13 am

Kaiserholt wrote:What protections does this legislation provide to nations that have legal and contractual rights to obtain resources in another nation, and yet an incoming party wins an election and accuses the foreign nation of “stealing” resources, rejecting and ignoring all legal and legitimate documentation to the contrary? As a nation that has existed for over three millennia, we know firsthand that not all accusations are true.

"Would depend on the exact wording of your contract. If they tried to violate a legal contract, then no WA committee - which are considered to be more or less infallible - would give the new regime any credit. If your contract was tied to that particular regime, however, then you would be at fault, if you continued the resource extraction."
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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