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by Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:03 pm
by Catsfern » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:08 pm
by Slavakino » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:15 pm
Blueflarst wrote:Repeal Affordable Transgender Hormone Therapy
The World Assembly rectifies and repeals the passed resolution stating
Transgender people are not a gender denomination there are only males and females.
Denies the gender identities as something real out of the mind.
Qualifies as debatable is the gender indentities are product of mental disorders of lots of self reasoning and introspection with caratrofic results.
As something only existent in the mind as idea the World Assembly considers irrelevant the gender identities
Denies the gender identity relevance towards the real life and defines the people gender by the genitals.
Repeals the World Assembly regulation towards hormone therapy and draws back the previous state of laws upon this repealing
Nullifies the transgender denomination legal meanings
by Refuge Isle » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:16 pm
Catsfern wrote:why is this a thing, well i know why you disagree with the resolution, but it passed overwhelmingly there's no way that a majority would ever repeal it, or heck i doubt it would get the needed support to go to vote. Honestly this just seems in bad taste to me, the resolution just passed too at least give it time to simmer before wanting it repealed.
by Kenmoria » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:44 pm
by Al-Diwajah » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:03 am
by Saciu » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:43 am
Al-Diwajah wrote:[OOC] Well, I find fault with the misunderstanding of gender and sex which is riddled throughout this proposal. Sex and gender are different, but trans identified individuals are without a doubt victim of mental illness. The solution to this is not to pump them with chemicals or coerce them into unnecessary surgeries, but to get to the root of the problem: outdated sex-roles. People simply do not fit into archaic boxes, and by placing men and women into confines from day one, that creates one as a dominator and the other as the dominated, simply does not work. This is where transgender ideology stems from, a disconnect between one's biological sex and the roles they are ascribed. But this is common with everyone, trans identified individuals take it to another level.
In conjunction with this realization, trans identified individuals take up a superiority complex, declaring themselves above others and their "oppression" the worst. They threaten women with violence, hurling slurs at them and harming them to get their way. They police their language and prevent their speech, their speech on their own grievances with patriarchy. While some discrimination exists, their lobbies with stacks of money and power are handed unquestioned potency. The link between trans identified individuals and various mental and social illnesses is also noted by scientists, especially with regards to hypersexuality. But this is not reason for discrimination, and instead, opens up the necessary road to treatment. Treatment should not consist of - in any way - surgeries or chemicals. This is petty individualism, let's focus on the prime issue: hackneyed gender. By shooing away gender, and patriarchy at large, transgenderism won't exist, as gender as a whole won't, and people won't have the burden forced upon them of connecting their personality to their sex, and society won't fix people into boxes based on their sex either. This is the only remedy to the problem, the only liberating route forward...
Forcing on all countries to go against science and reality and legitimatize that which is illegitimate is what some could deem "Orwellian", perhaps this is true. Trans identified people exist, but they cannot change gender (which is decided by virtue of one's birth by society) nor sex. Gender is a social construct, just as race is. If one cannot "change" race, they too cannot "change" gender. If gender causes problems, the only resolution is its abolition, plain and simple.
While concurring with the need to repeal this sickening act, I feel as though this attempt at a repeal will be futile. Furthermore, because much of the virtual world here is diseased with the ideology of capitalism, and the decadent, illegitimate gender politics of the west, it is unlikely the World Assembly will ever accept reality - that biological sex exists, that gender has been constructed, and that hormone therapy is an unjust band-aid to an overall plague of outdated sex-roles. Until this is realized, nothing will change.
by Tinfect » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:39 am
Al-Diwajah wrote:[OOC]
Al-Diwajah wrote:Sex and gender are different, but trans identified individuals are without a doubt victim of mental illness.
Al-Diwajah wrote:The solution to this is not to pump them with chemicals or coerce them into unnecessary surgeries, but to get to the root of the problem: outdated sex-roles. People simply do not fit into archaic boxes, and by placing men and women into confines from day one, that creates one as a dominator and the other as the dominated, simply does not work. This is where transgender ideology stems from, a disconnect between one's biological sex and the roles they are ascribed. But this is common with everyone, trans identified individuals take it to another level.
Al-Diwajah wrote:In conjunction with this realization, trans identified individuals take up a superiority complex, declaring themselves above others and their "oppression" the worst. They threaten women with violence, hurling slurs at them and harming them to get their way. They police their language and prevent their speech, their speech on their own grievances with patriarchy.
Al-Diwajah wrote:While some discrimination exists, their lobbies with stacks of money and power are handed unquestioned potency.
Al-Diwajah wrote:The link between trans identified individuals and various mental and social illnesses is also noted by scientists, especially with regards to hypersexuality.
Al-Diwajah wrote:But this is not reason for discrimination, and instead, opens up the necessary road to treatment. Treatment should not consist of - in any way - surgeries or chemicals.
Al-Diwajah wrote:This is petty individualism, let's focus on the prime issue: hackneyed gender. By shooing away gender, and patriarchy at large, transgenderism won't exist, as gender as a whole won't, and people won't have the burden forced upon them of connecting their personality to their sex, and society won't fix people into boxes based on their sex either. This is the only remedy to the problem, the only liberating route forward...
Al-Diwajah wrote:Forcing on all countries to go against science and reality and legitimatize that which is illegitimate is what some could deem "Orwellian", perhaps this is true.
Al-Diwajah wrote:Gender is a social construct, just as race is. If one cannot "change" race, they too cannot "change" gender.
Al-Diwajah wrote:If gender causes problems, the only resolution is its abolition, plain and simple.
Al-Diwajah wrote:Furthermore, because much of the virtual world here is diseased with the ideology of capitalism, and the decadent, illegitimate gender politics of the west,
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Luna Amore » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:13 am
by Kenmoria » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:27 am
by BlackLight Covenant » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:41 am
by Araraukar » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:57 am
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: I suggest, on a more general note, Bluefarst, that you try and add some clauses about things other than gender and sex being synonymous and transgender people being incorrect. As this is not supported by science, it will probably have to be removed at some point anyway, so I suggest adding some more points about different topics to your proposal.)
BlackLight Covenant wrote:"Now I might be mistaken here, but I recall there being another, older resolution that also confirms the existence of transgender as a real thing, in which case you will be forced to repeal not one but two resolutions to have your "nullifies the transgender denomination legal meaning" idea come true"
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Al-Diwajah » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:02 pm
Tinfect wrote:The entire framing of this is wrong. Hormones are not some scary chemical boogeyman; its the exact same shit as is produced in the bodies of cis people, with the same effects; there is no coercion into transition-related surgeries, I can absolutely assure you that the closest thing to even encouragement on the subject is neutral doctor talk, or even straight up discouragement. Gender roles have absolutely no connection to transgender people; I defied them before transition, and I defy them now. You can find limitless examples of visibly GNC transpeople if you're looking for a specific kind of presentation.
Sure, hormones are natural. But pumping it into people unnecessarily with an unreachable goal is straight-up stupid. The effect of introducing cross-sexed hormones in the body is usually never good. Some can die, and there is an increased risk of heart attacks and stroke. People who undergo these "treatments" still are glued to mental illness, and potential long-term consequences thus it is not an effective treatment.
As for whether or not gender roles have a connection to trans identified people or not, I would disagree with your conception. In truth, gender is circumscribed to - you guessed it - gender! Trans identified people think they can escape their sex-roles - that is, gender, created by patriarchy - by identifying out of them, calling biology dead, and that through, at times, unfixable cosmetic surgeries and chemical "treatments", they can transition fully and totally. This is illogical. You cannot identify out of gender in the same way you can't with any other social construct. You can't identify out of race, and you can't call pigmentation dead. It's illogical, one exists and the other doesn't. The solution is to throw out what doesn't exist and limits people's freedoms and keep what's real and cannot be gotten rid of! Abolish race, not pigmentation. Abolish gender, not sex. It's simple.Gender Dysphoria has, similarly, no connection to gender roles; gender is similarly constructed, but distinct from gender roles. I'm not a woman because I... I don't know, enjoy housework, (which I can assure you, I don't,) I'm a woman because I, fundamentally, am a woman, regardless of what some sorely mistaken doctors said before I could speak for myself. Transpeople have no desire to be pigeonholed into the roles that bigoted morons demand; often, we are actively punished for not doing so. I know someone who was denied HRT because she's a butch lesbian and didn't want to wear a dress to an appointment with said bigoted moron who held the keys to her treatment.
Gender is stereotypes, it is sex-roles, created by the patriarchy. Men are told to be strong, thus they dominate, and women are told to be weak and subservient, thus through the socialization and internalization of gender, and the systemic power of men, they are oppressed. Gender is how women under patriarchy are oppressed.
Yes, you are right about not being a woman, because being a woman is not an identity, but a biological reality. A woman is an adult human being. Housework, which is usually dictated to woman, is a part of gender, but this does not create womanhood, but rather, contributes to the construct of femininity as a whole.
You seek to imprison yourself to the laws and principles of femininity, even while keeping hold of some aspects of masculinity (because every male has been socialized into this box). Again, femininity ≠ womanhood. You have yet to define and explain what makes you a woman, outside of a vague "I am a woman because I said so." Again, womanhood is based in biological sex, not gender. You can try to be feminine, but it is a created sex-role, and just downright is illogical. Women are trying to escape femininity, why do you find pleasure in joining its ranks? It makes no sense. If you are not content with masculinity, join the movement - eliminate gender, don't create more boxes, or restrict yourself to another.I don't know what to say about this, it's literally just wrong. I can personally assure you, we do not think we're some kind of hyperoppressed minority, that's absurd. Like any other oppressed group, we are uniquely oppressed in specific ways, like the immense transmisogyny you're demonstrating right now. We, like everyone else, have an interest in doing something about hate speech, especially when targeted against us; I hope I don't need to tell you how hate speech is for all intents and purposes violence/calls to violence.
Maybe you don't, but many trans identified individuals see themselves as the most oppressed group to exist. In reality, this is not the case - they are not hyperoppressed. While trans identified individuals do face legal troubles - sometimes (other times, they get away with breaking the law and initiating violence against women) and on a personal basis, face violence inflicted by men and various types of mental illness, this should not override the gains of woman's rights. But it has. Your idea of hate speech is any speech you hate; when women talk about their own biology, the challenges they face, and also scientific explorations into biology which confute the lies of your movement. This speech is shut down and censored by the anti-woman lobbies and ideological, men's rights movements that you possess.
As for transmisogyny, in order for it to exist, it would have to be that men are women. This is not true, thus transmisogyny is not a thing. I display no misogyny towards you or anyone else, because misogyny is sex-based, and sex is unchangeable - decided by God, through sexual determination, with gonads, chromosomes, and genitals, and other biological pieces of humanity. I seek to eradicate misogyny by any means necessary, and guarantee female liberation. But your movement is against this, and seeks to trample it.There is no all-powerful trans lobby. This is plain enough to be self-evident.
This is erogenous, and an outright lie. They shut down the speech of women and force biological men into women's prisons and sex-only spaces, even going as far as forcing biological men - with higher muscle mass - into woman's sports. This is the power of a lobby, where money is sucked up from big corporations, backed by wealthy white men in the first-world (beneficiaries of settler-colonialism, imperialism, and capitalism). It has done everything it can to abolish womanhood and unleashes censorship onto women's groups. The transgender movement is a sexist, anti-woman, elite group of primarily white, privileged men.
Again, if you want to escape the bounds of gender, the solution is abolishing gender, not appropriating womanhood.Maybe it has something to do with the abuse, violence, and more systemic oppression we face on a daily basis. Besides the point, why do you underline hypersexuality? Am I supposed to be super disturbed that trans people like to have sex? Most people do.
You may face abuse or violence, but that's because of - and get ready for this - men. When people try to leave their sex-roles, there is a systemic effort to keep them inside their boxes. I am not saying you do not face issues, you do, but the solution is the abolition of gender as a whole.
As for hypersexuality, it is deplorable. Lust destroys one's consciousness and eliminates energy. It wastes time when its just for pleasure. It's especially wasteful when people are addicted to it, as the drug it is. It releases and pumps out heaps of dopamine, so it has the effects of drugs, and it can easily become an addiction. This is especially true, for whatever reason, with trans identified individuals. Perhaps their identity is tethered to a desire for sex; maybe its an expression of sexual desire. I don't know, but some scientists have suggested this to be true. You are so swept away by psychology, you should therefore look into transvestic fetishism and autogynephilia.Again, your framing is absurd. Second; you're rejecting what are the proven, scientifically successful treatment methods.
Psychology today is by-and-large a pseudo-science. Very little of it is effective, especially when it's commercialized and fitted into the capitalist profit system. Rather than looking at individuals, let's peak at the system, and analyze it. Enough of the liberalism, let's get systemic.Again, this presents the patently wrong idea that transgender people's identities rest on patriarchal bullshit. This, again, is wrong. Trans people cannot be wished away by abolishing gender; it's more than that.
Trans identified people exist as a result of patriarchy, as gender is itself a product of patriarchy. I never said that trans identified people can be wished away, but with the abolition of gender, the system will no longer give rise to them or so-called "cis-gendered people". If gender is done away with, no one can identity into it, and no one would be forced to internalize it.Oh, and, I can't help but laugh at the idea that we should refuse individual treatment in favor of frankly reactionary idealism. You don't get to use the language of liberation to promote such absurdity.
Yes, psychology is bound to the folly of individualism. Down with it, and furthermore, even if it did "work", it doesn't. It's a short-term solution that does not fix anything. We must look beyond the confines of this system, to the future. Ultimately, the final solution is to abolish gender, or at the very least, see that it withers away. To rid the world of gender is liberating, as it smashes old boxes and allows people to expand outside of them, and resist gender oppression, something you wish to perpetuate.Science is not on your side.
You are the one who thinks a social construct is a personal identity, and rejects the biological and scientific basis of sex. But sure, I am the unscientific one here...Race is not a remotely equivalent construct to gender.
They were both constructed to defend systems of oppression. Race was made to defend colonialism, gender was made to defend patriarchy. They are both social constructs with no biological basis, created to serve oppressors.I agree; it's a construct that society would frankly be better off without. But Trans People will continue to exist.
They won't exist, neither will your invention of "cis people". Gender won't exist, so what is there to transition to? Trans identified people and "cis-gendered" people won't exist. Same way that when race is abolished, "white" and "black" people won't exist.Frankly, this is reactionary Strasserite rhetoric, and if you claim to be a leftist of any stripe, you should know better.
I am not a Strasserite. I am not a Strasserite, I am a Muslim - a progressive one. You are a regressive, far-right, anti-woman racist.Finally, the fact that you call this a western thing is hilariously wrong; trans people have existed long before modernity, and countless cultures have had accommodation and recognition of trans and non-binary people, that the west wiped out.
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:08 pm
by Cekoviu » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:49 pm
by Lichpocalypsis » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:01 pm
by The New California Republic » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:16 pm
Lichpocalypsis wrote:OOC: ATHT resolution simply ruins fun for people who want to play countries with hatred towards non-traditional sexual orientation and etc.
by The New Nordic Union » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:18 pm
by Catsfern » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:22 pm
by Tinfect » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:28 pm
Al-Diwajah wrote:Sure, hormones are natural. But pumping it into people unnecessarily with an unreachable goal is straight-up stupid.
Al-Diwajah wrote:The effect of introducing cross-sexed hormones in the body is usually never good. Some can die, and there is an increased risk of heart attacks and stroke. People who undergo these "treatments" still are glued to mental illness, and potential long-term consequences thus it is not an effective treatment.
Al-Diwajah wrote:As for whether or not gender roles have a connection to trans identified people or not, I would disagree with your conception. In truth, gender is circumscribed to - you guessed it - gender! Trans identified people think they can escape their sex-roles - that is, gender, created by patriarchy - by identifying out of them,
Al-Diwajah wrote:calling biology dead,
Al-Diwajah wrote:This is illogical. You cannot identify out of gender in the same way you can't with any other social construct. You can't identify out of race, and you can't call pigmentation dead.
Al-Diwajah wrote:Gender is stereotypes, it is sex-roles, created by the patriarchy.
Al-Diwajah wrote:Yes, you are right about not being a woman
Al-Diwajah wrote:You seek to imprison yourself to the laws and principles of femininity,
Al-Diwajah wrote:(because every male has been socialized into this box).
Al-Diwajah wrote:You can try to be feminine,
Al-Diwajah wrote:Women are trying to escape femininity, why do you find pleasure in joining its ranks?
Al-Diwajah wrote:Maybe you don't, but many trans identified individuals see themselves as the most oppressed group to exist.
Al-Diwajah wrote:While trans identified individuals do face legal troubles - sometimes (other times, they get away with breaking the law and initiating violence against women)
Al-Diwajah wrote:this should not override the gains of woman's rights. But it has.
Al-Diwajah wrote:Your idea of hate speech is any speech you hate;
Al-Diwajah wrote:As for transmisogyny, in order for it to exist, it would have to be that men are women. This is not true, thus transmisogyny is not a thing. I display no misogyny towards you or anyone else, because misogyny is sex-based, and sex is unchangeable - decided by God, through sexual determination, with gonads, chromosomes, and genitals, and other biological pieces of humanity. I seek to eradicate misogyny by any means necessary, and guarantee female liberation. But your movement is against this, and seeks to trample it.
Al-Diwajah wrote:This is erogenous, and an outright lie. They shut down the speech of women and force biological men into women's prisons and sex-only spaces, even going as far as forcing biological men - with higher muscle mass - into woman's sports. This is the power of a lobby, where money is sucked up from big corporations, backed by wealthy white men in the first-world (beneficiaries of settler-colonialism, imperialism, and capitalism). It has done everything it can to abolish womanhood and unleashes censorship onto women's groups. The transgender movement is a sexist, anti-woman, elite group of primarily white, privileged men.
Al-Diwajah wrote:You may face abuse or violence, but that's because of - and get ready for this - men. When people try to leave their sex-roles, there is a systemic effort to keep them inside their boxes. I am not saying you do not face issues, you do, but the solution is the abolition of gender as a whole.
Al-Diwajah wrote:As for hypersexuality, it is deplorable. Lust destroys one's consciousness and eliminates energy. It wastes time when its just for pleasure. It's especially wasteful when people are addicted to it, as the drug it is.
Al-Diwajah wrote:You are so swept away by psychology, you should therefore look into transvestic fetishism and autogynephilia.
Al-Diwajah wrote:Psychology today is by-and-large a pseudo-science. Very little of it is effective, especially when it's commercialized and fitted into the capitalist profit system. Rather than looking at individuals, let's peak at the system, and analyze it. Enough of the liberalism, let's get systemic.
Al-Diwajah wrote:Yes, psychology is bound to the folly of individualism.
Al-Diwajah wrote:To rid the world of gender is liberating, as it smashes old boxes and allows people to expand outside of them, and resist gender oppression, something you wish to perpetuate.
Al-Diwajah wrote:They won't exist, neither will your invention of "cis people". Gender won't exist, so what is there to transition to? Trans identified people and "cis-gendered" people won't exist. Same way that when race is abolished, "white" and "black" people won't exist.
Al-Diwajah wrote:I am not a Strasserite. I am not a Strasserite, I am a Muslim - a progressive one. You are a regressive, far-right, anti-woman racist.
Al-Diwajah wrote:This just is all a lie, you are appropriating other cultures and their history for your ideology. There have been so many indigenous cultures, and in a Eurocentric manner, you just swoop them all up and claim them as one, monogamous being. And all societies have had gender, so therefore, non-binary people have never existed, as per the existence of patriarchy. The system would never allow the opportunity for people to escape boxes and power relations. That's liberal, postmodern nonsense. And your conceptions are racist. Try harder, patriarch.
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Kyoki Chudoku » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:29 pm
by United Constancia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:57 pm
by The New California Republic » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:58 pm
by Araraukar » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:09 pm
Al-Diwajah wrote:And all societies have had gender, so therefore, non-binary people have never existed
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Blueflarst » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:53 am
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