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[DRAFT] Rights of Religious Travellers

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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:29 pm

No. To qualify for government benefits in Kowani, one has to swear an oath rejecting various things, one of which is foreign influence. Missionaries are foreign, due to the irreligious population of the State. As such, to allow missionaries to enter would remove benefits from many of the poor.
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Artsotska
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Founded: Apr 16, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Artsotska » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:07 am

United Massachusetts wrote:
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Rights of Religious Travellers
Category: Civil Rights | Strength: Mild | Proposed by: United Massachusetts

Recalling its longstanding commitment to the preservation of free expression and free worship,

Accepting then, a necessary corollary to those two fundamental rights -- that religious expression and missionary work ought to be legally protected as well,

Believing that when peaceful and non-coercive, missionary work does not pose a harm significant enough to justify its criminalisation,

Also aware that many religious travellers seek to engage in pilgrimage or visit holy sites,

Expressing its firm opinion that such travel, a fundamental aspect of religious freedom, also ought to be legalised,

The General Assembly, with the advice and consent of the delegates and member nations thereof, and by the authority of the same, in this present session assembled, and by the authority of the same:

  1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution, the following terms:
    1. "missionary work" as the act of travelling to another country for the purposes of teaching about religious belief, engaging in faith-based charity work, or spreading a non-violent and otherwise permitted religious belief, including non-belief,
    2. "missionary" as an individual engaged in missionary work,
  2. Prohibits any member-nation from criminalizing the act of non-coercive missionary work, provided that:
    1. the work is done non-violently and in accord with all other relevant national law,
    2. the work does not pose a risk of sparking significant lawlessness, civil unrest, or other significant threats to health or safety,
  3. Declares that no member-nation shall:
    1. inhibit the rights of missionaries to enter a country, on sole account of their desire to engage in non-coercive missionary work,
    2. deny an individual the right to access and visit a public holy site of their faith tradition, except where a compelling practical purpose exists to do so in the name of public health, security, or good order, and where doing so is the least restrictive means of advancing said purpose, subject to reasonable operational and administrative restrictions,
    3. hamper the right of a traveller to possess, read, travel with, or distribute religious literature.

I see nothing wrong with this. I support this proposal. Good work! :)
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Kenmoria
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Posts: 6362
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:15 am

“3c seems potentially dangerous given that you don’t put any qualifications or exceptions. Of course, spreading a holy book that contains only some discriminatory verses to a school for its religious studies lesson is fine, but spreading a collection of homophobic verses to a gay pride parade is clearly designed to incite hatred, and member nations should have the choice of whether or not to allow that.”

United Massachusetts wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:“I actually broadly support this. Your ‘also aware’ clause has two ‘also’s in quite close succession, which is mildly displeasing, but overall I support this measure.”
Marilyn Manson Freaks wrote:I actually fully support this. Creative topic, nice work.

What's with all this "actually" stuff? Do y'all worry about religious resolutions from my delegation or something?

:P

(OOC: Yes, of course. :) )
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:56 pm

IC: "The kind of missionary work where you approach people to talk to them about your nonsense beliefs, whether or not they're as discriminatory as most religious nonsense is, is forbidden in Araraukar as an attempt to cause civil unrest. If that sounds strict to you, it is still better than having to deal with "they tried to convert me" as defence in a murder trial, believe me. We do not prosecute people for being religious or having beliefs that common sense would classify as mental instability, but we can and will stop them from putting themselves in danger of violent reactions. Our nation learned its lessons on religions after a ninety-year long genocidal religious war that left the whole subcontinent in ruins and killed more than three hundred million people in total."

OOC: ^That is on top of the whole anti-immigration policies in general. Oh and the 300M dead includes civilian casualties, which were heavy, since all three major sides in the war considered the best way to stop the competing ideologies being just killing the heretics, rather than wasting resources on trying to change their minds on religion. The modern nation of Araraukar arose from the ruins of that war, with strict "don't ask, don't tell" policies on religion.
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United Massachusetts
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Founded: Jan 17, 2016
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Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:40 am

Bump. I'll claw through this thread today.

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Arachkya
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Founded: Sep 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Arachkya » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:44 am

If this passes we will leave the WA, our government can not allow this evangelical nonsense into our great nation to poison our people with that hippie nonsense.
There is no divine feminine.

My nations policies are not economic, but a deliberate attempt to kill of the spirits and the sacred forests of the Pagan rebels.

My nation does NOT represent my RL views.

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United Massachusetts
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:17 am

Arachkya wrote:If this passes we will leave the WA, our government can not allow this evangelical nonsense into our great nation to poison our people with that hippie nonsense.

Two points: (a) it's Catholic nonsense, not evangelical nonsense, and (b) evangelical nonsense is highly different from hippie nonsense.

QED, AMDG.
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Marxist Germany
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
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Postby Marxist Germany » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:52 am

Arachkya wrote:If this passes we will leave the WA, our government can not allow this evangelical nonsense into our great nation to poison our people with that hippie nonsense.

"You're welcome to leave ambassador, you will not be missed."
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

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Arachkya
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Founded: Sep 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Arachkya » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:57 am

Marxist Germany wrote:
Arachkya wrote:If this passes we will leave the WA, our government can not allow this evangelical nonsense into our great nation to poison our people with that hippie nonsense.

"You're welcome to leave ambassador, you will not be missed."

"When your streets are packed with those yelling idiots, screaming you need to be "saved'' you will soon change your mind sir''
There is no divine feminine.

My nations policies are not economic, but a deliberate attempt to kill of the spirits and the sacred forests of the Pagan rebels.

My nation does NOT represent my RL views.

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Marxist Germany
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:00 pm

Arachkya wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:"You're welcome to leave ambassador, you will not be missed."

"When your streets are packed with those yelling idiots, screaming you need to be "saved'' you will soon change your mind sir''

"I myself am one of those idiots, and Germany is mostly Christian and religious."
Last edited by Marxist Germany on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen and ex-Senior Senator of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
Pro:Laissez-faire, Cultural Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, United Ireland.
Anti:"Progressivism", Abortion, Transgenderism, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.

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Separatist Peoples
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Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:02 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Arachkya wrote:"When your streets are packed with those yelling idiots, screaming you need to be "saved'' you will soon change your mind sir''

"I myself am one of those idiots, and Germany is mostly Christian and religious."


"Well, so long as you're aware of it."

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Arachkya
Envoy
 
Posts: 330
Founded: Sep 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Arachkya » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:03 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Arachkya wrote:"When your streets are packed with those yelling idiots, screaming you need to be "saved'' you will soon change your mind sir''

"I myself am one of those idiots, and Germany is mostly Christian and religious."

"Really?, interesting combination I must say, but regardless, my nation will ignore this resolution if it passes, just like the industrial one"

OOC: I feel like Moammar al-Qadhafi. LOL
There is no divine feminine.

My nations policies are not economic, but a deliberate attempt to kill of the spirits and the sacred forests of the Pagan rebels.

My nation does NOT represent my RL views.

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Marxist Germany
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:26 pm

Arachkya wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:"I myself am one of those idiots, and Germany is mostly Christian and religious."

"Really?, interesting combination I must say, but regardless, my nation will ignore this resolution if it passes, just like the industrial one"

OOC: I feel like Moammar al-Qadhafi. LOL

"Noncompliance leads to heavy sanctions, ambassador."
Separatist Peoples wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:"I myself am one of those idiots, and Germany is mostly Christian and religious."


"Well, so long as you're aware of it."

"As you say, Bell."
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen and ex-Senior Senator of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
Pro:Laissez-faire, Cultural Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, United Ireland.
Anti:"Progressivism", Abortion, Transgenderism, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.

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Arachkya
Envoy
 
Posts: 330
Founded: Sep 05, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Arachkya » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:28 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Arachkya wrote:"Really?, interesting combination I must say, but regardless, my nation will ignore this resolution if it passes, just like the industrial one"

OOC: I feel like Moammar al-Qadhafi. LOL

"Noncompliance leads to heavy sanctions, ambassador."


"All I hear is empty threats mr ambassador, hollow words and empty threats"
Last edited by Arachkya on Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is no divine feminine.

My nations policies are not economic, but a deliberate attempt to kill of the spirits and the sacred forests of the Pagan rebels.

My nation does NOT represent my RL views.

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Bananaistan
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Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:34 pm

"Bananaistan remains opposed on the principle of being opposed to a) cultural imperialism (the natives do not need to hear about the "good news"), and b) allowing non-national bigots spew bile and harass minorities.

"Although in practice it is unlikely that the safety of any such "religious traveller" (IE the homophobic, transphobic and misgynist ones) could be guaranteed and admittance would be refused on that basis."
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.
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Separatist Peoples
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Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:35 pm

Bananaistan wrote:"Bananaistan remains opposed on the principle of being opposed to a) cultural imperialism (the natives do not need to hear about the "good news"), and b) allowing non-national bigots spew bile and harass minorities.

"Although in practice it is unlikely that the safety of any such "religious traveller" (IE the homophobic, transphobic and misgynist ones) could be guaranteed and admittance would be refused on that basis."


"Likewise. The C.D.S.P. doesn't see any reason we should permit missionaries to enter when their very goal is to spread a message at odds with our societal values of egalitarianism, secularism, and inclusivity.

Also, it was hard enough clearing the Catholic diocese out of our nation. We're not altogether interested in giving them another foothold."

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Marxist Germany
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:44 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:"Bananaistan remains opposed on the principle of being opposed to a) cultural imperialism (the natives do not need to hear about the "good news"), and b) allowing non-national bigots spew bile and harass minorities.

"Although in practice it is unlikely that the safety of any such "religious traveller" (IE the homophobic, transphobic and misgynist ones) could be guaranteed and admittance would be refused on that basis."


"Likewise. The C.D.S.P. doesn't see any reason we should permit missionaries to enter when their very goal is to spread a message at odds with our societal values of egalitarianism, secularism, and inclusivity.

Also, it was hard enough clearing the Catholic diocese out of our nation. We're not altogether interested in giving them another foothold."

"Ambassador, I imagine state-enforced atheism is noncompliance with Freedom of Religion."
Country represents RL views mostly. Not Marxist anymore.
Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, GA#486 (co-author), and SC#295

Ex-delegate of The United Federations; citizen and ex-Senior Senator of 10000 Islands | Gaming User#0721(Discord)
RP name: Germany
The National Factbook (WIP)
Ambassador Klaus Schmidt
Political Compass
Pro:Laissez-faire, Cultural Nationalism, Guns, Free speech, Christianity, United Ireland.
Anti:"Progressivism", Abortion, Transgenderism, Socialism, Interventionism, Mass-migration.

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6362
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:03 pm

Bananaistan wrote:"Bananaistan remains opposed on the principle of being opposed to a) cultural imperialism (the natives do not need to hear about the "good news"), and b) allowing non-national bigots spew bile and harass minorities.

"Although in practice it is unlikely that the safety of any such "religious traveller" (IE the homophobic, transphobic and misgynist ones) could be guaranteed and admittance would be refused on that basis."

“Perhaps ambassador Pierce could include an exception for religions that preach hatred or discrimination. I would also like to see an exception granted for when uncontacted peoples have persistently refused contact with the outside world, since this means that they would not wish to be proselytised.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:09 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:
"Likewise. The C.D.S.P. doesn't see any reason we should permit missionaries to enter when their very goal is to spread a message at odds with our societal values of egalitarianism, secularism, and inclusivity.

Also, it was hard enough clearing the Catholic diocese out of our nation. We're not altogether interested in giving them another foothold."

"Ambassador, I imagine state-enforced atheism is noncompliance with Freedom of Religion."

"The C.D.S.P. does not mandate atheism, ambassador. Indeed, the freedom to practice religion is an individual right guaranteed by C.D.S.P. law."

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Bananaistan
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Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:15 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:"Bananaistan remains opposed on the principle of being opposed to a) cultural imperialism (the natives do not need to hear about the "good news"), and b) allowing non-national bigots spew bile and harass minorities.

"Although in practice it is unlikely that the safety of any such "religious traveller" (IE the homophobic, transphobic and misgynist ones) could be guaranteed and admittance would be refused on that basis."

“Perhaps ambassador Pierce could include an exception for religions that preach hatred or discrimination. I would also like to see an exception granted for when uncontacted peoples have persistently refused contact with the outside world, since this means that they would not wish to be proselytised.”

"Contacted peoples who do not wish to be proselytised should also be exempted."
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.
Ideological Bulwark #281

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Maowi
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1059
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maowi » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:41 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“Perhaps ambassador Pierce could include an exception for religions that preach hatred or discrimination.

"That would exclude the vast majority of religions - about which, frankly, I would not complain."

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Ard al Islam
Diplomat
 
Posts: 875
Founded: Apr 14, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Ard al Islam » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:47 pm

Nay.
Nation in the process of rapid change.
Never learn about Islam from Islamophobes. People that are against Islam, probably aren't the best choice to learn about the religion from. You'd never learn science from a flat-earther or anti-vaxxer, right? You'd learn science from scholars, either directly or through their work. Similarly, you should only learn about Islam from the people who are most knowledgeable about it. They are, of course, the Muslims themselves. Learn from the great Islamic scholars, whether directly or through their work/students. If you have questions, you can ask me, and if I don't have the answer(s), I can refer you to a place where you may get those answers.

But whatever you do, don't learn about Islam from non-Muslims.

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Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3705
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:36 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:"As to the proposal: we're undecided at this point. Would a belief system that includes, say, blood libel be considered 'non-violent' if its priests refrain from actually spelling out '...and therefore we shouldn't tolerate them!' ? This assembly's past law on freedom of religion isn't particularly helpful here - it's one thing to permit existing belief systems to continue, but something else entirely to mandate that we allow foreigners to come in and spread racist, sexist, or other bigoted belief systems."


"I don't see in the debate transcript any answer to this question, besides the frankly hand-wavy reply to the Bananamen about 'the vast majority' of religious belief being peaceful and tolerant. If that's the best you've got, Ambassador, we'll have to oppose this resolution."
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Litauengrad
Secretary
 
Posts: 29
Founded: Aug 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Litauengrad » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:13 pm

Comrade Ambassadors,

We will support any resolution that upholds the ability of pilgrims to travel to their holy sites. This is both just and a necessary component of supporting freedom of religion, an obligation we accept not just due to international treaties but through our commitment to human rights.

However, we have no interest in receiving foreign missionaries, considering that evangelization is often a tactic of imperialist powers. We uphold that free discussion, debate, and attempts to convert are a part of freedom of religion, regardless of our personal feelings on the matter. However, we reserve the right to mere proselytization for our own citizens.

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:58 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:"As to the proposal: we're undecided at this point. Would a belief system that includes, say, blood libel be considered 'non-violent' if its priests refrain from actually spelling out '...and therefore we shouldn't tolerate them!' ? This assembly's past law on freedom of religion isn't particularly helpful here - it's one thing to permit existing belief systems to continue, but something else entirely to mandate that we allow foreigners to come in and spread racist, sexist, or other bigoted belief systems."


"I don't see in the debate transcript any answer to this question, besides the frankly hand-wavy reply to the Bananamen about 'the vast majority' of religious belief being peaceful and tolerant. If that's the best you've got, Ambassador, we'll have to oppose this resolution."

"Apologies. We are working on revamping this at the moment."

Kenmoria wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:"Bananaistan remains opposed on the principle of being opposed to a) cultural imperialism (the natives do not need to hear about the "good news"), and b) allowing non-national bigots spew bile and harass minorities.

"Although in practice it is unlikely that the safety of any such "religious traveller" (IE the homophobic, transphobic and misgynist ones) could be guaranteed and admittance would be refused on that basis."

“Perhaps ambassador Pierce could include an exception for religions that preach hatred or discrimination. I would also like to see an exception granted for when uncontacted peoples have persistently refused contact with the outside world, since this means that they would not wish to be proselytised.”

I shall add in these ideas at nearest convenience.

Further, and unrelated to SL's post, I shall ignore any comments insinuating that Christianity, or any other religion, is fundamentally wrong/imperialist/bigoted. Hatred deserves no reply.
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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