[DRAFT] Improving rehabilitation of prisoners

[Araraukar]

"Legislative intent is irrelevant here, ambassador. GA Resolutions are interpreted textually. Silence is exclusion."

"Now you know what the legislation meant. And I'll make sure to fix it for you and everyone else. Do you have any new opposition to the matter, ambassador?"

OOC: What I think SP was trying to say in IC is that there's a rule of thumb for resolution proposals that goes "the resolution only does what it says it does", meaning that if you want it to do something, you need to actually write the clause you want, into it.

How come pickpocketers are lethal? or rude people who shout out disrespectful words. They should be detained, but not stripped of their rational right to vote, cause none of them caused a lethal incident

If you're detaining rude people, you're violating at least one if not two WA resoluions. Also, if the pickpocketer steals a diabetic's insulin, it may result in a lethality. But the point remains, if you don't want to lose your rights, don't break the law.

However, something that SP doesn't take into account likely because they're from USA as well and think their system is the normal one, not all inmates are registered as voters in the municipality/county that the prison is in, in all systems. That's how USA does it - inmates are considered to be "permanent residents" in that location - but that doesn't necessarily work like that elsewhere, or in NS multiverse.

Still, like I said, trying to push for prisoner voting rights is going to be an uphill battle. Are you sure that's something you want to tackle?

[Widowed Land]

Since when is my nation nondemocracit?

Bell stares, and respond slowly: "Ambassador, are you being deliberately obtuse? Nondemocratic nations vote on WA proposals. That gives them a say on regulations on a democratic nation. As such, my delegation opposes any WA proposal that manages our democratic system."

"Ambassador, it's clear as water that nondemocratic nations won't approve this resolution, so instead of uniting against dictators, you become one? For prisoners you are easily speaking, a dictator, for not giving them their right. And how can we achieve your goal of spreading democracies, if one democratic nation opposes another's resolution more than authoritarians do"

[Separatist Peoples]

How come pickpocketers are lethal? or rude people who shout out disrespectful words. They should be detained, but not stripped of their rational right to vote, cause none of them caused a lethal incident

If you're detaining rude people, you're violating at least one if not two WA resoluions. Also, if the pickpocketer steals a diabetic's insulin, it may result in a lethality. But the point remains, if you don't want to lose your rights, don't break the law.

However, something that SP doesn't take into account likely because they're from USA as well and think their system is the normal one, not all inmates are registered as voters in the municipality/county that the prison is in, in all systems. That's how USA does it - inmates are considered to be "permanent residents" in that location - but that doesn't necessarily work like that elsewhere, or in NS multiverse.

Still, like I said, trying to push for prisoner voting rights is going to be an uphill battle. Are you sure that's something you want to tackle?

OOC: Dont try to explain what I'm saying if you don't know what I'm saying Ara. Inmates are not, ipso facto, registered as voters in the prison's municipality in the US. I never tried to suggest that was the case in the US. For that matter, you like to talk a lot of shit about my country, even though I don't see any US regulars here talking shit about yours. Maybe you can cool it, huh?

[Separatist Peoples]

Bell stares, and respond slowly: "Ambassador, are you being deliberately obtuse? Nondemocratic nations vote on WA proposals. That gives them a say on regulations on a democratic nation. As such, my delegation opposes any WA proposal that manages our democratic system."

"Ambassador, it's clear as water that nondemocratic nations won't approve this resolution, so instead of uniting against dictators, you become one? For prisoners you are easily speaking, a dictator, for not giving them their right. And how can we achieve your goal of spreading democracies, if one democratic nation opposes another's resolution more than authoritarians do"

"Ambassador, I care not a bent penny what a convict thinks of me. That they are incarcerated for their own wrongdoing does not make a nation a dictatorship. Put that one back in the deck. I have no goal to expand democracies. I could, personally and professionally, care less if a nation is democratic or autocratic. I do care that nations with an active interest in subverting my nation's system get a say in undermining it when I can't return the favor.

"I remain extremely opposed."

[Widowed Land]

"Now you know what the legislation meant. And I'll make sure to fix it for you and everyone else. Do you have any new opposition to the matter, ambassador?"

OOC: What I think SP was trying to say in IC is that there's a rule of thumb for resolution proposals that goes "the resolution only does what it says it does", meaning that if you want it to do something, you need to actually write the clause you want, into it.

How come pickpocketers are lethal? or rude people who shout out disrespectful words. They should be detained, but not stripped of their rational right to vote, cause none of them caused a lethal incident

If you're detaining rude people, you're violating at least one if not two WA resoluions. Also, if the pickpocketer steals a diabetic's insulin, it may result in a lethality. But the point remains, if you don't want to lose your rights, don't break the law.

However, something that SP doesn't take into account likely because they're from USA as well and think their system is the normal one, not all inmates are registered as voters in the municipality/county that the prison is in, in all systems. That's how USA does it - inmates are considered to be "permanent residents" in that location - but that doesn't necessarily work like that elsewhere, or in NS multiverse.

Still, like I said, trying to push for prisoner voting rights is going to be an uphill battle. Are you sure that's something you want to tackle?

About the pickpocketer: If theft will cause a lethal end then the person is indeed a killer. But if pickpocketer will steal something that will have no influence over target's very existence, then what's the problem?

And yes, fighting for the truth is a good thing.


P.S. I am not from USA. Hello from eastern Europe

[Araraukar]

OOC: Inmates are not, ipso facto, registered as voters in the prison's municipality in the US.

OOC: They are counted as residents, though? As in, counted in the population number. And I meant to remove the bit about registered voters from the post, actually, but apparently forgot.

For that matter, you like to talk a lot of shit about my country

How is it talking shit to say "not everywhere works like the USA"?

Hello from eastern Europe

Russia?

[Widowed Land]

"Ambassador, it's clear as water that nondemocratic nations won't approve this resolution, so instead of uniting against dictators, you become one? For prisoners you are easily speaking, a dictator, for not giving them their right. And how can we achieve your goal of spreading democracies, if one democratic nation opposes another's resolution more than authoritarians do"

"Ambassador, I care not a bent penny what a convict thinks of me. That they are incarcerated for their own wrongdoing does not make a nation a dictatorship. Put that one back in the deck. I have no goal to expand democracies. I could, personally and professionally, care less if a nation is democratic or autocratic. I do care that nations with an active interest in subverting my nation's system get a say in undermining it when I can't return the favor.

"I remain extremely opposed."

"If your honorable delegation will continue to think that your minds cannot be changed, then it will be the case. I think you, as an ambassador should consider every proposal carefully, and twice carefully if it comes from a delegate with same ideology. Sometimes changes are needed and remember!!! Detained or not they are still living beings, and most of them will sometimes in the future leave the jail and regain their lost right. Who will they choose then?"

[Separatist Peoples]

"Ambassador, I care not a bent penny what a convict thinks of me. That they are incarcerated for their own wrongdoing does not make a nation a dictatorship. Put that one back in the deck. I have no goal to expand democracies. I could, personally and professionally, care less if a nation is democratic or autocratic. I do care that nations with an active interest in subverting my nation's system get a say in undermining it when I can't return the favor.

"I remain extremely opposed."

"If your honorable delegation will continue to think that your minds cannot be changed, then it will be the case. I think you, as an ambassador should consider every proposal carefully, and twice carefully if it comes from a delegate with same ideology. Sometimes changes are needed and remember!!! Detained or not they are still living beings, and most of them will sometimes in the future leave the jail and regain their lost right. Who will they choose then?"

"That assumes they will regain that right upon release, ambassador. It also assumes that, since my position is not subject to democratic approval, that I care for whom they may vote. Or how they may feel."

[Widowed Land]

Russia?

Nope ^_^

[Araraukar]

Detained or not

OOC: Do you realize that people in prison have not simply been detained? They have been through a fair trial and convicted of a crime. There's a huuuuuuge difference between that and being detained.

[Orveila]

Bell stares, and respond slowly: "Ambassador, are you being deliberately obtuse? Nondemocratic nations vote on WA proposals. That gives them a say on regulations on a democratic nation. As such, my delegation opposes any WA proposal that manages our democratic system."

"Ambassador, it's clear as water that nondemocratic nations won't approve this resolution, so instead of uniting against dictators, you become one? For prisoners you are easily speaking, a dictator, for not giving them their right. And how can we achieve your goal of spreading democracies, if one democratic nation opposes another's resolution more than authoritarians do"

"Now, now Ambassador resorting to name calling is unbecoming of any member of this body. Again as I have stated and many others have made clear, most of us do not consider the rights of prisoners to be within the realm of an international body; if your government decides that it wants to guarantee the right of voting for prisoners, among other things, it is certainly its prerogative, but don't come here and seek to establish your point of view on the issue onto the rest of us lest the precedent becomes established and exploited by members less savory."

[Widowed Land]

"That assumes they will regain that right upon release, ambassador. It also assumes that, since my position is not subject to democratic approval, that I care for whom they may vote. Or how they may feel."

"That hints that your nation doesn't give back voting right back to ex-detainees, which is even worse than not giving them such rights during the detainment."

[Separatist Peoples]

"That assumes they will regain that right upon release, ambassador. It also assumes that, since my position is not subject to democratic approval, that I care for whom they may vote. Or how they may feel."

"That hints that your nation doesn't give back voting right back to ex-detainees, which is even worse than not giving them such rights during the detainment."

"The C.D.S.P. isn't particularly concerned with your discomfort with our criminal justice system, ambassador."

[Marxist Germany]

Bell stares, and responds slowly...

[Widowed Land]

"Now, now Ambassador resorting to name calling is unbecoming of any member of this body. Again as I have stated and many others have made clear, most of us do not consider the rights of prisoners to be within the realm of an international body; if your government decides that it wants to guarantee the right of voting for prisoners, among other things, it is certainly its prerogative, but don't come here and seek to establish your point of view on the issue onto the rest of us lest the precedent becomes established and exploited by members less savory."

"We have WA to internationally implement laws, that majority of the delegates deem fit. I came with this proposal, because my delegation sees it as worthy to be discussed and even implemented internationally. Don't flat our reject something, before discussing it"

[Araraukar]

"We have WA to internationally implement laws, that majority of the delegates deem fit. I came with this proposal, because my delegation sees it as worthy to be discussed and even implemented internationally. Don't flat our reject something, before discussing it"

"Flat out rejecting an unviable idea is better than wasting everyone's time discussing it."

[Marxist Germany]

"Now, now Ambassador resorting to name calling is unbecoming of any member of this body. Again as I have stated and many others have made clear, most of us do not consider the rights of prisoners to be within the realm of an international body; if your government decides that it wants to guarantee the right of voting for prisoners, among other things, it is certainly its prerogative, but don't come here and seek to establish your point of view on the issue onto the rest of us lest the precedent becomes established and exploited by members less savory."

"We have WA to internationally implement laws, that majority of the delegates deem fit. I came with this proposal, because my delegation sees it as worthy to be discussed and even implemented internationally. Don't flat our reject something, before discussing it"

"Your idea isn't very popular in this room let alone the entire WA, I suggest you abandon it and move on. "

[Widowed Land]

"The C.D.S.P. isn't particularly concerned with your discomfort with our criminal justice system, ambassador."

"Dear Ambassador, I know beforehand that you wouldn't care about my opinion but let me speak out. I ask you why are you in WA? as it seems that you only care about the policies your own nation implement. I might be wrong or not. So far you declared that you don't care anyone's views on this matter"

[Marxist Germany]

"The C.D.S.P. isn't particularly concerned with your discomfort with our criminal justice system, ambassador."

"Dear Ambassador, I know beforehand that you wouldn't care about my opinion but let me speak out. I ask you why are you in WA? as it seems that you only care about the policies your own nation implement. I might be wrong or not. So far you declared that you don't care anyone's views on this matter"

"Separatist Peoples is definitely not in a state of noncompliance with any resolution."

[Widowed Land]

"Flat out rejecting an unviable idea is better than wasting everyone's time discussing it."

"I barely get amazed that delegation from a dictatorship flat out denies elections. I just wonder to what happened to so-called coughspseudocoughs democrats"

[Marxist Germany]

"Flat out rejecting an unviable idea is better than wasting everyone's time discussing it."

"I barely get amazed that delegation from a dictatorship flat out denies elections. I just wonder to what happened to so-called coughspseudocoughs democrats"

"I am very confused as to why your delegation believes that people who harm society should be allowed to decide how that society functions"

[Orveila]

"We have WA to internationally implement laws, that majority of the delegates deem fit. I came with this proposal, because my delegation sees it as worthy to be discussed and even implemented internationally. Don't flat our reject something, before discussing it"

"We are all well aware of the purpose of this Assembly, particularly it's role of implementing laws on matters of international importance. This does not change our stance that prisoner conditions and by extension criminal justice are internal matters of state that the World Assembly has no authority or business intervening in."

[Widowed Land]

"I am very confused as to why your delegation believes that people who harm society should be allowed to decide how that society functions"

"The reason is simple. We believe that humans should have influence on their future. Elections in nations and referendums have direct and indirect influence on lives of the population. And WA delegations frequently confuse our clause, which mandates to grant voting right to detainees with light felony. Of course terrorists, serial killers, massive robbers and traitors aren't meant in that clause"

[Marxist Germany]

"I am very confused as to why your delegation believes that people who harm society should be allowed to decide how that society functions"

"The reason is simple. We believe that humans should have influence on their future. Elections in nations and referendums have direct and indirect influence on lives of the population. And WA delegations frequently confuse our clause, which mandates to grant voting right to detainees with light felony. Of course terrorists, serial killers, massive robbers and traitors aren't meant in that clause"

"If someone is detained for a light felony, one may safely assume that their sentence should be short"

[Separatist Peoples]

"The C.D.S.P. isn't particularly concerned with your discomfort with our criminal justice system, ambassador."

"Dear Ambassador, I know beforehand that you wouldn't care about my opinion but let me speak out. I ask you why are you in WA? as it seems that you only care about the policies your own nation implement. I might be wrong or not. So far you declared that you don't care anyone's views on this matter"

"Because there are issues of genuine international importance out there. Not...whatever this is. And because I am extremely confident that this is dead on arrival."