[ABANDONED] The Treatment of those accused Serious Offences,

[Kenmoria]

OOC: Maybe I'm just ignorant of how typical business in the UN/EU etc work but why are we trying to use an international body to dictate how to handle sexual assault accusations? Most nations have adequate laws to address intentionally defaming someone, this is nowhere near necessary to involve international groups.

(OOC: The main argument I can see for this legislation would be that this covers a right not to be defamed, and one of the most important things the WA does is uphold universal freedoms. I suggest capitalising further on this idea in the preamble, Heraswed.)

[Marxist Germany]

OOC: Maybe I'm just ignorant of how typical business in the UN/EU etc work but why are we trying to use an international body to dictate how to handle sexual assault accusations? Most nations have adequate laws to address intentionally defaming someone, this is nowhere near necessary to involve international groups.

"This same body forces nations to allow abortion on demand"

[Araraukar]

"This same body forces nations to allow abortion on demand"

OOC: Don't try to thredjack/derail with an unrelated topic like abortion.

[Prydania]

“It is the Prydanian delegation’s opinion that this proposal is unnecessary and harmful. Any positive merit it may have could better be addressed by legislation dealing with filing false police reports in general. By attempting to single out those accused of sexual assault? The author of the proposal makes his intentions clear.”

“That he has stated, openly, that he considers someone accused of sexual assault a victim, rather than the alleged victim themselves? Only confirms our delegation’s suspicion. That being that this proposal is fuelled by a paranoid suspicion of ‘media bias’ and an inane belief in a conspiracy against straight men. To the ambassador from Heraswed I say this. The belief that men are unfairly treated in cases such as these is a fantasy. Your adherence to it makes your delegation seem like it is willing to traffic in such nonsense to undermine a woman’s ability to report a rape or attempted rape.”

“As such? We oppose in the unlikely event that this gets to a vote.”

[Linux and the X]

Why is this limited to sex crimes?

[Kenmoria]

Why is this limited to sex crimes?

(OOC: I’ve been wondering this too. Although there seem to be more false accusations of sex crimes in real life, that is real life and not the universe of the WA. I suggest to the author that this be changed around to cover all serious crimes, possibly with one or two clauses focusing on sex crimes if you want to do so.)

[Heraswed]

Why is this limited to sex crimes?

(OOC: I’ve been wondering this too. Although there seem to be more false accusations of sex crimes in real life, that is real life and not the universe of the WA. I suggest to the author that this be changed around to cover all serious crimes, possibly with one or two clauses focusing on sex crimes if you want to do so.)

OOC: I like it, I'm unfortunately still trying to integrate the changes suggested the previous evening so this may take me some time.

[Heraswed]

I'm looking to define a 'serious crime' as
A crime for which the punishment can be in excess of 10 years in prison
Does anyone agree, or have a better idea?

[Kenmoria]

I'm looking to define a 'serious crime' as
A crime for which the punishment can be in excess of 10 years in prison
Does anyone agree, or have a better idea?

(OOC: I would steer clear of crimes deifined by punishment, as punishments can vary a lot depending on circumstance and invididual culture. Instead, I recommend either going for a list that just states every crime considered serious, or defining crimes as necessarily including some components, such as that they must involve killing, involve sexual assault, affect over twelve individuals, or involve theft of highly valuable items.)

[Araraukar]

(OOC: Although there seem to be more false accusations of sex crimes in real life)

OOC: Without even looking, I'm fairly sure that there are more false accusations of non-sexual assault, especially as in domestic abuse. And theft. Accusing someone of rape has a very high treshold due to the media assault on the victim.

[Heraswed]

“What is the category and strength of this proposal? Also, are your ‘Requests’ clauses intended to be mandatory or optional?”

Category would be Civil rights, Strength, probably broad.

Honestly, the Requests clauses are intended to be mandatory but I couldn't think of many more operative phrases which are mandatory in nature.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

(OOC: Although there seem to be more false accusations of sex crimes in real life)

OOC: Without even looking, I'm fairly sure that there are more false accusations of non-sexual assault, especially as in domestic abuse. And theft. Accusing someone of rape has a very high treshold due to the media assault on the victim.

((OOC: Not so much of a 'media assault' if neither victim nor accuser are famous.))

[Araraukar]

OOC: You probably should have made a new thread for a completely different draft. Also, clause 2 is still a no go when court happenings (forgot the fancy wording) are public, and the press is free to publish whatever it wants, pretty much.

[Bears Armed]

Why is this limited to sex crimes?

OOC: because people accused of those often tend to face more public prejudice than people accused of other offences?

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Why is this limited to sex crimes?

OOC: because people accused of those often tend to face more public prejudice than people accused of other offences?

OOC: [citation needed]
Anyway, I'm in agreement with previous posters that the treatment of actual bona fide sexual assault victims by the media and court systems renders this proposal a terrible idea unless broadened to include false accusations of all crimes.

IC: "Ambassador, like other delegations we fail to see the need for this. We already have WA law against defamation, and I doubt any nation anywhere fails to penalize those who waste police time with false reports. What dire injustice are you seeing, here?"

[Heraswed]

IC: "Ambassador, like other delegations we fail to see the need for this. We already have WA law against defamation, and I doubt any nation anywhere fails to penalize those who waste police time with false reports. What dire injustice are you seeing, here?"

"The sad fact is that not only do false accusations have the potential ruin people's lives, this is usually before any conviction. And those who suffer a false accusation and all the awful consequences with it often see little justice, with historical cases such as the Duke Lacross case showing that accusers can face no charges, like Crystal Magnum in the aforementioned case."

[Kenmoria]

“What is the category and strength of this proposal? Also, are your ‘Requests’ clauses intended to be mandatory or optional?”

Category would be Civil rights, Strength, probably broad.

Honestly, the Requests clauses are intended to be mandatory but I couldn't think of many more operative phrases which are mandatory in nature.

(OOC: Broad isn’t a strength; you have mild, significant and strong from which to choose. I suggest ‘Compells’, ‘Orders’ or ‘Obligates.)

[Heraswed]

Category would be Civil rights, Strength, probably broad.

Honestly, the Requests clauses are intended to be mandatory but I couldn't think of many more operative phrases which are mandatory in nature.

(OOC: Broad isn’t a strength; you have mild, significant and strong from which to choose. I suggest ‘Compells’, ‘Orders’ or ‘Obligates.)

OOC: In that case, I'd say significant

[Kenmoria]

“I feel like I should mention that you haven’t actually included sex offences in your list of serious crimes; you might want to revisit that.”

[Araraukar]

2. Further Defines a serious crime as a crime which implicates the accused in one or more of the following events:

c. The injury of more than two people,

OOC: So four kids have a scuffle and three of them are scratched by the fourth (who also gets bruises and whatnot, but no scratches), and the scratching kid is now a criminal? Perhaps "serious" should be added before "injury".

[Jebslund]

2. Further Defines a serious crime as a crime which implicates the accused in one or more of the following events:

c. The injury of more than two people,

OOC: So four kids have a scuffle and three of them are scratched by the fourth (who also gets bruises and whatnot, but no scratches), and the scratching kid is now a criminal? Perhaps "serious" should be added before "injury".

[OOC: I'm sorry, are kids usually charged with criminal offenses after these scuffles? This seems like useless nitpicking, seeing as playground scuffles, AFAIK, aren't usually considered crimes.]

[Kenmoria]

2. Further Defines a serious crime as a crime which implicates the accused in one or more of the following events:

c. The injury of more than two people,

OOC: So four kids have a scuffle and three of them are scratched by the fourth (who also gets bruises and whatnot, but no scratches), and the scratching kid is now a criminal? Perhaps "serious" should be added before "injury".

(OOC: It must be a crime that involves one of the four items. Therefore, unless the injuries were serious enough to warrant being made crimes, which would defeat the purpose of your objection, the proposal doesn’t cover that at all.)

[Heraswed]

“I feel like I should mention that you haven’t actually included sex offences in your list of serious crimes; you might want to revisit that.”

"*Facepalms*'

[Hatzisland]

Supportive. However, I think you should clarify that a "false accusation" should be proved verifiably false, along with clarify that both the accused and the accuser are innocent until proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Wallenburg]

OOC: So four kids have a scuffle and three of them are scratched by the fourth (who also gets bruises and whatnot, but no scratches), and the scratching kid is now a criminal? Perhaps "serious" should be added before "injury".

[OOC: I'm sorry, are kids usually charged with criminal offenses after these scuffles? This seems like useless nitpicking, seeing as playground scuffles, AFAIK, aren't usually considered crimes.]

They would be under this proposal.