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by New Bremerton » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:31 am
by Falcania » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:54 am
New Bremerton wrote:We believe that the administration of justice should ideally range between rehabilitation for minor crimes all the way to the punitive end of the spectrum, whereby the most violent, bloodletting criminals are awarded the death penalty for murder as well as any crimes that involve an element of murder such as terrorism, genocide and war crimes. Why should a religiously fanatical terrorist who has killed dozens of innocent civilians in a subway station and permanently injured hundreds more through the use of a nerve gas be offered a second chance? Rehabilitation would be absurd in that instance. This proposal would mandate the rehabilitation of such a vile criminal as a "first resort", per clause 3. For this Assembly's information, the criminal in question was executed by asphyxiation in a sealed gas chamber, using the same gas that the criminal dispensed upon his victims. The very thought of rehabilitation never crossed the minds of anyone in New Bremerton. This was more than a decade before we joined the WA.
AGAINST.
by The Discipled » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:04 am
2. Punitive justice shall not be entirely erased, but rather downgraded and integrated to the rehabilitative.
by Bears Armed » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:05 am
Danera wrote:1. Rehabilitative justice should be used as first resort so one could more easily leave the "life of crime" they once entered.
a) The State should provide services specialized for those rehabilitated to avoid relapse IF needed. As examples, Welfare programs for rehabilitated criminals in precarious situations or psychological service for people with mental health problems
b) If one passes through rehabilitative programs in excess, it proves inability or lack of interest to change, and the national judicial system should decide what to do of a person who abused from the rehabilitative system (it may be seen as an infraction)
by Danera » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:30 am
New Bremerton wrote:We believe that the administration of justice should ideally range between rehabilitation for minor crimes all the way to the punitive end of the spectrum. [...] The very thought of rehabilitation never crossed the minds of anyone in New Bremerton. This was more than a decade before we joined the WA.
AGAINST.
Bears Armed wrote:Danera wrote:1. Rehabilitative justice should be used as first resort so one could more easily leave the "life of crime" they once entered.
a) The State should provide services specialized for those rehabilitated to avoid relapse IF needed. As examples, Welfare programs for rehabilitated criminals in precarious situations or psychological service for people with mental health problems
b) If one passes through rehabilitative programs in excess, it proves inability or lack of interest to change, and the national judicial system should decide what to do of a person who abused from the rehabilitative system (it may be seen as an infraction)
OOC
The bit that I've underlined needs to stipulate that the national judicial system's decisions about this must be subject to any restrictions set by earlier resolutions which are still in force.
by Kenmoria » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:04 am
by Kenmoria » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:22 am
by Danera » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:11 am
Kenmoria wrote:“Also, and this should probably have been asked at the start, what is the intended category and strength of this proposal?”
by Kenmoria » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:28 am
by Danera » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:32 am
Kenmoria wrote:Danera wrote:I was between Mild and Significant. What do you think? Is Mild more fitting?
(OOC: I suggest going with a significant strength since this affects a broad policy area in a substantial way. Sentencing of criminals is key to a lot of nations, so I don’t think a mild strength would fit. What about the category?)
by Araraukar » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:53 am
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Aclion » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:57 am
Araraukar wrote:OOC: What of crimes that the WA considers heinous but the nation doesn't? Can the nation let slide with just "naughty, don't do that" (and call it rehabilitation) something that would be a war crime? I'm fairly sure you can only be punished once for one crime, so other nations can't re-try them for the same offence.
EDIT: Also, "should" is just wishful thinking. That clause isn't as strong as you might think.
OUTLAWS retrials except where significant and compelling miscarriages of justice can result from allowing the verdict previously reached to stand,
by Araraukar » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:18 pm
Aclion wrote:Araraukar wrote:OOC: What of crimes that the WA considers heinous but the nation doesn't? Can the nation let slide with just "naughty, don't do that" (and call it rehabilitation) something that would be a war crime? I'm fairly sure you can only be punished once for one crime, so other nations can't re-try them for the same offence.
EDIT: Also, "should" is just wishful thinking. That clause isn't as strong as you might think.
GA#198OUTLAWS retrials except where significant and compelling miscarriages of justice can result from allowing the verdict previously reached to stand,
Like in real life, it's not double jeopardy if you were never in jeopardy in the first place.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by New Bremerton » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:06 pm
Falcania wrote:New Bremerton wrote:We believe that the administration of justice should ideally range between rehabilitation for minor crimes all the way to the punitive end of the spectrum, whereby the most violent, bloodletting criminals are awarded the death penalty for murder as well as any crimes that involve an element of murder such as terrorism, genocide and war crimes. Why should a religiously fanatical terrorist who has killed dozens of innocent civilians in a subway station and permanently injured hundreds more through the use of a nerve gas be offered a second chance? Rehabilitation would be absurd in that instance. This proposal would mandate the rehabilitation of such a vile criminal as a "first resort", per clause 3. For this Assembly's information, the criminal in question was executed by asphyxiation in a sealed gas chamber, using the same gas that the criminal dispensed upon his victims. The very thought of rehabilitation never crossed the minds of anyone in New Bremerton. This was more than a decade before we joined the WA.
AGAINST.
Just want to straighten this logic out in my head: killing people with nerve gas is bad, unless you're the government, in which case, killing people with nerve gas is fine?
Danera wrote:b) A nation may have laws that lower the penalty of someone who committed a heinous crime unless such person has already committed such crimes.
If you decide that such heinous crime as a terrorist act (that case you describe counts as mass murder, psychological torture, direct torture and so on) aren't a eligible crime for rehabilitation, so do it. With that said, I agree my phrasing was poorly made.
by Dunmoyle » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:41 pm
by Kyoki Chudoku » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:50 pm
by Marxist Germany » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Danera wrote:First draft of my proposal on Incarceration & Punitive Justice. Thoughts?
Category: Civil Rights
Strength: Significant
CONCERNED by the state of prisons and other incarceration-directed institutions that are created in essentia for the punishment of those who do not abide by a country's law
BELIEVING that the State and Government should take in account the reasons behind a minor crime as they can be justifiable
RECOGNIZING the fact that the poor are more prone to resorting to a life of crime than those who are privileged by the system
AWARE of the fact that truly dangerous members of the society may cause further issues in the future after being released
HEREBY ESTABLISHES that every nation-member must abide to these laws:
1. Rehabilitative justice must be used as first resort so one could more easily leave the "life of crime" they once entered.
a) The State must provide services specialized for those rehabilitated to avoid relapse IF needed. As examples, Welfare programs for rehabilitated criminals in precarious situations or psychological service for people with mental health problems
2. Punitive justice shall not be erased from a nation's system unless it is the wish of such nation's internal system. Imprisonment, it being at private-owned or public-owned prisons, shall not be created with the objective of being a punition, nor degrade an imprisoned to the point of psychological damage.
3. Rehabilitative justice may not be used only for those who committed minor crimes, but for all criminals unless the government decides that certains heinous crimes make one not eligible for rehabilitation.
a) People with criminal desires shall be able to request the state for a mental health professional and/or a preemptive rehabilitative system
c) For those with aggravations (that extends but is not limited mass murder, public murder and etc), the rehabilitative programs shan't be offered.
a) A heinous crime is here defined by anything that hurts the right to life or body autonomy that one or a group posseses as a sentient being, and that extends but is not limited to Mental or Physical Abuse, Torture, Murder and so on.
b) A nation can, if it chooses to, have laws that lower the penalty of someone who committed a heinous crime and requested for rehabilitation unless such person has already committed such crimes, that is to say, if they have criminal records.
5. Rehabilitation shall be obligatory for one after they committed a crime and if refused by the lawbreaker, a nation should follow the article 1b instructions.
a) Rehabilitation should be priority for those with aextended list of criminal records.
b) This does not apply for heinous crimes a nation chooses to offer no rehabilitative program for.
c) A nation can choose to offer rehabilitative programs only for those with extended criminal records.
6. If a person who hasn't committed any crime but entered the rehabilitative program by their own will wishes to stop the program, the right shall be granted
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