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[Draft/Idea] WA Constitution/WA Reform

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Do you support the WA Constitution Resolution? (You can change your vote.)

Yes
14
27%
No
37
73%
 
Total votes : 51

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Aclion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5775
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:04 pm

Gwezo wrote:This entire proposal is idiotic at best.

rood
XKI:Deputy WA Secretary, former TITO Tactical Officer and Emissary to Forest[/region]
TEP: former Deputy Minister for WA affairs
Forest: Cartographer Emeritus
Oatland: Consul ,Caesar and Cartographer Emeritus

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Maowi
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1059
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maowi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:38 pm

Aclion wrote:
Gwezo wrote:This entire proposal is idiotic at best.

rood


But troo.

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The New Nordic Union
Diplomat
 
Posts: 537
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The New Nordic Union » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:16 pm

OOC:
I was under the impression that joke proposals had their own thread.
Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly: Katrin við Keldu

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Borovan3
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 186
Founded: Mar 23, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Borovan3 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:18 pm

Against on proposal.
Last edited by Borovan3 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Maowi
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1059
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maowi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:39 pm

The New Nordic Union wrote:OOC:
I was under the impression that joke proposals had their own thread.


Ouch
Such burn...

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Republicanana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 108
Founded: Jul 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Republicanana » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:44 pm

The New Nordic Union wrote:OOC:
I was under the impression that joke proposals had their own thread.

The real joke is why WA members do not want to improve the system of the WA.

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Maowi
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1059
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maowi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:53 pm

Republicanana wrote:
The New Nordic Union wrote:OOC:
I was under the impression that joke proposals had their own thread.

The real joke is why WA members do not want to improve the system of the WA.


Can you actually give any legitimate problems with the wa right now which would justify a huge upheaval of the code and game mechanics?

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:00 pm

Republicanana wrote:
The New Nordic Union wrote:OOC:
I was under the impression that joke proposals had their own thread.

The real joke is why WA members do not want to improve the system of the WA.

Nothing here has been articulated that hasn't been considered and rejected. This isn't new.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Kyoki Chudoku
Diplomat
 
Posts: 771
Founded: Apr 28, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kyoki Chudoku » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:09 pm

Tokiko Suou declined to make comment on the proposal, a choice likely inspire by her struggle to hold back laughter.

OOC: Even if it were possible, I do not agree with this proposal.

An overall President is pointless.

Enforcing WA regulations on non-WA nations will never happen. Ever. It’s blatantly unfair. RP-wise of course, it’d be ignored, but I kind of ignore WA stuff outside of the WA forums just because of what my nation is really like even though I’m in it, so that’s hardly new.

By requirements of the game mechanics, raiders have to become a part of the WA for at least a little bit to actually do anything. So do defenders. And like, everyone doing that sort of stuff. A WA army in the OOC sense is a terrible idea. And nobody would agree to one IC, either, which is also a terrible idea, so...

Overall, I see no reason whatsoever to support this proposal. Everything it changes, it makes worse in my opinion, and the rest is stuff I just don’t care about to begin with.
This nation exists for fun and insanity, not to represent my actual views which are much more mundane and boring.
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The Sheika
Diplomat
 
Posts: 657
Founded: Jul 27, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Sheika » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:11 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Republicanana wrote:The real joke is why WA members do not want to improve the system of the WA.

Nothing here has been articulated that hasn't been considered and rejected. This isn't new.

OOC: Reading over the draft as well as the additional comments, a lot of it seems familiar. Wanting to change code (more than likely to never happen) calling for "leadership" of the WA. Sounds vaguely familiar, but still unnecessary.
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Department of International Affairs
Militaristic Federation of the Sheika
Regional Delegate of Absolution

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Republicanana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 108
Founded: Jul 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Republicanana » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:29 pm

Kyoki Chudoku wrote:Tokiko Suou declined to make comment on the proposal, a choice likely inspire by her struggle to hold back laughter.

OOC: Even if it were possible, I do not agree with this proposal.

An overall President is pointless.

Enforcing WA regulations on non-WA nations will never happen. Ever. It’s blatantly unfair. RP-wise of course, it’d be ignored, but I kind of ignore WA stuff outside of the WA forums just because of what my nation is really like even though I’m in it, so that’s hardly new.

By requirements of the game mechanics, raiders have to become a part of the WA for at least a little bit to actually do anything. So do defenders. And like, everyone doing that sort of stuff. A WA army in the OOC sense is a terrible idea. And nobody would agree to one IC, either, which is also a terrible idea, so...

Overall, I see no reason whatsoever to support this proposal. Everything it changes, it makes worse in my opinion, and the rest is stuff I just don’t care about to begin with.


Why is true WA reform a joke to certain people? Let's work together instead of arguing back-and-fourth.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:30 pm

Republicanana wrote:
Kyoki Chudoku wrote:Tokiko Suou declined to make comment on the proposal, a choice likely inspire by her struggle to hold back laughter.

OOC: Even if it were possible, I do not agree with this proposal.

An overall President is pointless.

Enforcing WA regulations on non-WA nations will never happen. Ever. It’s blatantly unfair. RP-wise of course, it’d be ignored, but I kind of ignore WA stuff outside of the WA forums just because of what my nation is really like even though I’m in it, so that’s hardly new.

By requirements of the game mechanics, raiders have to become a part of the WA for at least a little bit to actually do anything. So do defenders. And like, everyone doing that sort of stuff. A WA army in the OOC sense is a terrible idea. And nobody would agree to one IC, either, which is also a terrible idea, so...

Overall, I see no reason whatsoever to support this proposal. Everything it changes, it makes worse in my opinion, and the rest is stuff I just don’t care about to begin with.


Why is true WA reform a joke to certain people? Let's work together instead of arguing back-and-fourth.

OOC: Because the changes you are trying to make are unnecessary, against the rules, and are designed to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Republicanana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 108
Founded: Jul 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Republicanana » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:34 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Republicanana wrote:
Why is true WA reform a joke to certain people? Let's work together instead of arguing back-and-fourth.

OOC: Because the changes you are trying to make are unnecessary, against the rules, and are designed to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist.


It does exist, and I do not know have WA Secretariats do not know what is going on in the WA.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:37 pm

Republicanana wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Because the changes you are trying to make are unnecessary, against the rules, and are designed to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist.


It does exist, and I do not know have WA Secretariats do not know what is going on in the WA.

The Secretariats are acutely aware of what happens in the GA and what needs to happen in the GA.

You argue that the GA needs order, but haven't explained A. what order would do for the forum that is better than the current system, and B. why order in the hands of one player is better than chaos where all players get a say.

Not that this matters. If you submit a proposal that includes Metagaming or Game Mechanics violations, I, and the other members of GenSec, will remove it.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Arasi Luvasa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:46 pm

I believe most of the GA regulars are here and stating that they do not want the change. You really should just move on as you won't improve it for those who are most affected (i.e. the people who frequent this forum).
Ambassador Ariela Galadriel Maria Mirase
37 year old Arch-bishop of the Arasi Christian Church (also the youngest ever arch-bishop and fifth woman in the church hierarchy). An attractive but stern woman with a strict adherence to religious and moral ethical codes, also somewhat of an optimist. She was recently appointed to the position following the election of Adrian Midnight to the position of Patriarch.

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Republicanana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 108
Founded: Jul 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Republicanana » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:03 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Republicanana wrote:
It does exist, and I do not know have WA Secretariats do not know what is going on in the WA.

The Secretariats are acutely aware of what happens in the GA and what needs to happen in the GA.

You argue that the GA needs order, but haven't explained A. what order would do for the forum that is better than the current system, and B. why order in the hands of one player is better than chaos where all players get a say.

Not that this matters. If you submit a proposal that includes Metagaming or Game Mechanics violations, I, and the other members of GenSec, will remove it.



1. Organizing into committees, which could be easily done on the forums with new thread could easily bring more order into the process than the free-for-all to get delegates. It will simply be another lane resolutions to go onto the floor.

2. It seems like the opinion is that the WA President would basically be a dictator. In fact, the WA President would have very limited power.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:06 pm

Republicanana wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:The Secretariats are acutely aware of what happens in the GA and what needs to happen in the GA.

You argue that the GA needs order, but haven't explained A. what order would do for the forum that is better than the current system, and B. why order in the hands of one player is better than chaos where all players get a say.

Not that this matters. If you submit a proposal that includes Metagaming or Game Mechanics violations, I, and the other members of GenSec, will remove it.



1. Organizing into committees, which could be easily done on the forums with new thread could easily bring more order into the process than the free-for-all to get delegates. It will simply be another lane resolutions to go onto the floor.

2. It seems like the opinion is that the WA President would basically be a dictator. In fact, the WA President would have very limited power.


GenSec enforces the rules. Nobody on GenSec will agree to pick players to have authority over drafting. That's exclusionary to players.

If the president has no power, what is the point of having a president?

Again, this is academic. Anything you submit that involves this will be removed.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Arasi Luvasa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:08 pm

Ok first of all, write an essay length description of what you envision if you think it is so great and we just aren't seeing your whole plan (write every single detail of your plan, don't leave anything up to the imagination). Second, a president in a game is likely going to end up acting like a dictator. Either that or they will just be ignored. But if you want people to even consider this, you are going to need very detailed and well thought out plans. Even then it is likely to get shot down.
Ambassador Ariela Galadriel Maria Mirase
37 year old Arch-bishop of the Arasi Christian Church (also the youngest ever arch-bishop and fifth woman in the church hierarchy). An attractive but stern woman with a strict adherence to religious and moral ethical codes, also somewhat of an optimist. She was recently appointed to the position following the election of Adrian Midnight to the position of Patriarch.

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Republicanana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 108
Founded: Jul 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Republicanana » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:11 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Republicanana wrote:

1. Organizing into committees, which could be easily done on the forums with new thread could easily bring more order into the process than the free-for-all to get delegates. It will simply be another lane resolutions to go onto the floor.

2. It seems like the opinion is that the WA President would basically be a dictator. In fact, the WA President would have very limited power.


GenSec enforces the rules. Nobody on GenSec will agree to pick players to have authority over drafting. That's exclusionary to players.

If the president has no power, what is the point of having a president?

Again, this is academic. Anything you submit that involves this will be removed.


Allowing players to help draft legislation is excluding same players? :eyebrow: :eyebrow:
Plus, I said the President would have very limited power not no power.

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Maowi
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1059
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Maowi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:14 pm

Republicanana wrote:Allowing players to help draft legislation is excluding same players? :eyebrow: :eyebrow:
Plus, I said the President would have very limited power not no power.


Players already can help draft legislation - that's what this forum is for! Sep's point is that by creating committees for drafting, you'd be limiting that.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:14 pm

Republicanana wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:
GenSec enforces the rules. Nobody on GenSec will agree to pick players to have authority over drafting. That's exclusionary to players.

If the president has no power, what is the point of having a president?

Again, this is academic. Anything you submit that involves this will be removed.


Allowing players to help draft legislation is excluding same players? :eyebrow: :eyebrow:
Plus, I said the President would have very limited power not no power.


Committees must form some function. That function is either to create bureaucracy by forcing nations to draft with the committee members rather than with the players writ large, or their function is to operate as a throttle to ideas. Either way, it establishes a de facto hierarchy among players. Which is bad.

If you give one player special gameside power over the game, it has a negative impact on the rest. That isn't going to happen.

Bad ideas are bad. Do not submit. Will be removed.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20789
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Wallenburg » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:17 pm

Since you don't seem to have noticed yet, I'll pile on: this is extremely illegal by the metagaming and game mechanics rules. Read those rules here. Stop complaining about how everyone doesn't like your ideas and start getting rid of all the illegal bits. If you remove all the illegalities and somehow have a single clause left over, then we can talk.

If you have no interest in a legal proposal and instead want to change the game itself, take it to Technical where such things belong. They will tell you no for their own reasons.
THERE IS NO WAR IN BA SING SE
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Viceroy for The East Pacific

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Republicanana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 108
Founded: Jul 04, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Republicanana » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:20 pm

Wallenburg wrote:Since you don't seem to have noticed yet, I'll pile on: this is extremely illegal by the metagaming and game mechanics rules. Read those rules here. Stop complaining about how everyone doesn't like your ideas and start getting rid of all the illegal bits. If you remove all the illegalities and somehow have a single clause left over, then we can talk.

If you have no interest in a legal proposal and instead want to change the game itself, take it to Technical where such things belong. They will tell you no for their own reasons.


Tell me some WA reforms that would be legal then underneath the rules.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 15315
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:22 pm

Republicanana wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Since you don't seem to have noticed yet, I'll pile on: this is extremely illegal by the metagaming and game mechanics rules. Read those rules here. Stop complaining about how everyone doesn't like your ideas and start getting rid of all the illegal bits. If you remove all the illegalities and somehow have a single clause left over, then we can talk.

If you have no interest in a legal proposal and instead want to change the game itself, take it to Technical where such things belong. They will tell you no for their own reasons.


Tell me some WA reforms that would be legal then underneath the rules.

Nothing that changes the game code. Look at the Passed Resolutions thread. Look at how resolutions work. Write one if you want.

His Worshipfulness Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Morover
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1108
Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Libertarian Police State

Postby Morover » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:23 pm

A screen shows a group of people, standing in front of the Morovian Flag, alongside the flag of the World Assembly. The man at the front of the group opens his mouth, obviously trying to hold back laughter.

"I'm sorry, I just had to get Morover's entire WA Department in here to see this. Thanks for the good laugh, sir. You're going to do great things. They'll be absolutely fantastic." He manages to get out before snorting.

And, with that, the room erupts into laughter, and the transmission cuts out.

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