by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:15 pm
by Tinfect » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:17 pm
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:18 pm
by Tinfect » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:22 pm
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:25 pm
Tinfect wrote:
OOC:
First of all, don't even pretend to frame this as a freedom of speech issue. You know as well as I that it's nothing of the sort.
Second, as a member of a group that hate speech is frequently spoken about, some bigoted piece of shit going on a transphobic rant actively threatens my life.
by LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:28 pm
Tinfect wrote:
OOC:
First of all, don't even pretend to frame this as a freedom of speech issue. You know as well as I that it's nothing of the sort.
Second, as a member of a group that hate speech is frequently spoken about, some bigoted piece of shit going on a transphobic rant actively threatens my life.
by Tinhampton » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 pm
No surrender ever wrote:We resolve
1. To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant
by Tinfect » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 pm
No surrender ever wrote:This is a issue about freedom of speech, proof that it is not?
No surrender ever wrote:Any suggestions on formatting?
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:OOC: 1. This is a fictional piece of legislation that applies to fictional counties.
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:2. Some bigot going on a rant doesn't automatically threaten your life, and this resolution can be amended to exclude direct threats of violence.
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Morover » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:33 pm
No surrender ever wrote:1. Recognizing that freedom of speech, including hate speech, is fundamental to any democratic society
No surrender ever wrote:3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society
No surrender ever wrote:1. To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant
No surrender ever wrote:3. We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws
by Jebslund » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:34 pm
Tinfect wrote:Hate speech leads directly to violence. Some motherfucker shouting about how transwomen are men and pedophiles and should be forced into mental hospitals leads to transwomen getting denied medical care, abused, raped, and straight up fucking murdered.
by Elyreia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:35 pm
Tinhampton wrote:This proposal will never get off the ground. GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression."
by Separatist Peoples » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:37 pm
Elyreia wrote:Tinhampton wrote:This proposal will never get off the ground. GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression."
I feel the need to quote this for the author of the current resolution.
Also, as stated, Free Speech covers Hate Speech. It just doesn't cover the private consequences (i.e. me clocking you in the jaw a few dozen times with a baseball bat).
by Elyreia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:41 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:-snips-
Separatist Peoples wrote:"That's what the criminal code is for."
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:45 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:46 pm
No surrender ever wrote:Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)
1. Recognizing that freedom of speech is fundamental to any democratic society
2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,
3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society
We resolve
1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment
Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to immediate violence or immediate illegal activity,
We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws, except for those which pertain to direct calls for violence.
by Elyreia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:54 pm
by Masurbia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:55 pm
No surrender ever wrote:Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)
1. Recognizing that freedom of speech is fundamental to any democratic society
2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,
3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society
We resolve
1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment
Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to immediate violence or immediate illegal activity,
We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws, except for those which pertain to direct calls for violence.
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:58 pm
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:59 pm
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Tinfect wrote:
OOC:
First of all, don't even pretend to frame this as a freedom of speech issue. You know as well as I that it's nothing of the sort.
Second, as a member of a group that hate speech is frequently spoken about, some bigoted piece of shit going on a transphobic rant actively threatens my life.
OOC: 1. This is a fictional draft of legislation that will only apply to fictional counties, assuming that it will ever be passed at all.
2. Some bigot going on a rant doesn't automatically threaten your life, and this resolution can be amended to exclude direct threats of violence.
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:59 pm
Morover wrote:No surrender ever wrote:1. Recognizing that freedom of speech, including hate speech, is fundamental to any democratic society
"Not all societies in NationStates are democratic, despite what some nations would like to believe."No surrender ever wrote:3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society
"As I mentioned above, not all nations are democratic. Freedom of speech is not considered an essential human right in many countries. Additionally, clauses one and three are essentially the same thing, simply reworded."No surrender ever wrote:1. To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant
"Even the most hateful and repugnant? What about anti-semites in a predominantly Semitic nation? It seems absurd to say that hate speech is considered a 'hallmark to a democratic society,' as you put it. Furthermore, what exactly constitutes hate speech? Would the organization of a coup be considered hate speech? Is it only hateful language towards that of a minority group? Is it yelling 'fire' in a theatre? A definition of hate speech would be nice for this proposal to see exactly what it is legislating."No surrender ever wrote:3. We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws
"This sounds like you are repealing current World Assembly legislation. I'd reword this."
"Overall, this is a rather poor resolution. Perhaps you could make it passable by creating all sorts of exceptions to the legislation, but it just seems to be more trouble than it is worth. This should be put up to each nation to decide, not legislated by international law."
by Tinhampton » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:01 pm
No surrender ever wrote:We resolve to:
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:05 pm
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:05 pm
Elyreia wrote:Already covered by GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression.".
The legislation that was already passed does not say anything about exempting hate speech from being protected.
As such, your legislation is needlessly redundant. Elyreia stands opposed.
by No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:05 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:No surrender ever wrote:Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)
1. Recognizing that freedom of speech is fundamental to any democratic society
2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,
3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society
We resolve
1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment
Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to immediate violence or immediate illegal activity,
We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws, except for those which pertain to direct calls for violence.
OOC: Again, you should look at GAR#436.
by Jebslund » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:09 pm
No surrender ever wrote:Elyreia wrote:Already covered by GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression.".
The legislation that was already passed does not say anything about exempting hate speech from being protected.
As such, your legislation is needlessly redundant. Elyreia stands opposed.
My resolution goes much further, the already passed resolution mentioned, does not mandate that the state protect speech, only that it does not interfere with it. My resolution would go further, for example, requiring that the police protect a hate groups rally.
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