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DRAFT: Protection of Hate Speech

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No surrender ever
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DRAFT: Protection of Hate Speech

Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:15 pm

1. Not taking for granted totalitarianism in many nations, and aiming to bring end to the oppression of political dissidents, and bringing freedom of expression to nations

2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,

3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

We resolve

1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens immediate and direct illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for direct and immediate harassment

2. (A) Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, at no cost to themselves, (this shall include counter protesters), no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct and immediate call to violence or calling for immediate illegal activity,
(C) The definition of hate speech for this resolution shall be:
‘speech that is mean, unpleasant, offensive, repugnant, obscene, hateful speech and that is directed at a protected characteristic, specifically speech that is: homophobic, sexist, misogynist, racist, ect

(A) We mandate the repeal of all hate speech laws, in all nations, (B) this repeal shall exclude any world assembly legislation
(C) except for laws which pertain to direct immediate calls for direct and immediate unlawful violence, (D) this shall include yelling fire in a crowded theater
Last edited by No surrender ever on Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:17 pm

OOC:
No.
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No surrender ever
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Why?

Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:18 pm

Tinfect wrote:OOC:
No.


Why?

What is so bad about freedom of speech?

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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:22 pm

No surrender ever wrote:
Tinfect wrote:OOC:
No.


Why?

What is so bad about freedom of speech?


OOC:
First of all, don't even pretend to frame this as a freedom of speech issue. You know as well as I that it's nothing of the sort.

Second, as a member of a group that hate speech is frequently spoken about, some bigoted piece of shit going on a transphobic rant actively threatens my life.
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, Male
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, Male
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, Female


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: Preliminary trials of Military Doctrinal Reform prototypes to begin; IRPC 5-115, 5-298, 5-076 public details, Project Lead interviews released | Aeravahn occupation expands to 17% of the Exterior Territories, Internal Security orders full-stop to Civilian expeditions to Exterior | TCO - Vigilant Star declared missing following exit of Iraet orbital region | Indomitable Bastard #283
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No surrender ever
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Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:25 pm

Tinfect wrote:
No surrender ever wrote:
Why?

What is so bad about freedom of speech?


OOC:
First of all, don't even pretend to frame this as a freedom of speech issue. You know as well as I that it's nothing of the sort.

Second, as a member of a group that hate speech is frequently spoken about, some bigoted piece of shit going on a transphobic rant actively threatens my life.


This is a issue about freedom of speech, proof that it is not?

Any suggestions on formatting?

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:28 pm

Tinfect wrote:
No surrender ever wrote:
Why?

What is so bad about freedom of speech?


OOC:
First of all, don't even pretend to frame this as a freedom of speech issue. You know as well as I that it's nothing of the sort.

Second, as a member of a group that hate speech is frequently spoken about, some bigoted piece of shit going on a transphobic rant actively threatens my life.

OOC: 1. This is a fictional draft of legislation that will only apply to fictional counties, assuming that it will ever be passed at all.
2. Some bigot going on a rant doesn't automatically threaten your life, and this resolution can be amended to exclude direct threats of violence.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 pm

No surrender ever wrote:We resolve

1. To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant

This proposal will never get off the ground. GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression."
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:31 pm

No surrender ever wrote:This is a issue about freedom of speech, proof that it is not?


OOC:
It isn't about freedom of speech when its about your freedom of speech to say 'gas the k***s'.

No surrender ever wrote:Any suggestions on formatting?


Delete the entire draft.

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:OOC: 1. This is a fictional piece of legislation that applies to fictional counties.


Annnnd?

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:2. Some bigot going on a rant doesn't automatically threaten your life, and this resolution can be amended to exclude direct threats of violence.


Hate speech leads directly to violence. Some motherfucker shouting about how transwomen are men and pedophiles and should be forced into mental hospitals leads to transwomen getting denied medical care, abused, raped, and straight up fucking murdered.
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, Male
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, Male
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, Female


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: Preliminary trials of Military Doctrinal Reform prototypes to begin; IRPC 5-115, 5-298, 5-076 public details, Project Lead interviews released | Aeravahn occupation expands to 17% of the Exterior Territories, Internal Security orders full-stop to Civilian expeditions to Exterior | TCO - Vigilant Star declared missing following exit of Iraet orbital region | Indomitable Bastard #283
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:33 pm

No surrender ever wrote:1. Recognizing that freedom of speech, including hate speech, is fundamental to any democratic society

"Not all societies in NationStates are democratic, despite what some nations would like to believe."

No surrender ever wrote:3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

"As I mentioned above, not all nations are democratic. Freedom of speech is not considered an essential human right in many countries. Additionally, clauses one and three are essentially the same thing, simply reworded."

No surrender ever wrote:1. To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant

"Even the most hateful and repugnant? What about anti-semites in a predominantly Semitic nation? It seems absurd to say that hate speech is considered a 'hallmark to a democratic society,' as you put it. Furthermore, what exactly constitutes hate speech? Would the organization of a coup be considered hate speech? Is it only hateful language towards that of a minority group? Is it yelling 'fire' in a theatre? A definition of hate speech would be nice for this proposal to see exactly what it is legislating."

No surrender ever wrote:3. We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws

"This sounds like you are repealing current World Assembly legislation. I'd reword this."

"Overall, this is a rather poor resolution. Perhaps you could make it passable by creating all sorts of exceptions to the legislation, but it just seems to be more trouble than it is worth. This should be put up to each nation to decide, not legislated by international law."

If you wish to use any of my previous work - be it World Assembly or otherwise - feel free to use it, but I ask that you credit me as a co-author. If the piece credits a non-CTE'd co-author, I ask that you approach them first.
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Jebslund
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Postby Jebslund » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:34 pm

Tinfect wrote:Hate speech leads directly to violence. Some motherfucker shouting about how transwomen are men and pedophiles and should be forced into mental hospitals leads to transwomen getting denied medical care, abused, raped, and straight up fucking murdered.

[OOC: Tinfect, come on. You're smarter than this, mate. Cool down and take a look at the context of who posted this draft.]
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Elyreia
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Postby Elyreia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:35 pm

Tinhampton wrote:This proposal will never get off the ground. GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression."


I feel the need to quote this for the author of the current resolution.

Also, as stated, Free Speech covers Hate Speech. It just doesn't cover the private consequences (i.e. me clocking them in the jaw a few dozen times with a baseball bat).
Last edited by Elyreia on Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Elyreia wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:This proposal will never get off the ground. GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression."


I feel the need to quote this for the author of the current resolution.

Also, as stated, Free Speech covers Hate Speech. It just doesn't cover the private consequences (i.e. me clocking you in the jaw a few dozen times with a baseball bat).

"That's what the criminal code is for."

OOC: Tinfect, I totally get where you're coming from, but it looks like this is about to teeter into the land of General. Perhaps we can haul it back on track?

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Elyreia
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Postby Elyreia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:41 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:-snips-


OOC: Completely the reason I edited to use "them" in my post because I was using a general "you" not a specific "you the author", and didn't want to drag this conversation into personal attacks.


Separatist Peoples wrote:"That's what the criminal code is for."



And that's entirely on me and accepting my consequences for doing that act. So long as everyone is willing to accept the possible consequences of their actions, free speech covers hate speech just fine.
Last edited by Elyreia on Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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No surrender ever
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EDIT 1#: Protection of Hate Speech

Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:45 pm

Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)

1. Recognizing that freedom of speech is fundamental to any democratic society

2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,

3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

We resolve

1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment

Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to immediate violence or immediate illegal activity,

We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws, except for those which pertain to direct calls for violence.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:46 pm

No surrender ever wrote:Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)

1. Recognizing that freedom of speech is fundamental to any democratic society

2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,

3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

We resolve

1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment

Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to immediate violence or immediate illegal activity,

We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws, except for those which pertain to direct calls for violence.

OOC: Again, you should look at GAR#436.

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Elyreia
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Postby Elyreia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:54 pm

Already covered by GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression.".

The legislation that was already passed does not say anything about exempting hate speech from being protected.

As such, your legislation is needlessly redundant. Elyreia stands opposed.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:55 pm

No surrender ever wrote:Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)

1. Recognizing that freedom of speech is fundamental to any democratic society

2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,

3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

We resolve

1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment

Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to immediate violence or immediate illegal activity,

We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws, except for those which pertain to direct calls for violence.

Edit your most recent draft into the Original post. The first thing people should see when they go onto this thread is your most current draft.
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No surrender ever
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Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)

Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:58 pm

Please check out the new edit (Edit #2):

1. Not taking for granted totalitarianism in many nations, and aiming to bring end to the oppression of political dissidents, and bringing freedom of expression to nations

2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,

3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

We resolve to:

1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment

2. Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to violence or illegal activity,
(C) The definition of hate speech for this resolution shall be:
‘speech that is mean, unpleasant, offensive, repugnant, obscene, hateful speech and that is directed at a protected characteristic, specifically speech that is: homophobic, sexist, misogynist, racist, ect

(A) We mandate the repeal of all hate speech laws, in all nations, this repeal shall exclude any world assembly legislation
(B) except for laws which pertain to direct calls for violence, (C) this shall include yelling fire in a crowded theater

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No surrender ever
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Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:59 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Tinfect wrote:
OOC:
First of all, don't even pretend to frame this as a freedom of speech issue. You know as well as I that it's nothing of the sort.

Second, as a member of a group that hate speech is frequently spoken about, some bigoted piece of shit going on a transphobic rant actively threatens my life.

OOC: 1. This is a fictional draft of legislation that will only apply to fictional counties, assuming that it will ever be passed at all.
2. Some bigot going on a rant doesn't automatically threaten your life, and this resolution can be amended to exclude direct threats of violence.


Amended as requested.

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No surrender ever
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Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:59 pm

Morover wrote:
No surrender ever wrote:1. Recognizing that freedom of speech, including hate speech, is fundamental to any democratic society

"Not all societies in NationStates are democratic, despite what some nations would like to believe."

No surrender ever wrote:3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

"As I mentioned above, not all nations are democratic. Freedom of speech is not considered an essential human right in many countries. Additionally, clauses one and three are essentially the same thing, simply reworded."

No surrender ever wrote:1. To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant

"Even the most hateful and repugnant? What about anti-semites in a predominantly Semitic nation? It seems absurd to say that hate speech is considered a 'hallmark to a democratic society,' as you put it. Furthermore, what exactly constitutes hate speech? Would the organization of a coup be considered hate speech? Is it only hateful language towards that of a minority group? Is it yelling 'fire' in a theatre? A definition of hate speech would be nice for this proposal to see exactly what it is legislating."

No surrender ever wrote:3. We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws

"This sounds like you are repealing current World Assembly legislation. I'd reword this."

"Overall, this is a rather poor resolution. Perhaps you could make it passable by creating all sorts of exceptions to the legislation, but it just seems to be more trouble than it is worth. This should be put up to each nation to decide, not legislated by international law."


Amended as requested mostly.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:01 pm

No surrender ever wrote:We resolve to:

I suspect you might still be running into a brick wall with GA#436 here. I'd be surprised if this proposal can still be salvaged.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
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No surrender ever
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Me Responding!

Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:05 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
No surrender ever wrote:We resolve to:

I suspect you might still be running into a brick wall with GA#436 here. I'd be surprised if this proposal can still be salvaged.


My resolution goes much further, the already passed resolution mentioned, does not mandate that the state protect speech, only that it does not interfere with it. My resolution would go further, for example, requiring that the police protect a hate groups rally.

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No surrender ever
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Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:05 pm

Elyreia wrote:Already covered by GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression.".

The legislation that was already passed does not say anything about exempting hate speech from being protected.

As such, your legislation is needlessly redundant. Elyreia stands opposed.



My resolution goes much further, the already passed resolution mentioned, does not mandate that the state protect speech, only that it does not interfere with it. My resolution would go further, for example, requiring that the police protect a hate groups rally.

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No surrender ever
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Postby No surrender ever » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:05 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
No surrender ever wrote:Please check out the new edit (Edit #1)

1. Recognizing that freedom of speech is fundamental to any democratic society

2. Realizing that some speech may be hateful, offensive, or otherwise just distasteful or obscene,

3. Recognizing that the protection of the most provocative and hateful speech is a hallmark to a democratic society

We resolve

1. (A) To mandate that all nations protect all forms of speech, even the most hateful and repugnant,
(B) but excluding speech that directly calls for immediate violence, or that threatens illegal violence, this will be constructed to include an exemption for harassment

Ordering, that groups that may be considered hateful be afforded the full protection of the law, including the right to express their opinions, and be protected while doing so, no matter how hateful,
(B) but once again, excluding speech that is a direct call to immediate violence or immediate illegal activity,

We mandate The repeal of all hate speech laws, except for those which pertain to direct calls for violence.

OOC: Again, you should look at GAR#436.



My resolution goes much further, the already passed resolution mentioned, does not mandate that the state protect speech, only that it does not interfere with it. My resolution would go further, for example, requiring that the police protect a hate groups rally.

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Jebslund
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Jebslund » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:09 pm

No surrender ever wrote:
Elyreia wrote:Already covered by GA#436 "Protecting Free Expression.".

The legislation that was already passed does not say anything about exempting hate speech from being protected.

As such, your legislation is needlessly redundant. Elyreia stands opposed.



My resolution goes much further, the already passed resolution mentioned, does not mandate that the state protect speech, only that it does not interfere with it. My resolution would go further, for example, requiring that the police protect a hate groups rally.


[OOC:
1: You don't need to make three posts to make the same comment word-for-word.
2: You need a minimum of two endorsements to submit a resolution.
3: Equal protection under the law is already enshrined in the WA.]
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

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