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[DRAFT] Reproductive Freedoms II: Abortion Boogaloo

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Wallenburg
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[DRAFT] Reproductive Freedoms II: Abortion Boogaloo

Postby Wallenburg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:54 pm

On the off-chance that pigs grow wings and a repeal of RF passes:
Reproductive Freedoms
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Category: Civil Rights || Strength: Significant || Proposed by: Wallenburg

Recognizing the bodily sovereignty of all individuals,

Believing that the reproductive choices of individuals belong to each individual alone,

Rejecting the oppressive goals of several member states set against individuals' right to terminate a pregnancy,

The World Assembly hereby:

  1. Defines "termination of pregnancy" as any medical procedure or medicine with the purpose of ending a pregnancy, not including childbirth,

  2. Guarantees all individuals within the jurisdiction of member states the right to seek and obtain a termination of pregnancy,

  3. Prohibits member states from proscribing health professionals from providing a termination of pregnancy, and requires member states to allow such professionals to work for or operate services providing a termination of pregnancy, within the confines of active World Assembly legislation,

  4. Limits regulation of such services to protection of the health and safety of the individuals seeking termination of pregnancy and those providing the service, and prohibits regulations on the facilities providing these services that do not promote the health and safety of those in the facility, or that do not serve to enforce laws unrelated to termination of pregnancy,

  5. Requires member states to protect those who seek a termination of pregnancy and those who provide such services from harassment and violence, and to thoroughly investigate attacks on facilities providing termination of pregnancies in order to identify and prosecute the attackers.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD

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Kenmoria
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:07 pm

“This looks very good, and has my full support, though I can’t see a need for it given he impossibility of repealing #286.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Polish Prussian Commonwealth
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Founded: Oct 30, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Polish Prussian Commonwealth » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:11 pm

Prussia-Poland will hereby take great delight in joining the WA simply so we may flout this bill.
All those attempting to facilitate abortion, whether by leaving the country, or performing them, will be summarily executed without trial.
Last edited by Polish Prussian Commonwealth on Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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News: Tensions with Austrian Empire over attempted annexation of Lower Bavaria | Reichswehr mobilized, 32nd, 12th, and 14th Infantry Divisions sighted moving for Bavaria | Pope Francis advises caution, offers to mediate
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At this point I've accepted that Europe's going to hell and I'm only hoping that we get as much border gore as possible out of it.
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:12 pm

"So induced birth in the abortive sense - well before the fetus is viable to survive outside the womb - does not count as abortion?"
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Kenmoria
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:13 pm

Polish Prussian Commonwealth wrote:Prussia-Poland will hereby take great delight in joining the WA simply so we may flout this bill.
All those attempting to facilitate abortion, whether by leaving the country, or performing them, will be summarily executed without trial.

(OOC: Don’t do that. It is considered poor roleplaying to simply ignore GA resolutions without considering the effects of the resultant fines.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Polish Prussian Commonwealth
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Founded: Oct 30, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Polish Prussian Commonwealth » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:15 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Polish Prussian Commonwealth wrote:Prussia-Poland will hereby take great delight in joining the WA simply so we may flout this bill.
All those attempting to facilitate abortion, whether by leaving the country, or performing them, will be summarily executed without trial.

(OOC: Don’t do that. It is considered poor roleplaying to simply ignore GA resolutions without considering the effects of the resultant fines.)

(OOC: You really think I didn't consider that? Any country would get condemned and sanctioned to hell and back for doing what I did IRL.)
A katana is a glorified piece of sharpened pig iron with a handle. Grab a dao if you're feeling Oriental.
News: Tensions with Austrian Empire over attempted annexation of Lower Bavaria | Reichswehr mobilized, 32nd, 12th, and 14th Infantry Divisions sighted moving for Bavaria | Pope Francis advises caution, offers to mediate
IRL me in a nutshell
At this point I've accepted that Europe's going to hell and I'm only hoping that we get as much border gore as possible out of it.
Poland did nothing wrong.
Japan was a mistake.

NS Stats have been shot and thrown into a ditch.

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Wallenburg
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Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:18 pm

Araraukar wrote:"So induced birth in the abortive sense - well before the fetus is viable to survive outside the womb - does not count as abortion?"

"I'm not sure how to deal with that. The explicit removal of labor and delivery from the definition is intended to prevent dishonest member states from pretending that live childbirth upon reaching full term counts as an abortion."
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD

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Reichsstaaten von Germania
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Postby Reichsstaaten von Germania » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:21 pm

“Abortion is a sin and a waste of potentional...we Germans have no need for abortions as we have extensive child care and adoptions agencies and personally take the murder of a small child as a travesty”

-Kaiser Konrad I von Volkheim
I do not use NS stats

——Reichstaaten von Germania——
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Polish Prussian Commonwealth
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Polish Prussian Commonwealth » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:30 pm

Reichsstaaten von Germania wrote:“Abortion is a sin and a waste of potentional...we Germans have no need for abortions as we have extensive child care and adoptions agencies and personally take the murder of a small child as a travesty”

-Kaiser Konrad I von Volkheim

"Shush! Don't speak too loud, lest you get mugged by one of those pro-choice types!"
-Kaiser Crassus von Hohenzollern-Jagiellon
A katana is a glorified piece of sharpened pig iron with a handle. Grab a dao if you're feeling Oriental.
News: Tensions with Austrian Empire over attempted annexation of Lower Bavaria | Reichswehr mobilized, 32nd, 12th, and 14th Infantry Divisions sighted moving for Bavaria | Pope Francis advises caution, offers to mediate
IRL me in a nutshell
At this point I've accepted that Europe's going to hell and I'm only hoping that we get as much border gore as possible out of it.
Poland did nothing wrong.
Japan was a mistake.

NS Stats have been shot and thrown into a ditch.

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The New Nordic Union
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Posts: 103
Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New Nordic Union » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:38 pm

Reichsstaaten von Germania wrote:“Abortion is a sin and a waste of potentional...we Germans have no need for abortions as we have extensive child care and adoptions agencies and personally take the murder of a small child as a travesty”

-Kaiser Konrad I von Volkheim
Polish Prussian Commonwealth wrote:Prussia-Poland will hereby take great delight in joining the WA simply so we may flout this bill.
All those attempting to facilitate abortion, whether by leaving the country, or performing them, will be summarily executed without trial.


'You are aware of the fact that this proposal is just a replacement for the highly unlikely case that GAR#286, Reproductive Freedoms, is actually repealed, are you not? And since GAR#286 is still in force (and, for that matter, #128), there is no need for talk like this in the chambers right now.'

– Katrin við Keldu, Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly
Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly: Katrin við Keldu

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:11 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
Araraukar wrote:"So induced birth in the abortive sense - well before the fetus is viable to survive outside the womb - does not count as abortion?"

"I'm not sure how to deal with that. The explicit removal of labor and delivery from the definition is intended to prevent dishonest member states from pretending that live childbirth upon reaching full term counts as an abortion."

"Perhaps wording it as "excluding childbirth, induced or not, when not used for the express purpose of terminating the pregnancy". That way induced childbirth that is sometimes necessary to give birth safely wouldn't count as abortion, nor would uninduced childbirth that is the end result of the normal progress of a pregnancy. I mean, when the purpose of childbirth is to give birth to a child, it's childbirth, not abortion, but when birthing an intact fetus is used to specifically terminate the pregnancy, it should count as abortion, regardless of the method."
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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The New Nordic Union
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Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New Nordic Union » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:25 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:"I'm not sure how to deal with that. The explicit removal of labor and delivery from the definition is intended to prevent dishonest member states from pretending that live childbirth upon reaching full term counts as an abortion."

"Perhaps wording it as "excluding childbirth, induced or not, when not used for the express purpose of terminating the pregnancy". That way induced childbirth that is sometimes necessary to give birth safely wouldn't count as abortion, nor would uninduced childbirth that is the end result of the normal progress of a pregnancy. I mean, when the purpose of childbirth is to give birth to a child, it's childbirth, not abortion, but when birthing an intact fetus is used to specifically terminate the pregnancy, it should count as abortion, regardless of the method."


'But is induced childbirth not conducted with express intent to terminate the pregnancy? After all, the pregnancy ends, hence, terminates, with or just after (induced) childbirth.

Also, would the definition proposed not be circular, as it is trying to define "termination of pregnancy" by using the terms "terminating the pregnancy"?'

– Katrin við Keldu, Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly
Last edited by The New Nordic Union on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly: Katrin við Keldu

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:28 am

The New Nordic Union wrote:'But is induced childbirth not conducted with express intent to terminate the pregnancy? After all, the pregnancy ends, hence, terminates, with or just after (induced) childbirth.

"No. Childbirth for the purposes of extracting a living child at the end of a pregnancy is very much different from induced childbirth for the purposes of causing the death of the fetus - or the removal of a fetus that is already dead - aka an abortion. Hence the need for an added definition."
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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The New Nordic Union
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Founded: Jul 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New Nordic Union » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:33 am

Araraukar wrote:
The New Nordic Union wrote:'But is induced childbirth not conducted with express intent to terminate the pregnancy? After all, the pregnancy ends, hence, terminates, with or just after (induced) childbirth.

"No. Childbirth for the purposes of extracting a living child at the end of a pregnancy is very much different from induced childbirth for the purposes of causing the death of the fetus - or the removal of a fetus that is already dead - aka an abortion. Hence the need for an added definition."


'We are aware of the differences, we just are not sure if those differences really lie in the definition of the term 'terminating', since the pregnancy ends either way.'
Last edited by The New Nordic Union on Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Permanent Representative of the Nordic Union to the World Assembly: Katrin við Keldu

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:35 am

The New Nordic Union wrote:'We are aware of the differences, we just are not sure if those differences really lie in the definition of the term 'terminating', since the pregnancy ends either way.'

"Traditionally "terminating" refers to abortion, not normal end of pregnancy."
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Kranostav
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Founded: Apr 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kranostav » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:43 am

Why are we poking the abortion bear? I thought this topic was fairly dead, yet you seem to draft a possible replacement for shits and giggles?
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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:02 am

Polish Prussian Commonwealth wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Don’t do that. It is considered poor roleplaying to simply ignore GA resolutions without considering the effects of the resultant fines.)

(OOC: You really think I didn't consider that? Any country would get condemned and sanctioned to hell and back for doing what I did IRL.)

(OOC: Okay, as long as the effects are actually considered. Too many players just completely ignore GA resolutions for the sake of being irritating.)
Reichsstaaten von Germania wrote:“Abortion is a sin and a waste of potentional...we Germans have no need for abortions as we have extensive child care and adoptions agencies and personally take the murder of a small child as a travesty”

-Kaiser Konrad I von Volkheim
“I think you need to have a look at GA #286, which bans the prohibition of abortion, ambassador.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Wallenburg
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Posts: 19490
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:44 am

Kranostav wrote:Why are we poking the abortion bear? I thought this topic was fairly dead, yet you seem to draft a possible replacement for shits and giggles?

Because it's Tuesday.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:37 pm

I only really want Sierra Lyricalia's replacement.

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Fecaw
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Fecaw » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:07 pm

"For clause 4, why is only the health and safety of "the individuals seeking termination of pregnancy and those providing the service" regulated? We are completely against this anyway due to clause 2 and 3, which I assume are critical to the resolution."
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:05 pm

Fecaw wrote:"For clause 4, why is only the health and safety of "the individuals seeking termination of pregnancy and those providing the service" regulated?"

"Because that's the only thing that matters?"
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Wallenburg
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Wallenburg » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:17 pm

Fecaw wrote:"For clause 4, why is only the health and safety of "the individuals seeking termination of pregnancy and those providing the service" regulated? We are completely against this anyway due to clause 2 and 3, which I assume are critical to the resolution."

That's not quite what's going on. This would apply no regulations on abortion services or facilities whatsoever. It would only allow the few regulations that I have made allowances for.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
PRO: GOOD || ANTI: BAD

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Calamari
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Founded: May 17, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Calamari » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:00 pm

No mention of restrictions on the terminations here.

Would this allow people to terminate a pregnancy by abortion mere hours before the due date? If so, severely against.

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Araraukar
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Posts: 12292
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:48 pm

Calamari wrote:Would this allow people to terminate a pregnancy by abortion mere hours before the due date? If so, severely against.

OOC: ...what's this magical device of yours that can predict the time of birth with the accuracy of a few hours?
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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Separatist Peoples
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:01 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Calamari wrote:Would this allow people to terminate a pregnancy by abortion mere hours before the due date? If so, severely against.

OOC: ...what's this magical device of yours that can predict the time of birth with the accuracy of a few hours?

Ooc: The wonder of modern chemistry, PFM.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

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