[DEAFETED] Repeal of "Reproductive Freedoms" Act

[Lamoni]

Falcania is only trying to justify a progresdive political law enforced to all world assembly to bully the conservative, the fadcist, the theocracies and other right nations
Such a bully

I'm typing the following out of character, as a player: fuck conservatives, fuck fascists, fuck the right wing. The General Assembly's motto is "improving the world one resolution at a time". That sounds like progressivism to me. If you don't like that, then leave.

The question of if the WA is left wing or right wing is not germane to the topic of the thread. Let's get this thread back on topic. iLoom.

[Hatzisland]

OOC: No! This is human rights we are talking about! If everyone has the right to "do what they want with their body", then why don't we legalize murder! At that point, we should legalize all crimes! So no, it is not just "their call". If everything was "their call", we would live in anarchy.

"Murder is the killing of another. The right to bodily sovereignty does not equate to murder. Liberal individual rights is beneficial insofar as it produces beneficial ends. Here, permitting abortion generates beneficial outcomes: Reduced unwanted pregnancies, reduced welfare costs, and the morally correct equivalency of bodily sovereignty between men and women. What possibly is the drawback to permitting abortion?"

OOC: The murder of living beings, that's what!

IC: We don't believe "I don't want to have a baby" is a valid reason to have an abortion. For medical purposes, yes, but "I don't want to be a mother!" is not an excuse. And as for welfare, isn't the point of welfare to save lives? If the goal was to reduce welfare costs, then why don't we just leave the welfare recipients out to die? Because you're effectively doing the same thing to the baby.

[Hatzisland]

OOC: No! This is human rights we are talking about! If everyone has the right to "do what they want with their body", then why don't we legalize murder!

Sep didn't say that everyone has the right to do what they want with other people's bodies.

That baby is a living being, and has its own body. What about it?

[Separatist Peoples]

"Murder is the killing of another. The right to bodily sovereignty does not equate to murder. Liberal individual rights is beneficial insofar as it produces beneficial ends. Here, permitting abortion generates beneficial outcomes: Reduced unwanted pregnancies, reduced welfare costs, and the morally correct equivalency of bodily sovereignty between men and women. What possibly is the drawback to permitting abortion?"

OOC: The murder of living beings, that's what!

IC: We don't believe "I don't want to have a baby" is a valid reason to have an abortion. For medical purposes, yes, but "I don't want to be a mother!" is not an excuse. And as for welfare, isn't the point of welfare to save lives? If the goal was to reduce welfare costs, then why don't we just leave the welfare recipients out to die? Because you're effectively doing the same thing to the baby.

"The point of welfare is to improve the standard of living. Not to save lives proactively. Fetuses are not persons, and therefore their destruction is not murder. If you disagree with abortions, don't get one."

OOC: I could not give a bent nickel about destroying a clump of cells that is not a person. I do the same thing every time I trim my nails.

[The New Bluestocking Homeland]

Sep didn't say that everyone has the right to do what they want with other people's bodies.

That baby is a living being, and has its own body. What about it?

"Even if the foetus was a legal individual -- something which is disputed at best -- no-one's body has the right to harm or inconvenience the body of another.

If someone decided they were going to move into your home without your permission, put their muddy boots on your furniture, ate all your food and refused to leave -- even if they weren't physically threatening you -- you could throw them out.

A woman choosing to abort a foetus she didn't choose to conceive and can't support is no different."

[Maowi]

That baby is a living being, and has its own body. What about it?

Foetuses do not feel pain until the third trimester, by which point a mother who wanted to abort the pregnancy would already have done so unless unprecedented medical issues arose, in which case I feel it would be fair to prioritise the mother's significantly more developed and aware body than the foetus'.

[Falcania]

We don't believe "I don't want to have a baby" is a valid reason to have an abortion.

This is the salient point, really, and you haven't really explained why very clearly.

[Elyreia]

I'm typing the following out of character, as a player: fuck conservatives

OOC: I'm a moderate conservative myself (read: NOT a traditionalist as I view most right-wing parties), so I do hope if the time ever comes we stand in opposition, you'll still be receptive to debate on the topic at hand. An echo chamber for either side of the spectrum is a bad thing.

IC: We fail to see any purpose to repeal that is not biased toward traditionalist viewpoints. There is no moral argument to be made on abortions that will not infringe upon religious or cultural beliefs. At this time, Elyreia is opposed to the repeal of the target legislation as we believe it allows plenty of flexibility for more... hard-right societies.

[The New Nordic Union]

OOC:
So, apparently, this has been submitted.

[Hatzisland]

OOC:
So, apparently, this has been submitted.

OOC: Yes, it has. And we hope it will pass.

[Tinfect]

OOC:
So, apparently, this has been submitted.

OOC: Yes, it has. And we hope it will pass.

OOC:
Not bloody likely.

[Kenmoria]

OOC:
So, apparently, this has been submitted.

OOC: Yes, it has. And we hope it will pass.

(OOC: It won’t; a repeal of ‘Reproductive Freedoms’ is extremely unlikely to ever pass, and, if one ever did, it would require months of drafting, listening to all of the criticism on the forums and lots of past experience passing repeals.)

[The Unfounded]

OOC:
So, apparently, this has been submitted.

OOC: Yes, it has. And we hope it will pass.

OOC: My prediction is it will not get sufficient endorsements to get to vote.

[Nordengrund]

I think your proposal could use more work, and then i would support it, mainly becuase I want each member nation to decide their own policies on abortion.

[Atheris]

nah

yeah i'm joining the wa soon so i can actually talk about posts like this, so that's cool

[Vygarm]

This proposal is brief and the information and acknowledgments written therein are entirely subjective and are not founded on any credible scientific studies or data.

While I am happy to debate the subject of reproductive rights on behalf of my nation, I personally find the very concept of this repeal proposal to be incongruous with Vygarmic beliefs simply due to the almost hyperbole and certainly morally presumptuous nature to its entirety.

Vygarm cannot support this bill.

[Dunmoyle]

There's currently a resolution deemed legal by GenSec that's awaiting a quorum of WA delegates, and I wanted to open up a thread to discuss it.

The current resolution would repeal "Reproductive Freedoms", which legalized abortion throughout the world, and actually required member states to protect the right to abortion within their borders. Personally, I oppose abortion for all of the reasons given in the repeal, which is why I implore my WA delegate and other delegates to support it so it can go to a floor vote.

It currently only has 11 hours before voting ends and it either dies or goes to a vote, and it still needs 63 delegates to sign on, so I want to bring attention to it to see if it can achieve a quorum, but I also want to see what my fellow nations think about this resolution.

[United Massachusetts]

I support any resolution to repeal so-called "Reproductive Freedoms," and will gladly train any pro-life author in the basics of resolution writing. If you would like to learn how to write a strong resolution and fully learn the ropes around here, please send me a telegram.

[Separatist Peoples]

There's currently a resolution deemed legal by GenSec that's awaiting a quorum of WA delegates, and I wanted to open up a thread to discuss it.

The current resolution would repeal "Reproductive Freedoms", which legalized abortion throughout the world, and actually required member states to protect the right to abortion within their borders. Personally, I oppose abortion for all of the reasons given in the repeal, which is why I implore my WA delegate and other delegates to support it so it can go to a floor vote.

It currently only has 11 hours before voting ends and it either dies or goes to a vote, and it still needs 63 delegates to sign on, so I want to bring attention to it to see if it can achieve a quorum, but I also want to see what my fellow nations think about this resolution.

"Any repeal of Reproductive Freedoms is terrible."

[Maowi]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=459596#p35302882

There is already a thread for this proposal, if all you want to do is debate it.

[United Massachusetts]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=459596#p35302882

There is already a thread for this proposal, if all you want to do is debate it.

It's perfectly fine for different drafts to exist on different proposals, I should note.

[Wrapper]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=459596#p35302882

There is already a thread for this proposal, if all you want to do is debate it.

It's perfectly fine for different drafts to exist on different proposals, I should note.

It’s the same proposal. Threads merged.

[Hatzisland]

It's perfectly fine for different drafts to exist on different proposals, I should note.

It’s the same proposal. Threads merged.

Will this be logged in debates?

[Dirty Americans]

OOC: I could not give a bent nickel about destroying a clump of cells that is not a person. I do the same thing every time I trim my nails.

OOC: Well, if you say so, but for most people the portion of the nail you "trim" is the "laminated layers of the protein, keratin." If you are trimming your nails to the point where you are trimming the cuticle you are hurting your fingers.

OOC: I don't want to know how you treat pets with the attitude that anything that isn't a "person" can be destroyed without a care.

"Any repeal of Reproductive Freedoms is terrible."

"That's not true. Just because we can't think of any that aren't mean terrible doesn't mean that all are terrible. That is a generalization fallacy. Perhaps we should hold a contest; invite the best writers of the multiverse to compose one. Still wouldn't pass, but at least it wouldn't be terrible."

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: I could not give a bent nickel about destroying a clump of cells that is not a person. I do the same thing every time I trim my nails.

OOC: Well, if you say so, but for most people the portion of the nail you "trim" is the "laminated layers of the protein, keratin." If you are trimming your nails to the point where you are trimming the cuticle you are hurting your fingers.

OOC: I don't want to know how you treat pets with the attitude that anything that isn't a "person" can be destroyed without a care.

OOC: I like animals. I want them around.

"Any repeal of Reproductive Freedoms is terrible."

"That's not true. Just because we can't think of any that aren't mean terrible doesn't mean that all are terrible. That is a generalization fallacy. Perhaps we should hold a contest; invite the best writers of the multiverse to compose one. Still wouldn't pass, but at least it wouldn't be terrible."

"I wrote one already that is pretty good, and it's still terrible."