[Closed] Repeal GAR #235, "Child Firearm Safety Act"

[Arasi Luvasa]

“‘If all firearms were used’ was a phrase you used, and it probably isn’t correct, as I doubt every single resident in the CDSP has used a gun in their lifetime.

"Statistically, nearly every citizen has fired a firearm. Its part of the primary school curriculum. If you go to a school that follows the national curriculum, you have fired a rifle at least once."

The gun was invented to kill or seriously injure people from a distance, just as a sword was invented to kill or seriously injure people at close range.

"You are imputing an intent where there is none, and indeed cannot be one."

"So then tell me, why were guns invented? I am fairly certain they were invented as tools of war like various swords were designed as tools of combat. Only a fool would say that the sword was invented for some other purpose, every aspect of it's design is geared towards wounding enemies. Swords come in different forms because there was technology invented to guard against what was commonly used, hence a rapier to pierce flesh within tiny openings."

The fact that some people may enjoy firing at targets with guns or may enjoy fencing with swords does nothing to change the fact that guns and swords are weapons and their primary purpose is harm.

"This remains demonstrably false, since most firearms are never so used. Unless you suggest that millions of firearms users are using their weapons incorrectly?"[/quote]
"Try not to be so dense, they are using correctly but that does not mean that they are using it for it's intended purpose. There is a diffrence. Also the use of guns to shoot paper targets or other forms of decoy targets somewhat makes their purpose as weapons more clear. That and that this behaviour of shooting inanimate items is commonly referred to as practice, at least as far as I have encountered it".

Regardless of who is correct

"Its me."

"It clearly is not."

This is a process that I do not think anyone has an issue with

"Any sane government would have an issue with unnecessary meddling.",

"The same could be said of resolutions you champion, perhaps we should just do away with any resolution that a nation could reasonably implement itself? I think that includes many resolutions you would rather see remain."

[Separatist Peoples]

"So then tell me, why were guns invented? I am fairly certain they were invented as tools of war like various swords were designed as tools of combat.

Bell shrugs, "Modern rocket engines were developed as a weapons delivery system, but are clearly not intended as weapons of war. So, too, were jet engines. As was GPS. I suppose you'll tell my my car GPS is intended as a weapon system because it was created for the purpose of protracting war?"

Only a fool would say that the sword was invented for some other purpose, every aspect of it's design is geared towards wounding enemies. Swords come in different forms because there was technology invented to guard against what was commonly used, hence a rapier to pierce flesh within tiny openings."

"And the world's collection of swords today are primarily ceremonial. Its features are irrelevant, because it is used for something entirely divorced from a prior intent at it's inception."

"Try not to be so dense, they are using correctly but that does not mean that they are using it for it's intended purpose. There is a diffrence. Also the use of guns to shoot paper targets or other forms of decoy targets somewhat makes their purpose as weapons more clear. That and that this behaviour of shooting inanimate items is commonly referred to as practice, at least as far as I have encountered it".

"If firearm owners are not using the firearm improperly when they fire on paper targets and clay dics, then the purpose clearly is not to killing and maim, since proper use does not result in killing and maiming."

"The same could be said of resolutions you champion, perhaps we should just do away with any resolution that a nation could reasonably implement itself? I think that includes many resolutions you would rather see remain."

"I've made a long career out of opposing resolutions with no transnational or inherently humanitarian aspect. Bet you're wrong."

[Arasi Luvasa]

"If firearm owners are not using the firearm improperly when they fire on paper targets and clay dics, then the purpose clearly is not to killing and maim, since proper use does not result in killing and maiming."

"Using an item properly is in reference to the manner and form with which it is used, for example, someone could use a bat to play baseball but be using it incorrectly because they are holding it from the head instead of the grip. They are using as intended but not correctly. Someone using an executioners sword to cut and see a cake may very well be using the tool correctly (perfect stance, holding the grip properly, swinging properly) but are not using the tool as intended, which is the beheading of nobles. That is also why I brought up what using a gun in another setting is called, target practice. It is considered practice, using the tool for the purpose of improving ones aim with the tool."

"Perhaps then I should also use another example of a weapon that is often used for a purpose other than it's intent, that being the bow. Today bows are often used in sports, the only time using a gun may not be called target practice, however, this doesn't change that sports are in essence a form of combat. Sports generally exist as a method of depicting one's own combat prowess, the original sports being gladiator battles which did involve actual killing. Bows are designed to launch projectiles out, with the intent of piercing something. It was designed with the intent of making better tools for the killing and maiming of animals so that primitive humans could collect food."

"And the world's collection of swords today are primarily ceremonial. Its features are irrelevant, because it is used for something entirely divorced from a prior intent at it's inception."

"Ceremonial swords are rarely used, if ever. They are often blunt replicas of actual weapons, one would not say that a gun which was not built with the ability to shoot deadly projectiles was anything more than a replica."

Bell shrugs, "Modern rocket engines were developed as a weapons delivery system, but are clearly not intended as weapons of war. So, too, were jet engines. As was GPS. I suppose you'll tell my my car GPS is intended as a weapon system because it was created for the purpose of protracting war?"

"What were you saying about bad analogies? Modern rockets have had their design adapted to another purpose, or been installed as a part of something which was built with a different intent. Same applies for whatever engine you will be bringing up, along with the GPS and nuclear power plants. The difference exists in that these tools have been adapted to be better suited for another purpose, no such redesign has occurred for guns. Also funny how you could not name any actual weapons and only components used to build a weapon, or otherwise as part of a weapon. Guns and swords are on the other hand a weapon, not a component of a weapon."

[Wallenburg]

Someone using an executioners sword to cut and see a cake may very well be using the tool correctly (perfect stance, holding the grip properly, swinging properly) but are not using the tool as intended, which is the beheading of nobles.

Mikael, walking by on his way to the voting chamber, leans into the debate room and applauds Ambassador Mirase.

[Separatist Peoples]

"What were you saying about bad analogies? Modern rockets have had their design adapted to another purpose, or been installed as a part of something which was built with a different intent. Same applies for whatever engine you will be bringing up, along with the GPS and nuclear power plants. The difference exists in that these tools have been adapted to be better suited for another purpose, no such redesign has occurred for guns. Also funny how you could not name any actual weapons and only components used to build a weapon, or otherwise as part of a weapon. Guns and swords are on the other hand a weapon, not a component of a weapon."

"Modern rocket engines have not been changed significantly from their military versions. Nor either has GPS. They have been used, wholecloth, to adapt to new circumstances despite a military intention."

"I see you struggle with syllogisms, ambassador. I also see that you are unfamiliar with firearm design. Many, if not all, firearms designed from military tools are modified in design to keep the parts incompatible with their military counterparts. Further, most firearms manufactured for civilian use are either designed from scratch to be civilian firearms or are significantly modified from military counterparts. That makes the syllogism applicable.

"None of this is here nor there. Regulating domestic firearm use, despite your clear bias against firearms, is an unnecessary meddling in domestic affairs. What does Arasi Luvasa care if C.D.S.P. citizens are legally permitted to carry assault rifles in their day to day life? What does the C.D.S.P. care if Arasi Luvasa disarms its citizens to keep them docile? It is a domestic concern, best dealt with on a domestic level."

[Bananaistan]

"If the right of the people to free speech is hugely important (or the right to all sorts of other things that the WA has so far established) then the right of people not to be shot by gobshites with firearms is just as valid. The simple fact is that the more guns there are, the more shootings there are.

"Opposed."

[Deutschess Kaiserreich]

[DELETED]

[Separatist Peoples]

"If the right of the people to free speech is hugely important (or the right to all sorts of other things that the WA has so far established) then the right of people not to be shot by gobshites with firearms is just as valid. The simple fact is that the more guns there are, the more shootings there are.

"Opposed."

"Clearly not, ambassador. The C.D.S.P. has recently broadened its lax gun laws, and unjustified shootings have never been lower. Unless we're mandating some bizarre WA murder ban, the substantive issues of domestic criminal justice, or the lack thereof, seems patently absurd."

[Imperium Anglorum]

Clearly not, ambassador. The C.D.S.P. has recently broadened its lax gun laws, and unjustified shootings have never been lower.

Elsie Mortimer Wellesley: (muttering) Next, some deluded nut-job is going to walk in and say "We banned markets, the economy boomed" followed by "We banned conversations, social interactions increased three-fold."

[Aclion]

Clearly not, ambassador. The C.D.S.P. has recently broadened its lax gun laws, and unjustified shootings have never been lower.

Elsie Mortimer Wellesley: (muttering) Next, some deluded nut-job is going to walk in and say "We banned markets, the economy boomed" followed by "We banned conversations, social interactions increased three-fold."

I'm afraid disdain is not a substitute for evidence.

[Separatist Peoples]

Clearly not, ambassador. The C.D.S.P. has recently broadened its lax gun laws, and unjustified shootings have never been lower.

Elsie Mortimer Wellesley: (muttering) Next, some deluded nut-job is going to walk in and say "We banned markets, the economy boomed" followed by "We banned conversations, social interactions increased three-fold."

"Oh, the two are certainly unrelated. More guns doesn't cause less crime, but nor either does it cause more."

[Elyreia]

Every nation's cultures, society, and legalities cause a number of differences in crime rates. For instance, all Elyreians are armed after taking the Oath of Citizenship, and keep their issued firearms or sidearms (depending on their duty) with a single magazine of ammunition available to them privately. Further ammunition, weapons, or equipment are maintained in local armories. Gun crime by random shooters is nearly unheard of, with only gun-crime related to feuding Noble households which rarely results in casualties, and even then those casualties are between mercenary or house guard units, and not against unarmed or unaware citizenry or civilians.

However, we do not credit the lower crime rates on the fact that all citizens are armed. Instead we credit our criminal policies. We believe it is the duty of the state to ensure their people's protection to the point that, armed or not, they need not rely on themselves for defense.

[Araraukar]

"Oh, the two are certainly unrelated. More guns doesn't cause less crime, but nor either does it cause more."

"They do tend to make violent crimes more lethal, though. It's much harder to kill someone barehanded than with a gun."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Oh, the two are certainly unrelated. More guns doesn't cause less crime, but nor either does it cause more."

"They do tend to make violent crimes more lethal, though. It's much harder to kill someone barehanded than with a gun."

"It also makes it easier to stop a violent crime, as C.D.S.P. studies have found. Can't get mugged if your mugger is dead!"

[Kenmoria]

“I would say, generally, that all of your clauses are a bit on the short side. Whilst this isn’t a bad thing per se, it has resulted in a few ambiguities regarding what it is in the target resolution. I recommend making sure that you reference or quote the relevant section of the target in each clause if you are introducing a new flaw in the resolution.”

[Araraukar]

"It also makes it easier to stop a violent crime, as C.D.S.P. studies have found. Can't get mugged if your mugger is dead!"

"Murdering a would-be-mugger still makes it murder. That you have a lethal weapon and the intent to use it, counts as premeditation."

[Separatist Peoples]

"It also makes it easier to stop a violent crime, as C.D.S.P. studies have found. Can't get mugged if your mugger is dead!"

"Murdering a would-be-mugger still makes it murder. That you have a lethal weapon and the intent to use it, counts as premeditation."

"Not in the C.D.S.P. it doesn't. Murder is the unlawful killing of another. There is nothing unlawful about turning a mugger into an organ sieve here. You're confusing murder with homicide. As for carrying a weapon, well, that's considered prudence here."

[Araraukar]

"Not in the C.D.S.P. it doesn't. Murder is the unlawful killing of another. There is nothing unlawful about turning a mugger into an organ sieve here. You're confusing murder with homicide. As for carrying a weapon, well, that's considered prudence here."

"Different culture, different safety concerns, Mr. Bell," Johan said diplomatically. He had been brought up to view the desire to own an actual lethal weapon as a mental illness, but respected ambassador Bell much too much to actually say it out loud. "However, as long as you wave your gun around outside of Araraukar's borders, my government really won't give a rat's ass about what you do with it. Though I would suggest considering shooting the mugger in the head so their organs could be harvested to benefit the law-abiding citizens, instead."

[Indo States]

Disagree.

Because Kids can Play Guns and Kill an Innocent Child. Even if they are Played Violent Games (like Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas or PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. PUBG had Blood and GTA SA is Rated M). I Actually Disagree. It is Make Children Teach Violent even if they are not Played Violent Games. It can Cause Spread of Youths in Prison. Protect Children from Using Guns, Keep your Guns It!

[Separatist Peoples]

Disagree.

Because Kids can Play Guns and Kill an Innocent Child. Even if they are Played Violent Games (like Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas or PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. PUBG had Blood and GTA SA is Rated M). I Actually Disagree. It is Make Children Teach Violent even if they are not Played Violent Games. It can Cause Spread of Youths in Prison. Protect Children from Using Guns, Keep your Guns It!

"This is not a topic that requires international regulation. This is a domestic policy determination, best handled at a national level."

[Indo States]

Disagree.

Because Kids can Play Guns and Kill an Innocent Child. Even if they are Played Violent Games (like Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas or PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. PUBG had Blood and GTA SA is Rated M). I Actually Disagree. It is Make Children Teach Violent even if they are not Played Violent Games. It can Cause Spread of Youths in Prison. Protect Children from Using Guns, Keep your Guns It!

"This is not a topic that requires international regulation. This is a domestic policy determination, best handled at a national level."

Right but I've Worried about Kids would Teach this when Repeal "Child Firearm Safety Act" is Passed. There would be Violence over that.

[Falcania]

"This is not a topic that requires international regulation. This is a domestic policy determination, best handled at a national level."

Right but I've Worried about Kids would Teach this when Repeal "Child Firearm Safety Act" is Passed. There would be Violence over that.

You should ban guns in your nation then.

[Separatist Peoples]

"This is not a topic that requires international regulation. This is a domestic policy determination, best handled at a national level."

Right but I've Worried about Kids would Teach this when Repeal "Child Firearm Safety Act" is Passed. There would be Violence over that.

"Sounds like a national problem."

[Elyreia]

Right but I've Worried about Kids would Teach this when Repeal "Child Firearm Safety Act" is Passed. There would be Violence over that.

The solution is to pass legislation in your own nation to ban guns so that, when and if the Child Firearm Safety Act is repealed, your nation will still have such firearms banned.

[Indo States]

Right but I've Worried about Kids would Teach this when Repeal "Child Firearm Safety Act" is Passed. There would be Violence over that.

"Sounds like a national problem."

Right but I've Worried about Kids would Teach this when Repeal "Child Firearm Safety Act" is Passed. There would be Violence over that.

The solution is to pass legislation in your own nation to ban guns so that, when and if the Child Firearm Safety Act is repealed, your nation will still have such firearms banned.

Falcania, Eleyra and Separatist Peoples, All Right but We Will Know to our Lower House (State Secretariat) to be Guns Banned for citizens. Only Defense Staff (Guards on Establishments, Female Blue Guards known as Blue Guards, Alpha Guards, Soldiers of Armed Forces and Police). As well, Right to Self Defense using Martial Arts is Under Pending on our Parliament.