[PASSED] Repeal GA #454 Debtor Voting Rights

[Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar]

I am not saying I am against the idea - just that there are far too many possible loopholes. I want to repeal it, and then work with IA to maybe address a couple of the issues it has.

General Assembly Resolution #454 “Debtor Voting Rights” (Category: Furtherment of Democracy; Strength: Mild) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

The General Assembly,

Acknowledging the efforts of GA Resolution #454 to prevent debts from inhibiting a citizen's right to vote,

Understanding though brevity is important in many cases, the extreme it was brought to in this resolution was counter productive,

Seeing numerous loopholes in the resolutions that more cruel states could employ, such as, but not limited to:

• Criminalizing outstanding debt under specific conditions to imprison the individual for the duration of the voting,
  
  
• Making outstanding debt punishable by law through a choice of forfeiture of voting rights or imprisonment,
  
  
• Passing legislation revoking the citizenship of a citizen, and thus their right to vote if they are indebted,

Understanding that the rights of those living in autocratic nations in regards to their political rights are not addressed,

Noticing the resolution does not specify on what debtors can not be stripped of the right to vote on,

Seeing that such a loosely worded clause is open to exploitation,

Believing the World Assembly Delegation of the nation which passed the legislation could write a more conclusive piece of legislation for this issue,

Hoping that member nations will create thoughtful and articulate legislation with regards to unforeseen consequences and in consideration to the variety of member states' cultural normalities on this issue,

Wishes that in the period the legislation is active its loopholes will not be exploited at the expense of the citizenry of nations across the multiverse,

Hereby repeals GA Resolution #454.

Co-authored by Elyreia

As of now it is still in drafting, I did this pretty late at night. Ideas?

I.A. please make it a little longer - I really don't want a piece of legislation this fundamental to be easily loopholed.

Seriously though - please don't hate me I.A. I really don't want to get you on my bad side... you are an amazing GA Author - I look up to you.

[Kenmoria]

“I appreciate that this is a work in progress, but your reasoning behind your current only objection doesn’t seem to work. If member nations may not invoke debt as a reason to prevent people from voting, then invoking that because of prison as a result of debt seems as though it would also be prohibited.”

[Jutsa]

“I disagree, ambassador. Though this resolution protects voters in debt, nowhere does it protect voters in prison, regardless of why they're in prison.”

[Arasi Luvasa]

"Would a seperate resolution detailing the rights of nations to allow and disallow voting rights in regards to criminal convictions or imprisonment not suffice? I don't see a need to repeal the legislation at vote."

[Jutsa]

“Agreed.”

[Dirty Americans]

tl;dr

[Falcania]

"Would a seperate resolution detailing the rights of nations to allow and disallow voting rights in regards to criminal convictions or imprisonment not suffice? I don't see a need to repeal the legislation at vote."

All of this legislation takes it as read that every constituent member of the World Assembly is, or should be, a democracy. While we in the Free Kingdom engage in regular votes, for example, it wouldn't be accurate to describe our governance as a democracy in the conventional sense of the term. We understand that our system works for us; we wouldn't attempt to force it on another nation, and in return we wouldn't want to have another system forced upon us.

[Arasi Luvasa]

"If a nation does not hold votes, the legislation simply doesn't affect said nation. It does not impose votes onto forms of government which simply do not have votes at all."

[Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar]

Uh, telling me something OOC would be great, because I have no idea what is going on.

However, I need to update this draft.

The reason a repeal is necessary is because no other resolution will be able to pass on this topic to patch the loopholes while it is active legislation. We can’t patch these loopholes while it is active.

[United Massachusetts]

“I disagree, ambassador. Though this resolution protects voters in debt, nowhere does it protect voters in prison, regardless of why they're in prison.”

Can confirm. Voting Equality for Freed Inmates prohibits WA legislation that does as much.

[Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar]

Okay! Updated! Thoughts now?

[Arasi Luvasa]

“I disagree, ambassador. Though this resolution protects voters in debt, nowhere does it protect voters in prison, regardless of why they're in prison.”

Can confirm. Voting Equality for Freed Inmates prohibits WA legislation that does as much.

If the issue exists with allowing only certain inmates the vote, then I doubt a repeal of the resolution in question could change that issue.

Uh, telling me something OOC would be great, because I have no idea what is going on.

However, I need to update this draft.

The reason a repeal is necessary is because no other resolution will be able to pass on this topic to patch the loopholes while it is active legislation. We can’t patch these loopholes while it is active.

Anyway separate legislation could be created to either allow those imprisoned for debt to vote or to prevent the imprisonment of debtors in some form (or during certain periods). How exactly it would work would be up to you to work out.

[Durzan]

Can confirm. Voting Equality for Freed Inmates prohibits WA legislation that does as much.

If the issue exists with allowing only certain inmates the vote, then I doubt a repeal of the resolution in question could change that issue.

Uh, telling me something OOC would be great, because I have no idea what is going on.

However, I need to update this draft.

The reason a repeal is necessary is because no other resolution will be able to pass on this topic to patch the loopholes while it is active legislation. We can’t patch these loopholes while it is active.

Anyway separate legislation could be created to either allow those imprisoned for debt to vote or to prevent the imprisonment of debtors in some form (or during certain periods). How exactly it would work would be up to you to work out.

"Better to have it all in one place, and in one piece of legislation, Ambassador."

[Falcania]

"If a nation does not hold votes, the legislation simply doesn't affect said nation. It does not impose votes onto forms of government which simply do not have votes at all."

The Free Kingdom functions on a largely corporate authority, where each citizen votes according to their status as shareholders, on the decisions faced by the corporations they hold a stake in, on issues ranging from basic corporate policy all the way up to the governance of the nation. Given the way that voting equity is purchased share-by-share on the open market, and that each corporate entity that trades publicly is entitled to divide its shares as it sees fit, including the financial status of its stakeholders, legislation from the General Assembly that prohibits or protects voters' rights based on financial standards would impose a cultural standard on the citizens of the Free Kingdom that they could very well find intolerable.

[Arasi Luvasa]

If the issue exists with allowing only certain inmates the vote, then I doubt a repeal of the resolution in question could change that issue.



Anyway separate legislation could be created to either allow those imprisoned for debt to vote or to prevent the imprisonment of debtors in some form (or during certain periods). How exactly it would work would be up to you to work out.

"Better to have it all in one place, and in one piece of legislation, Ambassador."

"So that it is more easily repealed? Or too not create too big a list of resolutions, which point we are already far past? I see no real benefit in having everything in a single resolution, especially if it can lead to more pieces of legislation that I do not need to look over for lengthy periods of time."

[West Edenvi]

We think I will repeal it when the opportunity opens. For our country it's a big loophole. We should not pass this kind of resolutions.

[Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar]

We think I will repeal it when the opportunity opens. For our country it's a big loophole. We should not pass this kind of resolutions.

Would you care to help me?

[Elyreia]

"We're in agreement that the current legislation is atrocious when it comes to performing the tasks required. Not only does it create a number of issues of precedence and procedure (if a criminal is in debt due to reparations of other crimes, would the WA legislature overrule the criminal having their suffrage revoked due to the WA Proposal having precedence over all other local laws that may revoke the right to vote for other crimes?) as well as not even accounting to those nations that have no voting rights to begin with, or even a method or means by which to enforce or even monitor such wide-reaching legislation.

"As such, Elyreia is also working on a draft proposal to repeal the current legislation when it passes. Our current draft:"

Acknowledging the varied nation states and their governments in the World Assembly, including their institutions either hindering, protecting, or promoting the right of citizenry to vote in their respective governments.

Concerned at the far-reaching consequences of the legislation passed regarding the voting rights of incarcerated persons, including but not necessarily limited to the initial proposal.

Noting that the proposal includes no provisions by which to enforce itself on those member-states that are adherent and affected by the proposal.

Disturbed at the potential consequences the proposal may have on governments that do not acknowledge the voting rights of incarcerated persons regardless of crime or financial status.

Appalled at the verbosity, or lack thereof, within the proposal that was enacted.

Understanding that in many democratic nations, the rights to suffrage are often recognized as universal across all social and economic strata.

Resolving to repeal the previous legislation in order to address the concerns of both democratic and autocratic nations.

Promising that should the previous legislation be repealed, the government proposing the repeal will bring forth a motion of a proper proposal regarding Debtor rights for World Assembly nations taking into consideration our varied cultures and societies in no longer than 7 days time.

The World Assembly hereby repeals "Debtor Voting Rights".

"We accept any and all criticism or recommendations and welcome our colleagues from Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar to a collaborative effort and joint resolution."

[Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar]

"We're in agreement that the current legislation is atrocious when it comes to performing the tasks required. Not only does it create a number of issues of precedence and procedure (if a criminal is in debt due to reparations of other crimes, would the WA legislature overrule the criminal having their suffrage revoked due to the WA Proposal having precedence over all other local laws that may revoke the right to vote for other crimes?) as well as not even accounting to those nations that have no voting rights to begin with, or even a method or means by which to enforce or even monitor such wide-reaching legislation.

"As such, Elyreia is also working on a draft proposal to repeal the current legislation when it passes. Our current draft:"

Acknowledging the varied nation states and their governments in the World Assembly, including their institutions either hindering, protecting, or promoting the right of citizenry to vote in their respective governments.

Concerned at the far-reaching consequences of the legislation passed regarding the voting rights of incarcerated persons, including but not necessarily limited to the initial proposal.

Noting that the proposal includes no provisions by which to enforce itself on those member-states that are adherent and affected by the proposal.

Disturbed at the potential consequences the proposal may have on governments that do not acknowledge the voting rights of incarcerated persons regardless of crime or financial status.

Appalled at the verbosity, or lack thereof, within the proposal that was enacted.

Understanding that in many democratic nations, the rights to suffrage are often recognized as universal across all social and economic strata.

Resolving to repeal the previous legislation in order to address the concerns of both democratic and autocratic nations.

Promising that should the previous legislation be repealed, the government proposing the repeal will bring forth a motion of a proper proposal regarding Debtor rights for World Assembly nations taking into consideration our varied cultures and societies in no longer than 7 days time.

The World Assembly hereby repeals "Debtor Voting Rights".

"We accept any and all criticism or recommendations and welcome our colleagues from Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar to a collaborative effort and joint resolution."

Fantastic! A lot of these points are solid - you are being credited as an author, and really, these points will add a lot to the draft!

Yay for teamwork!

As for critisism, I will get back to you on that soon, but for now, I think the final clause is illegal.

[Elyreia]

Fantastic! A lot of these points are solid - you are being credited as an author, and really, these points will add a lot to the draft!

Yay for teamwork!

As for critisism, I will get back to you on that soon, but for now, I think the final clause is illegal.

"It shall be stricken from the proposal. Perhaps an 'Encouraging members to create thoughtful and articulate legislation with regards to unforeseen consequences and in consideration to the variety of member states', or something."

[Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar]

Fantastic! A lot of these points are solid - you are being credited as an author, and really, these points will add a lot to the draft!

Yay for teamwork!

As for critisism, I will get back to you on that soon, but for now, I think the final clause is illegal.

"It shall be stricken from the proposal. Perhaps an 'Encouraging members to create thoughtful and articulate legislation with regards to unforeseen consequences and in consideration to the variety of member states', or something."

Agreed. Allow me to change the wording for legality reasons, and I think we have a solid proposal!

[The Hellsing Empire]

tl;dr

Comments like this should be a reason why certain nations like yours should not be allowed in the WA.

[Ardortia]

Explain this enforcement argument. As far as I am aware, all resolutions are perfectly enforcing. Stat changes show that.

[Kenmoria]

Explain this enforcement argument. As far as I am aware, all resolutions are perfectly enforcing. Stat changes show that.

(OOC: I agree with the fact that the enforcement argument is quite weak. The Administrative Compliance Act enforced all past or possible future resolution through fines and sanctions if fines are not paid. Also, it is just assumed that mandates are fulfilled by national governments, since it is bad roleplaying to just ignore WA obligations.

On my prior point about banning people in prison for debt from voting as being the same as banning people from voting for debt alone, I recognise there is certainly a colourable and persuasive argument for the opposite. However, IA is currently working on a draft for that very loophole, which is something at which I suggest you should look.)

[Ardortia]

About that, thoughts on IA's argument in the target resolution FAQ that doing so would violate GAR#2's good faith clause?