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by Tinfect » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:10 pm
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
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by Tinfect » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:55 pm
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by Kenmoria » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:23 am
by Tinfect » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:53 pm
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by Araraukar » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:07 pm
Tinfect wrote:OOC: I still don't feel that this is ready. If anyone has anything of substance to say, it would be appreciated.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Kenmoria » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:28 am
by Wallenburg » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:18 pm
Tinfect wrote:Defines solitary confinement as the complete or severe isolation of prisoners from contact with other inmates and/or prison staff,
Protective confinement as the severe isolation of prisoners from contact with other inmates due to clear and present danger(s) to their life in the general prison population,
The holding of any prisoner in solitary confinement for any period greater than two days,
The holding of any prisoner in consecutive periods of solitary confinement,
The holding of any prisoners in inhumane conditions,
The holding of any prisoner in protective confinement without the informed consent of the prisoner, barring circumstances that render the prisoner legally unable to make such a decision,
The holding of any prisoner under the age of majority in solitary confinement.
That Member-States provide to prisoners sentenced to capital punishment accessible legal counsel and supportfor any prisoner sentenced to Capital Punishment, including access to appeals and stays of execution,
That prisoners subject to protective or solitary confinement be allowed regular contact with psychiatric staff,
That prisoners subject to protective confinement be allowed access to visitation as regularly allowed to prisoners,
by Tinfect » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:21 pm
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Araraukar » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:22 pm
Tinfect wrote:Annoyed by the insistence regarding passing yet another pointless non-compromise that will merely facilitate legal abuses and result in infinitely worse legislation being passed,
Acknowledging prior attempts to ensure that the criminal justice systems of Member-States operate in a just and ethical manner,
Dismayed by their failure to adequately provide protections from legal abuse and to provide closure and restitution to victims,
1. Capital punishment as the execution of a criminal convicted of a crime as sentence for said crime,
2. Solitary confinement as the complete or severe isolation of prisoners from contact with other inmates and prison staff,
Protective confinement as the severe isolation of prisoners from contact with other inmates due to clear and present dangers to their life in the general prison population,
Inhumane conditions as the refusal or withholding of necessary and healthy sustenance, medically or mentally necessary healthcare, severely confined or crowded conditions, or conditions inferior to those mandated for prisoners of war,
The holding of any prisoner under the age of majority in solitary confinement.
The holding of any prisoner in solitary confinement for any period greater than three days, or in consecutive periods of solitary confinement,
The holding of any prisoner in protective confinement without the informed consent of the prisoner, barring circumstances that render the prisoner legally unable to make such a decision,
The sentencing of any individual under the age of majority, or any individual deemed legally incompetent, to capital punishment,
That Member-States provide to prisoners sentenced to capital punishment accessible legal counsel and support, including access to appeals and stays of execution,
That, in the case of a pregnant individual being sentenced to capital punishment, that execution be stayed until such time as the prisoner is no longer pregnant,
That protective solitary confinement be be utilized only when there exists a clear and present danger to holding the prisoner within the general prison area,
That, once a prisoner has been subjected to protective confinement, all practical measures must be taken to allow their safe return to general prison populations as soon as possible.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Wallenburg » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:43 pm
Araraukar wrote:That, in the case of a pregnant individual being sentenced to capital punishment, that execution be stayed until such time as the prisoner is no longer pregnant,
To avoid forced abortions, maybe "either due to natural processes or voluntarily obtained abortion" at the end?
by United Massachusetts » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:58 pm
by Araraukar » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:21 pm
United Massachusetts wrote:Isn't the argument that we shouldn't execute a pregnant woman predicated on the notion that fetuses have inherent worth? This principle would seem to contradict GA 286.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Tinfect » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:33 pm
United Massachusetts wrote:Isn't the argument that we shouldn't execute a pregnant woman predicated on the notion that fetuses have inherent worth? This principle would seem to contradict GA 286.
Araraukar wrote:[...]
What is this a reference to? It sounds too snippy to open the proposal with.
Araraukar wrote:I feel like saying "source?" Also, I'm seeing no justification on why this is an international issue. Whether you go for "crime is international too" or "prisoners are people too", something like that should probably be included.
Araraukar wrote:If this for some reason needs to be defined, why not "as the sentenced ending of the life of a convicted criminal by a person or persons acting on behalf of the state".
Araraukar wrote:Maybe add "involuntary" before "isolation"? That would contrast it more against protective confinement.
Araraukar wrote:...but not to protect others from them? (Like if a third party had both Velrahn and an Imperial citizen as prisoner, it'd make sense to put the Imperial citizen in isolation because it's more likely they'd try to kill the Velrahn than the other way round.
Araraukar wrote:So children can be freely imprisoned and let to be murdered and abused (as they can't legally consent to protective confinement) by the general population?
Araraukar wrote:Does consecutive here mean back-to-back?
Araraukar wrote:Does this work for the moment the sentence is given or the moment the criminal deed was done or the moment the death penalty would be enacted? Because people can have birthdays or may sustain a brain injury that lowers their understanding of things below legal competence, between those important dates.
Araraukar wrote:To avoid the "incessant appeals" maybe add "unless such options have already been exhausted" at the end?
Araraukar wrote:To avoid forced abortions, maybe "either due to natural processes or voluntarily obtained abortion" at the end?
Araraukar wrote:These "practical measures" do not include locking up everyone else, I take it? Maybe change "practical" to "reasonable"?
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Araraukar » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:11 pm
Tinfect wrote:If Member-States allow infinite appeals without restriction, that's their own judicial nightmare.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Aclion » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:27 pm
Tinfect wrote:United Massachusetts wrote:Isn't the argument that we shouldn't execute a pregnant woman predicated on the notion that fetuses have inherent worth? This principle would seem to contradict GA 286.
OOC:
I will not have abortion debate in this thread. This draft makes no statement on abortion or the supposed worth of fetuses; it is entirely unreasonable to assume anything of the sort in a desperate bid to find illegality.
by Tinfect » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:27 pm
Araraukar wrote:OOC: But under the clauses of this particular proposal, can a person be executed before they have used up all available appeals?
Araraukar wrote:Like, do they only need to be allowed those appeals that they can squeeze into the time before their execution, or must the execution be delayed beyond "a reasonable date past sentencing" to process the appeals and then again not being able to execute them because the reasonable time has passed? This isn't an improvement at all!
Aclion wrote:If you are giving a stay of execution to pregnant women you are engaging in an institution based on the presumption that a fetus is a separate person with it's own rights, a presumption that is explicitly rejected by existing resolution.
Aclion wrote:(you are also discriminating on the basis of sex, as you are not mandating that pregnant men be given a stay of execution.)
Tinfect wrote:That, in the case of a pregnant individual being sentenced to capital punishment, that execution be stayed until such time as the prisoner is no longer pregnant,
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
by Sierra Lyricalia » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:49 pm
Tinfect wrote:Aclion wrote:If you are giving a stay of execution to pregnant women you are engaging in an institution based on the presumption that a fetus is a separate person with it's own rights, a presumption that is explicitly rejected by existing resolution.
If you genuinely think this, take it up with GenSec. I will not have abortion debate in my drafting thread.
Araraukar wrote:If the pregnant individual wants the fetus to survive into a baby, they will not get an abortion, and the state should honor that decision by letting the pregnancy progress to its natural end. It's not that the fetus has worth as such, it's the pregnant individual's choice of trying to carry it to term that does.
by Spasibomasfreed » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:00 pm
Tinfect wrote:Araraukar wrote:
So children can be freely imprisoned and let to be murdered and abused (as they can't legally consent to protective confinement) by the general population?
by Tinfect » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:03 pm
Spasibomasfreed wrote:Tinfect wrote:Araraukar wrote:
So children can be freely imprisoned and let to be murdered and abused (as they can't legally consent to protective confinement) by the general population?
"The context of children respectively should be somewhat defined by the crime severity. As a minor from age 13 and up has hormones that can cause wild tendencies leading to such things as school shootings.
The parents should hold some part of accountability as well. Proper home training could prevent such atrocities. Parent(s) or Legal Guardians should be fully responsible for the actions of their children up until the child reaches 13 (see trial for minors definition below)
Minors on Felony Trial - Anyone under 18 is considered a minor any minor age 13 and up is held accountable as an adult for any felony action. Parents are responsible for the actions of their children up until the child reaches 13, which at that point the child (still being a child until 18) would be fully responsible of upholding ethical and moral principles or will punished by the law and automatically tried in courts as an adult. Parents are liable for all actions up until the child reaches 13 which at which point the parent(s) are only liable if the parent(s) could have prevented the child's actions(proof of liability may be required by defendant attorney or prosecuting attorney depending on the severity of the case)."
This all is just an idea that I believe is important. If you don't agree, Toss it, there'd be no sense if we couldn't come to a bi-partisan agreement on the issue.
Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
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