[PASSED] International Criminal Protocol

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Not when you're put in time-out to calm down. Spending a couple of hours alone won't drive sane people into psychosis.

No, it absolutely is torture, regardless of the reason you say you are doing it.

If they're psychotic to begin with, they likely should be alone in a room.

We should treat mentally ill people by locking them up and throwing away the key? Really?

Isolation isn't fun, but sometimes it's the only solution. Banning it entirely can't be done without providing working alternatives. Unfortunately in many cases the alternatives (medicating people without their consent/using physical restraints/etc.) are even more problematic.

Name me one circumstance in which total isolation for an extended period of time is necessary to contain an inmate.

OOC: I agree with most of what you say here, Wally, but a few hours of solitude is probably not torture, even if its involuntary...

[Kenmoria]

“In mandate clause 5, you have ‘be be’ after ‘confinement’. One of the ‘be’s should be removed.”

[Greater vakolicci haven]

No, it absolutely is torture, regardless of the reason you say you are doing it.

We should treat mentally ill people by locking them up and throwing away the key? Really?

Name me one circumstance in which total isolation for an extended period of time is necessary to contain an inmate.

OOC: I agree with most of what you say here, Wally, but a few hours of solitude is probably not torture, even if its involuntary...

"Prison can never be necessary. Confinement without attempts at rehabilitation serve no other purpose than to 'set an example' or grandstand about being 'tough on crime.'"

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: I agree with most of what you say here, Wally, but a few hours of solitude is probably not torture, even if its involuntary...

"Prison can never be necessary. Confinement without attempts at rehabilitation serve no other purpose than to 'set an example' or grandstand about being 'tough on crime.'"

"I agree that confinement without rehabilitation is merely antipathy. I do not agree that temporary isolation amounting to mere hours is, axiomatically, torture."

[Tinfect]

"The draft has been adjusted. Please examine it at your leisure."

[Old Hope]

"The draft has been adjusted. Please examine it at your leisure."

"You should make an attempt to exclude protective confinement from the definition of solitary confinement or exclude protective confinement from the two days rule on solitary confinement."

[Greater vakolicci haven]

"Prison can never be necessary. Confinement without attempts at rehabilitation serve no other purpose than to 'set an example' or grandstand about being 'tough on crime.'"

"I agree that confinement without rehabilitation is merely antipathy. I do not agree that temporary isolation amounting to mere hours is, axiomatically, torture."

"The deprivation of liberty without an attempt at rehabilitation, as shown in most if not all instances of solitary confinement, is an unnecessary and unproportionate restriction of human rights. Such action solves no particular purpose, and constitutes a grave indignity on the person concerned, as well as the removal of several highly important human rights."

[Separatist Peoples]

"I agree that confinement without rehabilitation is merely antipathy. I do not agree that temporary isolation amounting to mere hours is, axiomatically, torture."

"The deprivation of liberty without an attempt at rehabilitation, as shown in most if not all instances of solitary confinement, is an unnecessary and unproportionate restriction of human rights. Such action solves no particular purpose, and constitutes a grave indignity on the person concerned, as well as the removal of several highly important human rights."

"I don't believe you're listening to me, ambassador. Temporary solitary confinement amounting to hours and not days or more is not axiomatically torture, nor is it axiomatically a refusal to engage in rehabilitation. Sometimes, forced separation is an effective tool at diffusing tensions for an instigator following, say, a fight between prisoners, or some other breakdown. Its an opportunity for the prisoner to be isolated from instigation while giving them the opportunity to calm down in private. People self-segregate for these reasons literally all the time. The difference here is that merely being returned to a cell does not necessarily guarantee isolation.

"There are, therefore, reasons to isolate somebody for a span of hours that is not torturous, and does not inherently damage the rehabilitative process. That is not to say that solitary confinement is always a reasonable option, but that it is capable of use in a manner not axiomatically torturous or obstructive to rehabilitation."

[Falcania]

Is it more just to condemn someone to irreversible oblivion, or a temporary unpleasantness?

Solitary confinement is more than just "temporary unpleasantness". It is demonstrably a form of torture, and has been shown to drive inmates into psychosis.

Some of the Free Kingdom's top scientists have done some research, and it turns out that executions have been shown to cause death in inmates. In the opinion of this delegation, that is quite serious.

[Kyoki Chudoku]

Kyoki Chudoku had, in this case, not even dispatched a proper ambassador to deal with the situation, but instead, Hanabi, the nation’s head of a security. With a harsh tone and half-shouting every word, she began to speak.

“Kyoki Chudoku considers committing any crime an exceptional betrayal of national security. Therefore, this proposal won’t affect us harshly. Nonetheless, there are some circumstances were prolonged solitary confinement may become necessary. Naosu’s the expert on quarantine situations, for example, but there are other situations. Keeping murderous psychopaths out of the way of others, for example, before the time of their execution arrives. It’s true, isolation can be used as punishment. An effective one, honestly. But it can also be used for other reasons.”

[Greater vakolicci haven]

"The deprivation of liberty without an attempt at rehabilitation, as shown in most if not all instances of solitary confinement, is an unnecessary and unproportionate restriction of human rights. Such action solves no particular purpose, and constitutes a grave indignity on the person concerned, as well as the removal of several highly important human rights."

"I don't believe you're listening to me, ambassador. Temporary solitary confinement amounting to hours and not days or more is not axiomatically torture, nor is it axiomatically a refusal to engage in rehabilitation. Sometimes, forced separation is an effective tool at diffusing tensions for an instigator following, say, a fight between prisoners, or some other breakdown. Its an opportunity for the prisoner to be isolated from instigation while giving them the opportunity to calm down in private. People self-segregate for these reasons literally all the time. The difference here is that merely being returned to a cell does not necessarily guarantee isolation.

"There are, therefore, reasons to isolate somebody for a span of hours that is not torturous, and does not inherently damage the rehabilitative process. That is not to say that solitary confinement is always a reasonable option, but that it is capable of use in a manner not axiomatically torturous or obstructive to rehabilitation."

"We appear to be coming at this from very different angles," the Havenic ambassador sighed, "The Haven does not possess any prisons. It uses house arrest, with full visitation rights and regularly scheduled periods of monitored release, combined with a psychiatric approach to curing the criminal behaviour. We do not only consider solitary confinement to be torturous, we consider imprisonment in a conventional sense to in itself be a disproportionate restriction of human rights. It simply is not what is done in the Haven, and I hope that the world can learn from our example."

[Kowani]

Kyoki Chudoku had, in this case, not even dispatched a proper ambassador to deal with the situation, but instead, Hanabi, the nation’s head of a security. With a harsh tone and half-shouting every word, she began to speak.

“Kyoki Chudoku considers committing any crime an exceptional betrayal of national security. Therefore, this proposal won’t affect us harshly. Nonetheless, there are some circumstances were prolonged solitary confinement may become necessary. Naosu’s the expert on quarantine situations, for example, but there are other situations. Keeping murderous psychopaths out of the way of others, for example, before the time of their execution arrives. It’s true, isolation can be used as punishment. An effective one, honestly. But it can also be used for other reasons.”

Ambassador Nego raises an eyebrow at the overblown response. “Every crime?” “Jaywalkers must be a rare species in your backwater.” “Although I will admit to not knowing your legal code inside and out, I very much doubt your use of the death penalty complies with WA Regulations.”

[Separatist Peoples]

"I don't believe you're listening to me, ambassador. Temporary solitary confinement amounting to hours and not days or more is not axiomatically torture, nor is it axiomatically a refusal to engage in rehabilitation. Sometimes, forced separation is an effective tool at diffusing tensions for an instigator following, say, a fight between prisoners, or some other breakdown. Its an opportunity for the prisoner to be isolated from instigation while giving them the opportunity to calm down in private. People self-segregate for these reasons literally all the time. The difference here is that merely being returned to a cell does not necessarily guarantee isolation.

"There are, therefore, reasons to isolate somebody for a span of hours that is not torturous, and does not inherently damage the rehabilitative process. That is not to say that solitary confinement is always a reasonable option, but that it is capable of use in a manner not axiomatically torturous or obstructive to rehabilitation."

"We appear to be coming at this from very different angles," the Havenic ambassador sighed, "The Haven does not possess any prisons. It uses house arrest, with full visitation rights and regularly scheduled periods of monitored release, combined with a psychiatric approach to curing the criminal behaviour. We do not only consider solitary confinement to be torturous, we consider imprisonment in a conventional sense to in itself be a disproportionate restriction of human rights. It simply is not what is done in the Haven, and I hope that the world can learn from our example."

"Ambassador, while I'm sure that is a well-intended position, do you not think this to be a little, ah, ambitious of a position to take here?"

[Greater vakolicci haven]

"We appear to be coming at this from very different angles," the Havenic ambassador sighed, "The Haven does not possess any prisons. It uses house arrest, with full visitation rights and regularly scheduled periods of monitored release, combined with a psychiatric approach to curing the criminal behaviour. We do not only consider solitary confinement to be torturous, we consider imprisonment in a conventional sense to in itself be a disproportionate restriction of human rights. It simply is not what is done in the Haven, and I hope that the world can learn from our example."

"Ambassador, while I'm sure that is a well-intended position, do you not think this to be a little, ah, ambitious of a position to take here?"

"Not at all," the ambassador smiled cheerily, "This position has dramatically cut crime rights across all provinces in which it has been instituted. Of course, certain provinces do not allow the central government a say in their own criminal justice, as is their right, however even the majority of these have adopted this position."

[Kyoki Chudoku]

She scoffed at the mention of jaywalkers. “Alright, fine. Every serious crime. People make mistakes sometimes, yeah, walk on the wrong side of the road once in a while. There is a difference between that and, say, distributing poison. And maybe it doesn’t. Give us a break. We’re trying to recover from half our nation getting wiped out here, and I don’t think anyone thought for single second about World Assembly regulations in the war. You’d probably have a heart attack hearing what that situation was like. Don’t want to go into it, though. The point I was getting at before was that here, we consider committing a crime to be a treasonous act, and therefore, potentially an exceptional act of betrayal”

She then faced the ambassador arguing for prisons...not existing. The idea was ridiculous in her mind. “So you’re saying that if someone kills ten people, defiles their corpses, and eats the remains to top it off, the most you’re going to do is just...make them stay in their own house?”

[Greater vakolicci haven]

She scoffed at the mention of jaywalkers. “Alright, fine. Every serious crime. People make mistakes sometimes, yeah, walk on the wrong side of the road once in a while. There is a difference between that and, say, distributing poison. And maybe it doesn’t. Give us a break. We’re trying to recover from half our nation getting wiped out here, and I don’t think anyone thought for single second about World Assembly regulations in the war. You’d probably have a heart attack hearing what that situation was like. Don’t want to go into it, though. The point I was getting at before was that here, we consider committing a crime to be a treasonous act, and therefore, potentially an exceptional act of betrayal”

She then faced the ambassador arguing for prisons...not existing. The idea was ridiculous in her mind. “So you’re saying that if someone kills ten people, defiles their corpses, and eats the remains to top it off, the most you’re going to do is just...make them stay in their own house?”

The ambassador looked serenely at the previous speaker.
"And cure whatever causes them to act this way, yes."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Ambassador, while I'm sure that is a well-intended position, do you not think this to be a little, ah, ambitious of a position to take here?"

"Not at all," the ambassador smiled cheerily, "This position has dramatically cut crime rights across all provinces in which it has been instituted. Of course, certain provinces do not allow the central government a say in their own criminal justice, as is their right, however even the majority of these have adopted this position."

"I don't doubt it. I mean that it's an ambitious policy for which to advocate in the GA."

[Greater vakolicci haven]

"Not at all," the ambassador smiled cheerily, "This position has dramatically cut crime rights across all provinces in which it has been instituted. Of course, certain provinces do not allow the central government a say in their own criminal justice, as is their right, however even the majority of these have adopted this position."

"I don't doubt it. I mean that it's an ambitious policy for which to advocate in the GA."

"Oh I wouldn't attempt to force it on you," he laughed, "That's not my business. I will not be submitting this as a resolution, simply advising that it is the best course of action to take."

[Kyoki Chudoku]

Hanabi couldn’t resist a facepalm. In her mind, the idea of letting traitors, lethal ones at that, just live their lives as if nothing happened, was absurd. “Ever heard of an incurable disease? How in anything do you people...how can you...I give up on you. But I’m getting distracted. I suppose the main concern here was solitary cofinement, wasn’t it? We make extensive use of solitary confinement here in Kyoki Chudoku. For one thing, it helps stop prisoners doing harm to each other. That’s not their purpose. For another thing, there are some circumstances where it’s necessary to isolate someone from everyone else. For example, if they’re unstable. I don’t think I’ll persusde you on the topic, since you think prisons are too much for mass murderers, but that’s our stance.”

[Falcania]

"Not at all," the ambassador smiled cheerily, "This position has dramatically cut crime rights across all provinces in which it has been instituted. Of course, certain provinces do not allow the central government a say in their own criminal justice, as is their right, however even the majority of these have adopted this position."

"I don't doubt it. I mean that it's an ambitious policy for which to advocate in the GA."

I don't know why you'd call it ambitious, all it would require would be many hundreds of millions of talons worth of social work training, wireless tracking technology infrastructure...

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Hanabi couldn’t resist a facepalm. In her mind, the idea of letting traitors, lethal ones at that, just live their lives as if nothing happened, was absurd. “Ever heard of an incurable disease? How in anything do you people...how can you...I give up on you. But I’m getting distracted. I suppose the main concern here was solitary cofinement, wasn’t it? We make extensive use of solitary confinement here in Kyoki Chudoku. For one thing, it helps stop prisoners doing harm to each other. That’s not their purpose. For another thing, there are some circumstances where it’s necessary to isolate someone from everyone else. For example, if they’re unstable. I don’t think I’ll persusde you on the topic, since you think prisons are too much for mass murderers, but that’s our stance.”

The ambassador fished out a form from his briefcase. "Since you mention that your nation is rebuilding," he told Hanabi, "Have you considered becoming a Havenic province? We can assist with the rebuilding and civilising effort."

[Falcania]

Hanabi couldn’t resist a facepalm. In her mind, the idea of letting traitors, lethal ones at that, just live their lives as if nothing happened, was absurd. “Ever heard of an incurable disease? How in anything do you people...how can you...I give up on you. But I’m getting distracted. I suppose the main concern here was solitary cofinement, wasn’t it? We make extensive use of solitary confinement here in Kyoki Chudoku. For one thing, it helps stop prisoners doing harm to each other. That’s not their purpose. For another thing, there are some circumstances where it’s necessary to isolate someone from everyone else. For example, if they’re unstable. I don’t think I’ll persusde you on the topic, since you think prisons are too much for mass murderers, but that’s our stance.”

The ambassador fished out a form from his briefcase. "Since you mention that your nation is rebuilding," he told Hanabi, "Have you considered becoming a Havenic province? We can assist with the rebuilding and civilising effort."

My goodness, Ambassador. The Free Kingdom has turned humanitarian redevelopment of devastated regions into a growing and profitable industrial sector and even by my standards that's impressively crass, or crassly impressive.

[Kyoki Chudoku]

Hanabi couldn’t resist a facepalm. In her mind, the idea of letting traitors, lethal ones at that, just live their lives as if nothing happened, was absurd. “Ever heard of an incurable disease? How in anything do you people...how can you...I give up on you. But I’m getting distracted. I suppose the main concern here was solitary cofinement, wasn’t it? We make extensive use of solitary confinement here in Kyoki Chudoku. For one thing, it helps stop prisoners doing harm to each other. That’s not their purpose. For another thing, there are some circumstances where it’s necessary to isolate someone from everyone else. For example, if they’re unstable. I don’t think I’ll persusde you on the topic, since you think prisons are too much for mass murderers, but that’s our stance.”

The ambassador fished out a form from his briefcase. "Since you mention that your nation is rebuilding," he told Hanabi, "Have you considered becoming a Havenic province? We can assist with the rebuilding and civilising effort."

Hanabi laughed out loud at that. “What, spend a month in the depths of hell defending our ideals, only to become a puppet state of a democracy? Get that form away from me before I set it on fire. I don’t have that authority anyway. I’m Head of Security. If you’re really going to offer that, you’d have to talk to Tokiko or the Supreme Overlady of All Reality. Actually, don’t. They might kill you for the mere suggestion.”

[Greater vakolicci haven]

The ambassador fished out a form from his briefcase. "Since you mention that your nation is rebuilding," he told Hanabi, "Have you considered becoming a Havenic province? We can assist with the rebuilding and civilising effort."

Hanabi laughed out loud at that. “What, spend a month in the depths of hell defending our ideals, only to become a puppet state of a democracy? Get that form away from me before I set it on fire. I don’t have that authority anyway. I’m Head of Security. If you’re really going to offer that, you’d have to talk to Tokiko or the Supreme Overlady of All Reality. Actually, don’t. They might kill you for the mere suggestion.”

"Many Havenic provinces are not democracies...in fact I can't even claim to speak for all of them, just the central government. The Havenic government would actually only have the domestic authority to enforce this resolution, or any for that matter, on around 50 % of its population."

[Kowani]

Hanabi laughed out loud at that. “What, spend a month in the depths of hell defending our ideals, only to become a puppet state of a democracy? Get that form away from me before I set it on fire. I don’t have that authority anyway. I’m Head of Security. If you’re really going to offer that, you’d have to talk to Tokiko or the Supreme Overlady of All Reality. Actually, don’t. They might kill you for the mere suggestion.”

"Many Havenic provinces are not democracies...in fact I can't even claim to speak for all of them, just the central government. The Havenic government would actually only have the domestic authority to enforce this resolution, or any for that matter, on around 50 % of its population."

Which is a violation of more WA resolutions, ambassador.