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[DRAFT] Convention Against Reproductive Cloning

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Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5235
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Tue May 21, 2019 10:42 pm

"Absolutely not," said Markhov, completely unaware that the emblem pin on his hat was upside down, "In other words, Ambassador, the Imperium finds the argumentation unconvincing at best. To begin, this presumption that the process would deprive an individual of the rights secured to them is... baseless. They would remain an individual being, separate entirely from their genetic source. We must note that we find it quite notable that your delegation rejects the self-determination of children, when their genetic status is not strictly unique, yet, you consider it paramount here, such to the point that it is extended beyond all reason. To, I suppose, clarify, the denial of self-identity and self determination would be classified as child abuse, and prohibited as such, as is the situation with children produced by biological processes.

Second, the argument of the 'inherence of eugenics'; 'reproductive cloning', as defined by this legislation, is an attempt to bring about a being exactly similar to another. Your argumentation in this clause rejects this premise, being founded entirely on the possibility of modified clones.
Further, the later assumption that such technologies would be available for private access, is... well, I hardly see the need to consider it. If a Member-State is willing to do something so utterly unreasonable, there is little hope for them.

This legislation posits a sort of psychological damage as 'inherent' to the cloning process; this is unreasonable and unfounded. Indeed, despite its final mandate, the legislation appears predicated on the denial of individuality and self-determination by clones. For these reasons, the Imperium is opposed."
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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7910
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Tue May 21, 2019 11:27 pm

“What is ‘exactly similar’ supposed to mean in clause 1? Given that ‘similar’ means ‘not the same as’, are you merely emphasising this concept? Are you requiring a higher degree of similarity? This could all be made clear.”
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

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Vlender Tusdeta
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Apr 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Vlender Tusdeta » Thu May 23, 2019 12:39 am

Vlender Tusdeta, in its representative role of the Tusdetan nations and closest allies thereof, and despite its domestic lack of reproductive cloning technologies, is in a position wherein it must oppose the institution of cloning restrictions on behalf of its allies. Vlender has received complaints from within Tusdeta about this issue, and therefore it should perhaps be noted that the society of Vlender Tusdeta is considered to represent... the second least scientifically advanced nation in Tusdeta. This is a status of which we are not proud, which we feel that this issue's passage in the World Assembly would tend to reinforce.

In arguing against this proposal, we wish first to address the concern regarding the worth and dignity of individuals, and the effects created upon said worth via cloning. Personhood being rooted in sapience and continuity, not within genomes (else we would grant voting rights to viruses and seek to emulate their political biases for fairer representation), it must be noted that each individual is their own person with their own identity in an almost tautological sense. This argument regarding some degrading lack of distinct individualism could be used against any individual who is unduly similar to any of their parents. The presumption of degradation advanced thereby is readily recognized as being itself degrading when the case is given of a "naturally"-reproduced individual who is regarded as degraded if they should resemble their parents, and should not be so hard to recognize as operating in the case of cloning as well. The intrinsic worth of people is excellently regarded in the very concept of... sapient rights, whereas the pragmatic dignity of a person is predominantly determined by factors other than whether or not they are cloned.

Furthermore, we believe that the concern regarding direct eugenic control is, itself... abominable. Are we to willfully preserve suffering in this world when we could rectify it? By experimenting over variations in individual- and collective-interacting genomic data, we seek to produce more prosperous and long-lived individuals within societies of advancing quality. By advancing our medical knowledge fearlessly, we seek breakthrough advances in the treatment of ailments both life-long and even within the course of lives. For gene therapies are possible, and very often people may be rehabilitated. This goes again to the non-disruption of individual worth created by cloning, for the nations of the Southish-Tusdetan alliance are not merely experimenting in a generational sense, we are also seeking to magnify the worth of individuals in their own lives. This is a natural extension of cloning technology.

That experimentation proceeds in an intensive and varied fashion is also a very potent point against the claim that genetic diversity will be somehow reduced. A loss of genetic diversity resultant from cloning would injure our pharmaceutical research just as or even more surely than the loss of biodiversity in rainforests injures pharmaceutical research, for these are alike in being genetic diversity. The very basis of genetic manipulation technologies requires establishing as nearly as possible complete archives of all genetic variations discovered, extending not only within species but even across species unto the very stuff of life, particularly insofar as those archives can be made available to medical researchers. This last matter of making data available to researchers is a distinction comparatively poorly served by the more arguably degrading processes of genetically modified law enforcement procedures aka "DNA Harvesting", which policy is not operating in Tusdeta precisely to eliminate a corruption factor seriously harmful to the pragmatic dignity of cloned individuals.

If we are to ban anything to improve the dignity granted to cloned individuals, Vlender Tusdeta would request this assembly to seriously consider reinforcing restrictions against compulsory DNA Harvesting, but not cloning itself. Collecting genetic data from people with their consent is a more arduous process, but a worthy one, that brings more people into contact with scientific endeavors. This last point gets to one final issue we have with the originally drafted document. It is not intrinsic that nations which permit cloning will be highly inegalitarian ones. The genetic variations most likely to be reduced in scale are ones that drive people deep into the suffering fringes of society; what will be reduced are madnesses and ailments. To preserve these variations and maximize the breadth of our nations' scientific and cultural achievements, we may even in an ongoing way produce dubious individuals and groups where conditions appear potentially unusually optimal for them. Is the reproduction of unexpected individuals due to excellent conditions not analogous to what in evolutionary time does itself preserve unexpected individuals? We can control this process. By combining data from many individuals without tracking them as individuals, we can achieve a diversity of genetic information not otherwise achievable, while simultaneously expressing genes in scientifically observable ratios that can be tuned for the achievement of greater prosperity even upon the edge cases.

Tusdetan research has not thus far perfected the art of producing clone-societies that are also happy, but Vlender is authorized to say on behalf of its allies, "We are working on it." Our best candidate so far is the disconcertingly militant, religious, and fish-obsessed culture of Glll Clewnk, who we are not presently confident would be able to sustain vat technology unsupported, but we are doing our best to guide them and maintain them in comfort as we study their society for information regarding the specific operation of their cultural and genetic adaptations.
This is the WA-delegate nation for the Tusdetan flight of nations. We're sci-fi themed and apply limited presumptions of what kind (or mix) of species is actually operating in each nation; we took our nation-lifting helicopters to the stars. The full Tusdeta alt list (presently as of 5/23/2019 equivalent to the Tusdeta nation list) can be found here among the dispatches of Mutaorat Tusdeta.

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Kardashev III Civilization
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 62
Founded: Apr 07, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kardashev III Civilization » Thu May 23, 2019 9:07 pm

An imposing obelisk of blinking lights and sleek metal glides into the drafting hall. "The majority of biological gardening fleets propagating throughout the galaxy rely on clone technology to quickly increase the population of new settlements to acceptable levels. This alone would concern the Interworld enough to oppose this. Far more concerning, however, is the apparent ban on virtual cloning, especially in the copying of one mind to a second piece of hardware. These options have been essential in preserving the knowledge and experience of individuals whose authentic form cannot be sustained. To prohibit this practice would be to banish millions to nothingness for no reason.

"Another issue seems likely, although translation may not be accurate. Would this proposal prohibit the cloning of biological structures for sapient beings to inhabit? This is, again, a fairly common practice, especially among explorers, diplomats, and entertainers. Certainly the installation of a separate mind into a cloned body is not something to be prohibited?"

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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7910
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Thu May 23, 2019 11:40 pm

Kardashev III Civilization wrote:An imposing obelisk of blinking lights and sleek metal glides into the drafting hall. "The majority of biological gardening fleets propagating throughout the galaxy rely on clone technology to quickly increase the population of new settlements to acceptable levels. This alone would concern the Interworld enough to oppose this. Far more concerning, however, is the apparent ban on virtual cloning, especially in the copying of one mind to a second piece of hardware. These options have been essential in preserving the knowledge and experience of individuals whose authentic form cannot be sustained. To prohibit this practice would be to banish millions to nothingness for no reason.

"Another issue seems likely, although translation may not be accurate. Would this proposal prohibit the cloning of biological structures for sapient beings to inhabit? This is, again, a fairly common practice, especially among explorers, diplomats, and entertainers. Certainly the installation of a separate mind into a cloned body is not something to be prohibited?"

(OOC: On a similar note, lots of species in FT could rely on artificial cloning to survive and develop. For example the Sontarans from Doctor Who. I understand that not every proposal has to take higher technology into account, but given that cloning of sapient species doesn’t actually exist on Earth and is a future-tech technology in itself, it is reasonable to complain about this messing up FT species reproductions.)
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

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Maowi
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1241
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Maowi » Sat May 25, 2019 7:23 am

'Maowi opposes this legislation, for reasons pretty much covered already by other ambassadors - namely, the assumption, in my opinion unreasonable, that being a sapient clone inherently leads to psychological problems; the inconsistency between said assumption, which hinges on the exact sameness between the "parent" individual and the clone, and the complaint about the eugenic nature of reproductive cloning; and the problems this may cause for certain nations in the World Assembly which rely on reproductive cloning for the continued existence of the sapient species which inhabit them.'
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The Candy Of Bottles
Diplomat
 
Posts: 634
Founded: Jan 01, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Candy Of Bottles » Sat May 25, 2019 4:17 pm

Might as well throw the whole nature/nurture and epigenetics issues in to the pile of issues with this.
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Vlender Tusdeta
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Apr 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Vlender Tusdeta » Wed May 29, 2019 4:50 am

The Candy Of Bottles wrote:Might as well throw the whole nature/nurture and epigenetics issues in to the pile of issues with this.

That is an interesting point. Cloning research does necessitate epigenetic research also, indeed. Embracing cloning could accelerate integration of previously disadvantaged populations by providing remedies for (or at least fueling research into) epigenetic injuries suffered over generations.
This is the WA-delegate nation for the Tusdetan flight of nations. We're sci-fi themed and apply limited presumptions of what kind (or mix) of species is actually operating in each nation; we took our nation-lifting helicopters to the stars. The full Tusdeta alt list (presently as of 5/23/2019 equivalent to the Tusdeta nation list) can be found here among the dispatches of Mutaorat Tusdeta.

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Republica JIM
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: Oct 28, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Republica JIM » Wed May 29, 2019 9:32 am

United Massachusetts wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Wait, what? People have a right to not having genetics imposed upon them? If that's the case, then sexual reproduction should be prohibited because before someone is born, they cannot consent into being born. Is this some sort of strange anti-natalism argumentation? Don't normally see that stuff outside of policy debate...

The right not to have one's own genetics entirely and forcefully placed on another, at the cost of depriving them their individuality.

I think the same

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