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[DEFEATED] Sensible limits on Industry Act

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Islands of unity
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

[DEFEATED] Sensible limits on Industry Act

Postby Islands of unity » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:56 pm

Legal Regulation-Strong

An act to allow Involuntary Corporate Dissolution

Recognizing that for-profit corporations are likely to prioritize profits and the output of goods over the health, safety, and well-being of people;

Acknowledging that this prioritization often leads to abuses by for-profit corporations of people, nature, governments, and laws;

Asserting that capitalism works best when corporations act in a legal and ethical manner;

Accepting that too often governments in the WA are unable to stop corporations from acting in an unethical or criminal manner;

Acknowledging that serious crimes can be committed by corporate entities as well as individuals within such corporations.

Observing that large fines can be ineffective at stopping certain serious types of corporate crime.

Involuntary Corporate Dissolution is defined as the State sanctioned dissolution of any corporate body having found said corporation to be in serious breach of the statutory legislative, criminal and/or regulatory standards through any appropriate tribunal.

Hoping to end corporate abuses of power;

The World Assembly hereby allows and affirms every WA nation's right to dissolve corporations acting criminally within their territory by:

(a) Seizing control of the corporation's property and holdings and

(b) Dismissing every employee and

(c) Selling the corporations assets to competing corporations and

(d) Using profit from the liquidation to reimburse the shareholders


Sensible Limits on Industry
Category: Regulation
Area of Effect: Safety

Description: The World Assembly,

Recognizing that privately-owned businesses might prioritize profits above the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment,

Recognizing also that state-owned businesses, especially ones whose managers face potential punishment if they fail to meet quotas, might likewise prioritize output of goods and services above the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment,

and

Believing that the health, safety, and well-being of people and of the environment should receive reasonable protection;

Hereby,
1). Authorizes member nations to Involuntarily Dissolve any privately-owned business operations within their territories if those operations unreasonably impinge on the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment;

2). Allows member nations to seize the assets of any privately-owned business that unreasonably impinges on the health, safety, and well-being of the people or of the environment provided that those assets be sold in order to reimburse the shareholders and employees of the Dissolved company;

3). Requires that member nations allow their state-owned industries to act only in ways that do not impinge unreasonably on the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment, and must take these needs properly into consideration when setting any targets for those industries;

4). Requires each member nation to establish a set of standards for these matters, subject to any restrictions set by earlier GA resolutions that are still in force, that applies equally to all businesses and industries operating in a given field of activity within that nation regardless of its ownership.
Last edited by Wrapper on Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:12 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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Islands of unity
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Islands of unity » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:58 pm

OOC: This is my first time submitting General Assembly Legislation, so I'm not sure if this fits the rubric or not, so id be very grateful if y'all could help me fix the bill and make it better. Thank you

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:51 am

OOC: Welcome to the GA forum! :)

It's great to see a newbie drafter actually posting the draft here rather than submitting it rightaway.

I'll let the people more versed in corporate law to let you know how feasible your suggestion is, but I'm fairly certain that to do any of that, you'd need to have gone through a proper and fair trial. There should even be an existing resolution that deals with seizing of assets, unless my memory's acting up again, have you looked through the existing resolutions?

Also, I suggest putting the Category and Strength or Area of Effect (some categories have strengths, some have areas of effect) at the start of the proposal post, because some questions about proposal legality (that means, whether it obeys the proposal rules) depend on the Category and Strength/AoE chosen.

Islands of unity wrote:An act to allow Involuntary Corporate Dissolution

Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;

Acknowledging that this prioritization often leads to abuses by corporations of people, nature, governments, and laws;

Admitting that capitalism works best when corporations act in a legal and ethical manner;

Accepting that too often governments in the WA are unable to stop corporations from acting in an unethical or crimminal manner;

Acknowledging that serious crimes can be committed by corporate entities as well as individuals within such corporations.

Holding that large fines can be ineffective at stoping certain serious types of corporate crime.

Involuntary Corporate Dissolution is defined as the State sanctioned dissolution of any corporate body having found said corporation to be in serious breach of the statutory legislative, criminal and/or regulatory standards though any appropriate tribunal.

Hoping to end corporate abuses of power;

The World Assembly hereby allows and affirms every WA nation's right to dissolve corporations acting unethically or criminally within their territory by:

(a) Seizing control of the corporations property and holdings and

(b) Dissmissing every employee and

(c) Selling the corporations assests to competing corporations and

(d) Using profit from the liquidation to reimburse the share holders
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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:35 am

OOC: I'm not a GAer, so I can't say much on the substance of it. A few things I noticed, though:

Islands of unity wrote:Admitting that capitalism works best when corporations act in a legal and ethical manner;


Wouldn't "Asserting" be a better preambulatory phrase?

Islands of unity wrote:Accepting that too often governments in the WA are unable to stop corporations from acting in an unethical or crimminal manner;


criminal*

Islands of unity wrote:Holding that large fines can be ineffective at stoping certain serious types of corporate crime.


I'm not sure what you mean by "Holding". A better phrase may be "Realizing" or "Observing".

Islands of unity wrote:(b) Dissmissing every employee and


Dismissing*

Islands of unity wrote:(c) Selling the corporations assests to competing corporations and


assets*
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Islands of unity
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Postby Islands of unity » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:41 am

Fixed the errors pointed out by roavin

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Saranidia
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Saranidia » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:45 am

Saranidia supports this.

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:11 am

Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;

OOC
Regular grumble returns: 'corporations' =/= big business, corporations = any bodies that have been legally 'incorporated. They can also be local governments (e.g. "the Mayor and Corporation of the City of London"), QUANGOs (e.g. the BBC), or even charities, among other things... whilst you can also have large business that are still owned by individual people or families and that therefore haven't been incorporated.

Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;
So how about
"Recognizing that state-owned businesses whose managers face serious official displeasure if they fail to meet [possibly unrealistic] production targets are likely to prioritise output of goods over the health, safety, and well-being of people;"?
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New Excalibus
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Postby New Excalibus » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:13 am

I support this.
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Islands of unity
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Islands of unity » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:25 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;

OOC
Regular grumble returns: 'corporations' =/= big business, corporations = any bodies that have been legally 'incorporated. They can also be local governments (e.g. "the Mayor and Corporation of the City of London"), QUANGOs (e.g. the BBC), or even charities, among other things... whilst you can also have large business that are still owned by individual people or families and that therefore haven't been incorporated.

Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;
So how about
"Recognizing that state-owned businesses whose managers face serious official displeasure if they fail to meet [possibly unrealistic] production targets are likely to prioritize output of goods over the health, safety, and well-being of people;"?


OOC: The way I worded the bill does allow for the interpretation that its aimed at big businesses, but I do think there is the possibility that other such corporations like cities or charities should apply to this law too, as they can also violate ethics and act in a criminal way.

I have some issues with the suggestion you made, particularly the "state-owned" part-Id use the term chartered so that more potentially unethical or criminal corporations could be subject to dissolution. (unless i'm misinterpreting what you meant) But overall I do like the spirit of the suggestion, as it clears up the wording. Is it ok if I replace the state-owned wording with "state-chartered or owned" and add it to the bill?
Last edited by Islands of unity on Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:36 am

"So, this legalizes government theft? For actions that are not even illegal? Opposed."

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Islands of unity
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Postby Islands of unity » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:42 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"So, this legalizes government theft? For actions that are not even illegal? Opposed."


(Does this mean that the law is legal? And do the quotes imply being in character or is it something else?)

"The ethical commitments were an oversite from a previous version of the bill, now only corporations who have committed crimes can be dissolved. I'm sure that you can agree that capitalism works best when the laws guiding it are not breached"
Last edited by Islands of unity on Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:54 am

Islands of unity wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"So, this legalizes government theft? For actions that are not even illegal? Opposed."


(Does this mean that the law is legal? And do the quotes imply being in character or is it something else?)

(OOC: The quotes mean beings IC, or in-character. Separatist peoples was asking if your proposal legalises governmental theft for legal actions, which it currently does as your proposal allows a government to seize assets for unethical actions.)
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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:32 pm

Islands of unity wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:
Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;

OOC
Regular grumble returns: 'corporations' =/= big business, corporations = any bodies that have been legally 'incorporated. They can also be local governments (e.g. "the Mayor and Corporation of the City of London"), QUANGOs (e.g. the BBC), or even charities, among other things... whilst you can also have large business that are still owned by individual people or families and that therefore haven't been incorporated.

Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;
So how about
"Recognizing that state-owned businesses whose managers face serious official displeasure if they fail to meet [possibly unrealistic] production targets are likely to prioritize output of goods over the health, safety, and well-being of people;"?


OOC: The way I worded the bill does allow for the interpretation that its aimed at big businesses, but I do think there is the possibility that other such corporations like cities or charities should apply to this law too, as they can also violate ethics and act in a criminal way.

I have some issues with the suggestion you made, particularly the "state-owned" part-Id use the term chartered so that more potentially unethical or criminal corporations could be subject to dissolution. (unless i'm misinterpreting what you meant) But overall I do like the spirit of the suggestion, as it clears up the wording. Is it ok if I replace the state-owned wording with "state-chartered or owned" and add it to the bill?


What is being referred to are wholly State owned companies, most generally in socialist, or most especially, communist nations. (OOC: think former Soviet Union and Soviet bloc countries where the government owned and operated everything) If you believe only “capitalist” business can be unethical or commit crimes then you are taking gullible and naive to entirely new levels.

This is also disturbing in that it appears to endorse “collective responsibility”, Dismiss all employees. Great plan. Because none of them were not acting illegally, none of them have families, no other businesses depend on the employees making purchases at their shops. And certainly, no government would *ever* abuse such wide reaching powers.

You want to create ghost towns? Because this is a great first step in doing so.
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Islands of unity
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Postby Islands of unity » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:49 pm

What is being referred to are wholly State-owned companies, most generally in socialist, or most especially, communist nations. (OOC: think former Soviet Union and Soviet bloc countries where the government owned and operated everything) If you believe only “capitalist” business can be unethical or commit crimes then you are taking gullible and naive to entirely new levels.

This is also disturbing in that it appears to endorse “collective responsibility”, Dismiss all employees. Great plan. Because none of them were not acting illegally, none of them have families, no other businesses depend on the employees making purchases at their shops. And certainly, no government would *ever* abuse such wide-reaching powers.

You want to create ghost towns? Because this is a great first step in doing so.


"Socialist or communist nations would already have control over the corporations and would be likely to be able to dissolve them at will than capitalist nations without this bill. Also, allowing competing companies to gain control over the assets of the dissolved corporation, and reimbursing the shareholders will minimize the damage done to the economy by dissolving a large corporation. (ooc: I am considering adding a clause to require employees to be dismissed with extra funds after the shareholder reimbursement, would this help your concerns with the bill?) I do not want ghost towns, and I fully believe that by having equitable punishments for corporations who commit crimes and harm people will allow for the towns you'd suspect to be too reliant on one company to flourish and grow"

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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:55 pm

“I’m questioning whether this actually does anything. This seems to recognise a right that member nations already have, as no WA law has banned it. What do you want to achieve with this proposal that hasn’t already been done?”
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However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:27 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;

OOC
Regular grumble returns: 'corporations' =/= big business, corporations = any bodies that have been legally 'incorporated. They can also be local governments (e.g. "the Mayor and Corporation of the City of London"), QUANGOs (e.g. the BBC), or even charities, among other things... whilst you can also have large business that are still owned by individual people or families and that therefore haven't been incorporated.

Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;
So how about
"Recognizing that state-owned businesses whose managers face serious official displeasure if they fail to meet [possibly unrealistic] production targets are likely to prioritise output of goods over the health, safety, and well-being of people;"?


OOC: There's also the admittedly non-standard, but still valid, interpretation of "corporate body" to mean "corporeal body" - meaning if a person flouts (say) banking regulations, that person may be disintegrated into their component organs, which will then be sold or donated to those awaiting transplants. While that interpretation would be deprecated in favor of one that didn't contradict existing laws, it's the one I find most amusing (and also conducive to future good conduct among employees and owners of major firms). :lol2:
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:48 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: There's also the admittedly non-standard, but still valid, interpretation of "corporate body" to mean "corporeal body" - meaning if a person flouts (say) banking regulations, that person may be disintegrated into their component organs, which will then be sold or donated to those awaiting transplants. :lol2:

OOC: I like this interpretation. :lol:
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Liberimery
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Postby Liberimery » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:52 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:
Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;

OOC
Regular grumble returns: 'corporations' =/= big business, corporations = any bodies that have been legally 'incorporated. They can also be local governments (e.g. "the Mayor and Corporation of the City of London"), QUANGOs (e.g. the BBC), or even charities, among other things... whilst you can also have large business that are still owned by individual people or families and that therefore haven't been incorporated.

Recognizing that corporations are likely to prioritize profits over the health, safety, and well-being of people;
So how about
"Recognizing that state-owned businesses whose managers face serious official displeasure if they fail to meet [possibly unrealistic] production targets are likely to prioritise output of goods over the health, safety, and well-being of people;"?


OOC: There's also the admittedly non-standard, but still valid, interpretation of "corporate body" to mean "corporeal body" - meaning if a person flouts (say) banking regulations, that person may be disintegrated into their component organs, which will then be sold or donated to those awaiting transplants. While that interpretation would be deprecated in favor of one that didn't contradict existing laws, it's the one I find most amusing (and also conducive to future good conduct among employees and owners of major firms). :lol2:



OOC: Dissolving individuals who break the law? This is starting to sound less like an anti-big business proposal and more like an episode of Breaking Bad. Also, under that read, contradiction of current Capital Punishment resolutions.

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:57 pm

Liberimery wrote:OOC: Dissolving individuals who break the law? This is starting to sound less like an anti-big business proposal and more like an episode of Breaking Bad.

OOC: That episode, btw, was pure bull. That acid won't dissolve a body, especially not in that amount, temperature and time. :P
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Postby Grays Harbor » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:06 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Liberimery wrote:OOC: Dissolving individuals who break the law? This is starting to sound less like an anti-big business proposal and more like an episode of Breaking Bad.

OOC: That episode, btw, was pure bull. That acid won't dissolve a body, especially not in that amount, temperature and time. :P

OOC: This is true. It was established long ago that falling into a vat of acid turns your skin white, your hair green, and puts a permanent grin on your face. Maniacal laughter is extra.
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Liberimery
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Postby Liberimery » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:21 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Liberimery wrote:OOC: Dissolving individuals who break the law? This is starting to sound less like an anti-big business proposal and more like an episode of Breaking Bad.

OOC: That episode, btw, was pure bull. That acid won't dissolve a body, especially not in that amount, temperature and time. :P


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Lord Dominator
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:36 pm

Grays Harbor wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: That episode, btw, was pure bull. That acid won't dissolve a body, especially not in that amount, temperature and time. :P

OOC: This is true. It was established long ago that falling into a vat of acid turns your skin white, your hair green, and puts a permanent grin on your face. Maniacal laughter is extra.

OOC: Or otherwise turns you into all manner of super-powered individual
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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:26 am

OOC

Islands of unity wrote:
What is being referred to are wholly State-owned companies, most generally in socialist, or most especially, communist nations. (OOC: think former Soviet Union and Soviet bloc countries where the government owned and operated everything) If you believe only “capitalist” business can be unethical or commit crimes then you are taking gullible and naive to entirely new levels.

"Socialist or communist nations would already have control over the corporations and would be likely to be able to dissolve them at will than capitalist nations without this bill."

And the government that set those quotas in the first place is going to shut-down the operation because its manager tried to meet the quotas? Do you really think so? I don’t.

Kenmoria wrote:
Islands of unity wrote:(Does this mean that the law is legal? And do the quotes imply being in character or is it something else?)

(OOC: The quotes mean beings IC, or in-character. Separatist peoples was asking if your proposal legalises governmental theft for legal actions, which it currently does as your proposal allows a government to seize assets for unethical actions.)

No, I think that what SP is pointing out is a detail that I should also have caught_
As there’s no international legislation currently banning governments from shutting down businesses under those conditions, governments are already capable of doing so anyway: Therefore, all that your proposal does is (a) re-state the status quo, and (b) block any future proposals which would take away that right. You need to add some further mandate (or, at least, an “Urges” clause) that would apply in the present in order to save this from illegality for being nothing but a blocker.

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: There's also the admittedly non-standard, but still valid, interpretation of "corporate body" to mean "corporeal body" - meaning if a person flouts (say) banking regulations, that person may be disintegrated into their component organs, which will then be sold or donated to those awaiting transplants. While that interpretation would be deprecated in favor of one that didn't contradict existing laws, it's the one I find most amusing (and also conducive to future good conduct among employees and owners of major firms). :lol2:

RL English law actually recognizes the concept of the 'corporation sole', which is a corporation that consists of one person at a time but with property & contracts passing to that person's successor in whatever official position is involved (e.g. bishop of a specific diocese) rather than to the previous holder's personal heirs.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Liberimery
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Postby Liberimery » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:32 am

Lord Dominator wrote:
Grays Harbor wrote:OOC: This is true. It was established long ago that falling into a vat of acid turns your skin white, your hair green, and puts a permanent grin on your face. Maniacal laughter is extra.

OOC: Or otherwise turns you into all manner of super-powered individual



OOC: As someone who subscribes to the theory that The Joker is aware of his status as a fictional character and that's why he does all of his crazy things: Because it entertains his reader and he's not hurting "real" people I have to ask: Canot two things be true at once?

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:43 am

OOC
Also, there's no such category as 'Legal Regulation - Strong'. under current rules. 'Regulation' has only as areas of effect, not strengths, and its 'Legal' AoE refers specifically to regulating the practice of Law as an industry.

Here’s a suggested re-draft.
Sensible Limits on Industry
Category:
Regulation
Area of Effect: Safety

Description: The World Assembly,

Recognizing that privately-owned businesses might prioritize profits above the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment,
Recognizing also that state-owned businesses, especially ones whose managers face potential punishment if they fail to meet quotas, might likewise prioritize output of goods and services above the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment,
and
Believing that the health, safety, and well-being of people and of the environment should receive reasonable protection;

Hereby,
1). Authorizes member nations to shut-down any privately-owned business operations within their territories if those operations unreasonably impinge on the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment;
2). Requires that member nations allow their state-owned industries to act only in ways that do not impinge unreasonably on the health, safety, and well-being of people or of the environment, and must take these needs properly into consideration when setting any targets for those industries;
3). Requires each member nation to establish a set of standards for these matters, subject to any restrictions set by earlier GA resolutions that are still force, that applies equally to all businesses and industries operating in a given field of activity within that nation regardless of its ownership.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934.

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