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[DRAFT] Repeal and Update : “Protecting Free Expression” +

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Quantipapa
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[DRAFT] Repeal and Update : “Protecting Free Expression” +

Postby Quantipapa » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:20 am

This is the updated proposal as of [background=][/background]6/9/2018. I am bringing Jebusland's comments and my comments over here too.
This is the updated proposal 24/9/2018. Included here is the draft replacement resolution, which basically is an update of GAR#436 to more aggressively protect free expression.
This is the updated proposal 24/9/2018. Removed draft replacement. Focusing on the repeal now.
---
Acknowledging that GAR#436 - Protecting Free Expression" is a progressive resolution that works towards ensuring the freedom of expressions of all peoples,

Commending its effectiveness in limiting certain types of speech, especially in areas relating to minors,

It is worth noting that the resolution is inadequate in protecting people’s right to freedom of expression.

Therefore, a repeal is proposed in order for a more comprehensive resolution to be passed at a later time.

Specific objections to this resolution:

1)Under section 1, which deals with definitions:

It is stated that:

"free expression" as the ability to outwardly demonstrate, articulate, or otherwise express a political, cultural, social, moral, religious, ideological or other belief without fear of state punishment or reprisal,”

This is insufficient, as the fear should not be limited to fear of the state, but fear of hate crimes and discrimination – privately or publicly, by the general public. For reference, a hate crime is any criminal action that takes place due to racial, religious, or ideological prejudice and bias toward any particular individual or group. While hate-crime in itself falls under a separate domain, its expression is closely related to free-speech. Often, hate-crimes are a result of the inability of one to intellectually and emotionally process another’s choice to express his or her views freely. As such, the fear is real – it goes beyond the fear of the state. This repeal will make way for tougher WA resolutions that require states to enact laws criminalizing hate-speech

2) Under section 2, which deals with “reasonable restrictions”

It is stated that:
“an incitement to violence or widespread lawlessness”

While this is a legitimate concern, has been demonstrated many times over in many nations as an excuse exercised by the state to silence political opposition, rather than protecting the general public. More importantly, this criterion generally absolves the state – in which if the state expresses something that incites violence and lawlessness, this resolution is not invoked against them.
It is argued that the WA cannot control how nation states choose to oppress or not oppress their people. If that is so, this statement reeks of hypocrisy and should not even be there. A replacement resolution will more adequately protect the freedom of expression more constructively.

3) This resolution does not adequately address discrimination against any and all individuals and groups, regardless of ideological, political, and personal preferences. People should not need to feel silenced from having an opinion that is different from the majority. A resolution that more strongly allows equal expression by various groups, and protects all parties – whether majority or minority, popular or unpopular, from discrimination, hate speech, ex-communication, and/or any form of punishment outside the rule of law.
4) While this current resolution has the right motivation and ideas as its foundation, it is insufficient in its scope of protection.
Last edited by Quantipapa on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:37 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The Sheika
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Postby The Sheika » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:25 am

Wait, you already submitted your proposal? You might have benefited from posting a draft here and taking feedback from other members. That being said, do you have specific examples for the claim that you make in your proposal that garner support? At this point in time, no support.
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Postby Jebslund » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:31 am

Quantipapa wrote:General Assembly Resolution #436 “Protecting Free Expression” (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

This proposal, while comprehensive, does not adequately protect the right of all political expressions, and as such, must go.

------

After this is gone, we can pass specific resolutions that cover specific topics, and will be much more comprehensive. Please support it. It's not a long write-up because it's self explanatory. Get rid of this, put up new and better stuff.

[OOC: Repeals must address the arguments presented in the resolution they seek to repeal. It's not enough to simply say it's inadequate. You actually *do* need to be specific and do a long write-up. It's not really self-explanatory, and, even if it was, the rules as written state as much. You also might benefit from looking through past repeals in order to get a feel for how they are supposed to be written, as this is more of a blog than a resolution as written.]
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Postby Linux and the X » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:09 am

Quantipapa wrote:General Assembly Resolution #436 “Protecting Free Expression” (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

This proposal, while comprehensive, does not adequately protect the right of all political expressions, and as such, must go.

------

After this is gone, we can pass specific resolutions that cover specific topics, and will be much more comprehensive. Please support it. It's not a long write-up because it's self explanatory. Get rid of this, put up new and better stuff.

In what ways is it insufficient? We would suggest that you withdraw your currently-submitted draft for further work.
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:05 pm

Quantipapa wrote:General Assembly Resolution #436 “Protecting Free Expression” (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

This proposal, while comprehensive, does not adequately protect the right of all political expressions, and as such, must go.

------

After this is gone, we can pass specific resolutions that cover specific topics, and will be much more comprehensive. Please support it. It's not a long write-up because it's self explanatory. Get rid of this, put up new and better stuff.

OOC: *SIGH* Submitted without a draft? I mean, it has been deemed legal, but legal =/= good...
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Postby Liberimery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:33 pm

I suggest you explain what was missing from the current resolution. Otherwise I will oppose. The resolution as is is sufficient and is way less restrictive than other Resolutions that were in draft.

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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:40 am

Against u didn't fully explain why it needed repeal.

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Shayla
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Postby Shayla » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:44 am

Against not enough sufficient explanation.
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Postby -Manchukuo » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:47 am

against. Why the hell?
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Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:22 pm

Repeal: “Protecting Free Expression”

A resolution to repeal previously passed legislation.

Category: Repeal

Resolution: GA#436

Proposed by: Quantipapa

General Assembly Resolution #436 “Protecting Free Expression” (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

This proposal, while comprehensive, does not adequately protect the right of all political expressions, and as such, must go.



I see a whole lot of nothing there. It reads like “I don’t like it, so repeal it.”
Last edited by Grays Harbor on Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jebslund » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:22 pm

Grays Harbor wrote:
Repeal: “Protecting Free Expression”

A resolution to repeal previously passed legislation.

Category: Repeal

Resolution: GA#436

Proposed by: Quantipapa

General Assembly Resolution #436 “Protecting Free Expression” (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

This proposal, while comprehensive, does not adequately protect the right of all political expressions, and as such, must go.



I see a whole lot of nothing there. It reads like “I don’t like it, so repeal it.”

[OOC: That's about the size of it. Honestly, I'm debating whether or not to file a challenge. I'm surprised only one member of GENSEC marked it illegal.]
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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:05 pm

It's unlikely to reach for a vote. He hasn't even campaigned.
Last edited by Cosmopolitan borovan on Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:48 pm

OOC: "This resolution fails to fulfill a major goal that it purports to achieve" has always been a perfectly legal (and the single most effective, AFAICT) argument for repeal. I'm surprised anyone marked it illegal. Pithy repeals are not against the rules as long as they actually say something coherent about their targets, which this does.
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Quantipapa
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Postby Quantipapa » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:56 am

I will submit a proper repeal proposal soon. Thank you all for feedback.

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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:50 am

Quantipapa wrote:I will submit a proper repeal proposal soon. Thank you all for feedback.

This is the resolution
viewtopic.php?p=34527006#p34527006
You can point out the couple arguments you have against some clauses like pornography or the civilian and military health

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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:53 am

Quantipapa wrote:I will submit a proper repeal proposal soon. Thank you all for feedback.

OOC: ...not based on this draft I hope...?
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Postby Kenmoria » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:03 am

(OOC: Judging by the proposal queue, and the fact that I strongly doubt this proposal would be discarded by Gensec, this hasn’t been submitted. What is the proposal doing currently?)
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Postby Liberimery » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:00 pm

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Judging by the proposal queue, and the fact that I strongly doubt this proposal would be discarded by Gensec, this hasn’t been submitted. What is the proposal doing currently?)


OOC: It was. It failed to meet Quorum.

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Postby Grenartia » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:05 pm

Liberimery wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Judging by the proposal queue, and the fact that I strongly doubt this proposal would be discarded by Gensec, this hasn’t been submitted. What is the proposal doing currently?)


OOC: It was. It failed to meet Quorum.


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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:26 pm

Quantipapa wrote:I will submit a proper repeal proposal soon. Thank you all for feedback.

Once you make a good draft you have to campaign. Using stamp telegrams is easy and u will send it to many delegates

Then make a draft of how you will forward your campaign statement. So like,

Salutations delegate %nation%,

I am bringing up an important proposal which requires your attention. It is about the legalization of gay marriage. GA 500 will ensure protection of gay rights and will ensure legal and social benefits. While charter of civil rights protects from discrimination this will stop loopholes from religious nations who believe gay marriage ends up conflicting with their beliefs.

In this proposal it will outline future WA legislation and addresses how government, civil, business, and the public is impacted. As such if you could help approve it here GA 500 Legalize gay marriage you will make me very happy, and grateful.

Thank you for the time, %nation%


Then it should reach quorom unless someone counter campaign in which you react with yet another campaign

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Quantipapa
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Postby Quantipapa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:32 am

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:
Quantipapa wrote:I will submit a proper repeal proposal soon. Thank you all for feedback.

Once you make a good draft you have to campaign. Using stamp telegrams is easy and u will send it to many delegates

Then make a draft of how you will forward your campaign statement. So like,

Salutations delegate %nation%,

I am bringing up an important proposal which requires your attention. It is about the legalization of gay marriage. GA 500 will ensure protection of gay rights and will ensure legal and social benefits. While charter of civil rights protects from discrimination this will stop loopholes from religious nations who believe gay marriage ends up conflicting with their beliefs.

In this proposal it will outline future WA legislation and addresses how government, civil, business, and the public is impacted. As such if you could help approve it here GA 500 Legalize gay marriage you will make me very happy, and grateful.

Thank you for the time, %nation%


Then it should reach quorom unless someone counter campaign in which you react with yet another campaign


Thank you for your guidance.

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Quantipapa
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Postby Quantipapa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:06 am

Dear Admin,

I humbly seek your help to lock this post as a proper draft as been posted in the forums. Apologies if this is not the right method.

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Postby Jebslund » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:11 am

Quantipapa wrote:Dear Admin,

I humbly seek your help to lock this post as a proper draft as been posted in the forums. Apologies if this is not the right method.

You should have put the current draft under a spoiler (
Code: Select all
[spoiler][previous draft goes here][/spoiler]
) and changed the [SUBMITTED] to [DRAFT], but...

This is the thread you're looking for to make lock requests.
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Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

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Quantipapa
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Postby Quantipapa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:20 am

Jebslund wrote:
Quantipapa wrote:Dear Admin,

I humbly seek your help to lock this post as a proper draft as been posted in the forums. Apologies if this is not the right method.

You should have put the current draft under a spoiler (
Code: Select all
[spoiler][previous draft goes here][/spoiler]
) and changed the [SUBMITTED] to [DRAFT], but...

This is the thread you're looking for to make lock requests.


I've done the request on the thread. Sorry I should have edited this instead but am too noob for this. Thanks for your guidance.

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Quantipapa
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Copied from the other thread

Postby Quantipapa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:42 am

I thank the honorable Jebslund for the corrections. Here are my thoughts.

Jebslund wrote:
Notes
Corrections

Quantipapa wrote:
Acknowledging that GAR#436 - Protecting Free Expression" is a progressive resolution that works towards ensuring the freedom of expressions of all peoples,

Commending its effectiveness in limiting certain types of speech, especially in areas relating to minors,

It is worth noting that the resolution is inadequate in protecting people’s right to freedom of expression.

Therefore, a repeal is proposed in order for a more comprehensive resolution to be passed at a later time.

Specific objections to this resolution:

1)Under section 1, which deals with definitions:

It is stated that:

"free expression" as the ability to outwardly demonstrate, articulate, or otherwise express a political, cultural, social, moral, religious, ideological or other belief without fear of state punishment or reprisal,”

This is insufficient, as the fear should not be limited to fear of the state, but fear of hate crimes and discrimination – privately or publicly, by the general public. Except that fear of the state is the only one that can be legislated against. Freedom of expression is not the same as freedom from consequences. You may, for example, be free to be as racist or sexist as you want, but I am also free to call you what you would be being, a bigot, as well. The purpose of laws protecting freedom of expression is to prevent the state from silencing views it doesn't like, not to protect your feelings.

While I understand your view, I am not actually asking for the law to protect my feelings, but to criminalize other institutions (especially very influential ones) apart from the "state". The key thing I am attempting to do is to expand the scope of this resolution (which can only be done with the passage of a new resolution, I understand).

2) Under section 2, which deals with “reasonable restrictions”

It is stated that:
“an incitement to violence or widespread lawlessness”

Is while a legitimate concern, has been demonstrated many times over in many nations as an excuse exercised by the state to silence political opposition, rather than protecting the general public. More importantly, this criteria generally absolves the state – in which if the state expresses something that incites violence and lawlessness, this resolution is not invoked against them. NS/=US. Politicians in NS nations do not necessarily get off scott-free for inciting extralegal violence (that has more to do with politics than laws). That said, this isn't a bad point to make if it weren't for...


Similar to the above point - this is to point out that the current text is inadequate in curbing state abuse of this, and a future replacement resolution should address this loophole more aggressively.

3) This resolution does not adequately address hate crimes against any and all individuals and groups, regardless of ideological, political, and personal preferences. A resolution that more strongly allows equal expression by various groups, and protects all parties – whether majority or minority, popular or unpopular, from discrimination, hate speech, ex-communication, and/or any form of punishment outside the rule of law. This is Protecting Free Expression, not Prevention of Hate Crimes. It's not meant to protect against people and private organisations choosing not to associate with people they find unpalatable (and that cuts both ways. Bigots are free to be bigots. They're just not free from the social consequences thereof. As to the majority, considering the majority are the ones who make the rules (or are favored by the ones in power, usually. Apartheid IRL was the exception, not the rule), they don't really *need* the protection.

4) While this current resolution has the right motivation and ideas as its foundation, it is insufficient in its scope of protection. (It's quite sufficient. It was never meant to be all-encompassing, and it serves its intended role very well. What you're wanting is a completely different kettle of fish.)


[cI do want a different kettle of fish, but that kettle can only kind of be proposed with the fish in this kettle were removed first. Or am I missing something?

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