[PASSED] Right to Self-defense

[Battlion]

This proposal is too vague, but also fundamentally against our view on gun control - AGAINST.

[Invertere Utopia]

This is just another paper for the file cabinet.

I agree with the idea that it's too vague to have meaning or use. This is the kind of legal gray area that, when drafted into law, more often enables lawful evil than fixes any problem(s).

I also happen to think the historical anecdotes from Florida, USA paint a very heinous picture of what happens when you don't strictly define "self-defense" in legislation.

This is just an excuse for people to murder any unwelcome person(s) on their property. Anything can be perceived as a dangerous threat, and the dead cannot refute the lies of the living.

R.I.P. Trayvon Martin.

At best it means nothing. At worst you're signing a death warrant for the desperate, the mistaken, and the undereducated people who end up on someone else's claimed territory.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and maybe someone gets away with killing a child because they didn't look like they belonged where they were walking.

[Anglomir]

Chuckles. Well this is mildly topical.

[Saranidia]

This is just another paper for the file cabinet.

I agree with the idea that it's too vague to have meaning or use. This is the kind of legal gray area that, when drafted into law, more often enables lawful evil than fixes any problem(s).

I also happen to think the historical anecdotes from Florida, USA paint a very heinous picture of what happens when you don't strictly define "self-defense" in legislation.

This is just an excuse for people to murder any unwelcome person(s) on their property. Anything can be perceived as a dangerous threat, and the dead cannot refute the lies of the living.

R.I.P. Trayvon Martin.

At best it means nothing. At worst you're signing a death warrant for the desperate, the mistaken, and the undereducated people who end up on someone else's claimed territory.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and maybe someone gets away with killing a child because they didn't look like they belonged where they were walking.

True but it also protects minorities and such.


White American police officers would'nt be able to shoot black men if as soon as they arrested them unlawful or reached for a gun they were shot
(tables turned). Look at the Black Panthers.

[Separatist Peoples]

"The C.D.S.P. has powerful Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws in place that establish a primary facie reasonable force presumption for the use of lethal force against an attacker. As such, this law affects our policies almost not at all, except that this law removes exceptions in the case of lawful police use of force. That we cannot abide. The C.D.S.P. will support a repeal attempt, and stand against any pendulum swings of policy that inevitably follow inadequate legislation that seeks to divest our citizens of their right to self defense."

[Goldenson]

It should almost be edited to add in, "As long as actions involved in self-defense do not cause physical harm to bystanders, who are not involved in the altercation, or egregious physical damage to private property, not owned by the doer of self-defense along with public property being exempt unless it too suffers extreme egregious physical damage, the doer of self defense is protected from punishment or prosecution in those regards."

Something along those lines.

VOTING FOR.

[Konithran]

This is the first time I vote FOR a resolution, finally someone who recognized the important of promoting individual freedom instead of just increasing state's size and duties.

[Northeast American Federation]

"It is in the opinon of our nation that the right of self defense should be one that is self-evident, though codifying it will ensure that it is better protected. Of course, it is clear that some nations will continue to insist on preventing their citizenry from accessing the means to defend themselves, but that is a discussion for another session. The Northeast American Federation is in favor of this proposal."
-Ambassador Gregory Williams

[Liberimery]

"The C.D.S.P. has powerful Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws in place that establish a primary facie reasonable force presumption for the use of lethal force against an attacker. As such, this law affects our policies almost not at all, except that this law removes exceptions in the case of lawful police use of force. That we cannot abide. The C.D.S.P. will support a repeal attempt, and stand against any pendulum swings of policy that inevitably follow inadequate legislation that seeks to divest our citizens of their right to self defense."

This may change my vote. Can you show the logic behind your read of this, Ambassador?

[Separatist Peoples]

"The C.D.S.P. has powerful Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws in place that establish a primary facie reasonable force presumption for the use of lethal force against an attacker. As such, this law affects our policies almost not at all, except that this law removes exceptions in the case of lawful police use of force. That we cannot abide. The C.D.S.P. will support a repeal attempt, and stand against any pendulum swings of policy that inevitably follow inadequate legislation that seeks to divest our citizens of their right to self defense."

This may change my vote. Can you show the logic behind your read of this, Ambassador?

3. Affirms the right to self-defense, of oneself and/or his or her family, and declares that nations are to permit and accept the exercise of this right as an affirmative defense in cases, so long as:

a) The threat poses a clear and immediate danger to the life of the individual or his or her family,

b) The force used in response is not excessive with regards to the threat of the situation presented,

"The right of self defense is unqualified by the nature of the threat, merely the severity of the threat and the nature of the force. It applies equally to police officers as it does to criminals and wild animals. Sane states do not permit the use of force to defend oneself against an identified law enforcement officer, regardless of the force involved in their seizure. While the prosecution can argue that no such defense was reasonable, it does not eliminate the right to use that force in the first instance, and thus incentivizes force against law enforcement officers.There should be no self defense defense as against identified law enforcement."

[The Republic of The Republic of Toast]

We are AGAINST. The constitution of our country is fundamentally against the right to self-defense.

[Northeast American Federation]

We are AGAINST. The constitution of our country is fundamentally against the right to self-defense.

"Outrageous. What country that cares for its citizens would outright oppose their right to defend themselves? The delegate's home country does care for its citizens, yes?"
-Ambassador Gregory Williams

[The Republic of The Republic of Toast]

We are AGAINST. The constitution of our country is fundamentally against the right to self-defense.

"Outrageous. What country that cares for its citizens would outright oppose their right to defend themselves? The delegate's home country does care for its citizens, yes?"
-Ambassador Gregory Williams

"Ambassador Gregory Williams has no right to assume a country's position towards its people, no less insult the country's constitution. My nation trusts its criminal justice system completely and there is no need for people to take matters into their own hands. If Ambassador Williams won't stop blabbering, I would support an invasion of the Northeastern American Federation!"
-Outspoken citizen

[Saranidia]

"Outrageous. What country that cares for its citizens would outright oppose their right to defend themselves? The delegate's home country does care for its citizens, yes?"
-Ambassador Gregory Williams

"Ambassador Gregory Williams has no right to assume a country's position towards its people, no less insult the country's constitution. My nation trusts its criminal justice system completely and there is no need for people to take matters into their own hands. If Ambassador Williams won't stop blabbering, I would support an invasion of the Northeastern American Federation!"
-Outspoken citizen

"if you invade we will sign a mutual defence treaty and kick your a--"- Saranidian Commander Of the Soldiers, speaking on behalf of Sisterly Leader Miriam Khan.

[Canadaiana]

"Ambassador Gregory Williams has no right to assume a country's position towards its people, no less insult the country's constitution. My nation trusts its criminal justice system completely and there is no need for people to take matters into their own hands. If Ambassador Williams won't stop blabbering, I would support an invasion of the Northeastern American Federation!"
-Outspoken citizen

"if you invade we will sign a mutual defence treaty and kick your a--"- Saranidian Commander Of the Soldiers, speaking on behalf of Sisterly Leader Miriam Khan.

If either of your tyrannies continue to threaten further damage to your people's, our world class peacemaking forces will step in to end such a conflict once and for all.

As to the proposal at vote, we oppose it and intend to repeal and replace it with a right to collective defense, as "self defense" is an illusion at best and a ticket to commit violence at worse.

[Separatist Peoples]

"if you invade we will sign a mutual defence treaty and kick your a--"- Saranidian Commander Of the Soldiers, speaking on behalf of Sisterly Leader Miriam Khan.

If either of your tyrannies continue to threaten further damage to your people's, our world class peacemaking forces will step in to end such a conflict once and for all.

As to the proposal at vote, we oppose it and intend to repeal and replace it with a right to collective defense, as "self defense" is an illusion at best and a ticket to commit violence at worse.

"If you step into the middle of this very amusing diplomatic incident, our world class warmaking forces will have to step in and make sure the war goes off without a hitch. Why on earth would you trod on a perfectly amusing pissing match?"

[Saranidia]

"if you invade we will sign a mutual defence treaty and kick your a--"- Saranidian Commander Of the Soldiers, speaking on behalf of Sisterly Leader Miriam Khan.

If either of your tyrannies continue to threaten further damage to your people's, our world class peacemaking forces will step in to end such a conflict once and for all.

As to the proposal at vote, we oppose it and intend to repeal and replace it with a right to collective defense, as "self defense" is an illusion at best and a ticket to commit violence at worse.

"we will fight if you threaten us further"- Major General Muhammad.

[Canadaiana]

If either of your tyrannies continue to threaten further damage to your people's, our world class peacemaking forces will step in to end such a conflict once and for all.

As to the proposal at vote, we oppose it and intend to repeal and replace it with a right to collective defense, as "self defense" is an illusion at best and a ticket to commit violence at worse.

"If you step into the middle of this very amusing diplomatic incident, our world class warmaking forces will have to step in and make sure the war goes off without a hitch. Why on earth would you trod on a perfectly amusing pissing match?"

Core to our nation is the principle of collective peace through collective strength.We do not see any wars as simple petty "pissing matches" and will willing step in where necessary. We are not simply justifying the expenditure associated with our military by looking for conflict.

[Separatist Peoples]

"If you step into the middle of this very amusing diplomatic incident, our world class warmaking forces will have to step in and make sure the war goes off without a hitch. Why on earth would you trod on a perfectly amusing pissing match?"

Core to our nation is the principle of collective peace through collective strength.We do not see any wars as simple petty "pissing matches" and will willing step in where necessary. We are not simply justifying the expenditure associated with our military by looking for conflict.

"Your collective strength isn't needed here. Go bully elsewhere, ambassador."

Bell turns back to the bickering, pulling out a tin of peanuts to snack on.

[Saranidia]

Ambassador Khan begins eating his dates surrounded by 5 Daughters of The Revolution bodyguards and looking for the view of the Quran on the subject.

In the end he quotes this




Az-Zubair reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “If someone unsheathes his sword and is striking people with it, then it is permissible to shed his blood.”
Source: Sunan An-Nasa’i 4102

He says "see it is haram to vote against. If any nation votes against they will be voting against the words of the prophet Muhammad ."

[Separatist Peoples]

Ambassador Khan begins eating his dates surrounded by 5 Daughters of The Revolution bodyguards and looking for the view of the Quran on the subject.

In the end he quotes this

39. “To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight) for they have been oppressed, and verily Allah is well able to assist them.”
-Surah Al-Hajj – Verse 39, Quran


He says "see it is haram to vote against. If any nation votes against they will be voting against Islamic law."

"Ambassador, why do you think that, in any way, affects the majority of delegations?"

[Saranidia]

Ambassador Khan begins eating his dates surrounded by 5 Daughters of The Revolution bodyguards and looking for the view of the Quran on the subject.

In the end he quotes this

39. “To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight) for they have been oppressed, and verily Allah is well able to assist them.”
-Surah Al-Hajj – Verse 39, Quran


He says "see it is haram to vote against. If any nation votes against they will be voting against Islamic law."

"Ambassador, why do you think that, in any way, affects the majority of delegations?"

"Not the majority but It will affect all Muslim delegates save Quran only Muslims. if I catch a Muslim delegate voting against I will discuss theology with them.", "I shall also bring biblequotes such as Exodus 22 if the delegates would like."

[Separatist Peoples]

"Ambassador, why do you think that, in any way, affects the majority of delegations?"

"Not the majority but It will affect all Muslim delegates save Quran only Muslims. if I catch a Muslim delegate voting against I will discuss theology with them.", "I shall also bring biblequotes such as Exodus 22 if the delegates would like."

"I think that violates GAR#9, ambassador."

[Saranidia]

"Not the majority but It will affect all Muslim delegates save Quran only Muslims. if I catch a Muslim delegate voting against I will discuss theology with them.", "I shall also bring biblequotes such as Exodus 22 if the delegates would like."

"I think that violates GAR#9, ambassador."

OOC: can you give me a link to GAR#9

"Well ideological bans are prohibited so banning nations from basing their votes on religious would be prohibited".

[Kenmoria]

"I think that violates GAR#9, ambassador."

OOC: can you give me a link to GAR#9

"Well ideological bans are prohibited so banning nations from basing their votes on religious would be prohibited".

(OOC: Here it is. Separatist Peoples was making a reference to the rules of the World Assembly Headquarters though, not to a clause banning anything ideological. Also, there are many reasons to vote AGAINST the proposal, one of the best being that it authorises criminals’ families to shoot police officers harming their (criminal and possibly in the process of murdering) relatives.)