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[PASSED] Repeal "Freedom of Expression"

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Imperium Anglorum
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Posts: 8429
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

[PASSED] Repeal "Freedom of Expression"

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:20 pm

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Repeal "Freedom of Expression"
Target



The World Assembly,

Resolving that it is profoundly immoral to permit corporations and legal persons to lie to consumers,

Believing that society as a whole can have justifiable reasons to restrict expression for public safety and to prevent the consumption or publication of materials that would damage public health, social order, or needless antagonisation,

Seeing that society should have the ability to regulate adverts and their means of distribution, eg prohibiting tobacco advertisements from being shown on childrens' television channels or placing limits on where or what can be depicted in such advertising, and

Confident that there will be a scrambling of legislative efforts to replace this resolution with more appropriate legislation that permits society to protect itself, hereby:

Repeals GA c 30 "Freedom of Expression".
Last edited by Ransium on Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 8 times in total.

Author: 1 SC and 26 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
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Imperium Anglorum
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Posts: 8429
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:20 pm

Oh noes! You're getting rid of expression!
No, I'm not.

People doesn't include corporations!
Yes, it does, legal personhood is a thing.

Lies are not protected!
People can believe false things.

There is no precedent for your interpretation!
Read the forum more. viewtopic.php?p=33932541#p33932541
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

Author: 1 SC and 26 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate

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Stoskavanya
Envoy
 
Posts: 205
Founded: Aug 08, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Stoskavanya » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:47 pm

Speech intended to swindle customers that is false or misleading should not be entitled to any protection. Full support.

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:19 pm

"Aye. No objections."
United Massachusetts
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Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
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Merni
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Posts: 610
Founded: May 03, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Merni » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:45 pm

What is "GA c 30" Shouldn't it be GA#30, or 30 GA, or something?

Otherwise, I like it.
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New Raffica
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Founded: Nov 15, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Raffica » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:48 pm

Full support
Proud member of Icarus

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Kenmoria
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Posts: 3766
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:48 pm

"Seems good to me, support."
Last edited by Kenmoria on Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Eternal Lotharia
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Founded: Dec 27, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Eternal Lotharia » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:50 pm

"We see no issue with this. We fully support it."
Joe Biden/Beto O'Rourke 2020
or
Bernie Sanders/Steve Bullock 2020
or
Sherrod Brown/Amy Klobuchar 2020

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
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Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:14 am

Merni wrote:What is "GA c 30" Shouldn't it be GA#30, or 30 GA, or something?

Otherwise, I like it.

"We demand an answer to this question."
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8429
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:08 am

OSCOLA 4e s 2.4.3, with regnal year removed

Author: 1 SC and 26 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate

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A Bright Future
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 109
Founded: May 30, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby A Bright Future » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:44 am

I was thinking about this last week. I would interpret academic fraud as counting as allowing prevention of misleading consumers. E.g. if a tobacco company says smoking is healthy that would amount to an fraudulent representation of scientific knowledge on smoking. I have a draft proposal to clarify academic fraud which would be better than repealing this relatively well drafted resolution. Freedom of speech would not be protected while this resolution is not in effect and as far as I know there is no replacement on the cards.

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Liberimery
Envoy
 
Posts: 272
Founded: May 27, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Liberimery » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:35 am

The Democratic States of Liberimery request that the terms "Public Health", ""Social Order", and "Needless Antagonism" as used in paragraph 2 of this resolution. While on its face it does meet our laws on commercial speech rights, these terms can be broadly interpreted.

We also would request a legal ruling on a resolution that would either amend GA#30 to include commercial speech provision OR if a new proposal would not conflict with GA#30. This preserves protections provide by GA#30 that would be eliminated by a repeal.

Until such questions are answered, while I am understanding the goal of your proposal, we find the methods dangerous and will oppose. It is far better to allow the problem to persist if the cure is the death of even one persons beliefs at the hands of their government.

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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 3766
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Liberimery wrote:The Democratic States of Liberimery request that the terms "Public Health", ""Social Order", and "Needless Antagonism" as used in paragraph 2 of this resolution. While on its face it does meet our laws on commercial speech rights, these terms can be broadly interpreted.

We also would request a legal ruling on a resolution that would either amend GA#30 to include commercial speech provision OR if a new proposal would not conflict with GA#30. This preserves protections provide by GA#30 that would be eliminated by a repeal.
(OOC: It is illegal to amend a resolution, it is also impossible for technical reasons. In addition, any proposal that would illegalise fraudulent commercial speech would most likely contradict GA #30.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Liberimery
Envoy
 
Posts: 272
Founded: May 27, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Liberimery » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:32 pm

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: It is illegal to amend a resolution, it is also impossible for technical reasons. In addition, any proposal that would illegalise fraudulent commercial speech would most likely contradict GA #30.)


OOC: Commercial Speech is not specifically protected at any point in GA#30. Nor does it fail a test of an unreasonable government interest. The government would be on the hook for a misadvertised medical product that they might have to pay compensation if The have state provided healthcare or impact the economy if the business goes bankrupt. A previous poster that commercial speech could be a form of academic dishonesty. Fraud is specifically not a crime, which is a superset of almost all illicit commercial speech. In real life The United States does have commercial speech laws that doesn't conflict with Free Speech protections nor required a repeal and rewrite In fact, US jurisprudence recognizes commercial speech as separate from Political Speech and unprotected speech. An originalist reading of GA#30 will clearly identify clear statements that would allow for a separation of commercial and political statement and less protections for the former.

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Christian Democrats
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 9977
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:40 pm

Against.

We don't believe the defects in Freedom of Expression are sufficient to warrant a repeal, at least without a proposed replacement resolution that would adopt an almost equally open stance on the rights of speakers.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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A Bright Future
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 109
Founded: May 30, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby A Bright Future » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:40 pm

Does anyone think there may be a case for honest mistake legal challenge here?
Honest Mistake: Repeals should address the contents of the resolution it's targeting, and not just state the reverse of the arguments given in the resolution. Embellishment, exaggeration, deceptive/weaselly-words do not constitute an 'honest mistake'. An 'honest mistake' is factual inaccuracies, misrepresentation, or content that doesn't address the resolution.
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348
No clause refers to exact content of the resolution being repealed? No clause.
Each clause only states the reverse of the arguments in the resolution? Each clause.
Content does not address resolution? No. Reference to resolution only in clause calling for repeal and the one being certain of replacement.
Misrepresentation: society can already protect itself under FoE to a degree, the penultimate clause is misleading in that sense.

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State of SouthCarolina
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby State of SouthCarolina » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:04 pm

This proposal is opening Pandora's box to fix a section of a previous Resolution. It is not worth going down this track. If states do not agree with the GA #30, they would of simply withdrawn from the WA. The WA can not function without this pillar of democratic thought. We at U.W.S. will vote against this proposal if it gets to that stage. We would hope that other democratic regions would do the same.

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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 3766
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:29 am

A Bright Future wrote:Does anyone think there may be a case for honest mistake legal challenge here?
Honest Mistake: Repeals should address the contents of the resolution it's targeting, and not just state the reverse of the arguments given in the resolution. Embellishment, exaggeration, deceptive/weaselly-words do not constitute an 'honest mistake'. An 'honest mistake' is factual inaccuracies, misrepresentation, or content that doesn't address the resolution.
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348
No clause refers to exact content of the resolution being repealed? No clause.
Each clause only states the reverse of the arguments in the resolution? Each clause.
Content does not address resolution? No. Reference to resolution only in clause calling for repeal and the one being certain of replacement.
Misrepresentation: society can already protect itself under FoE to a degree, the penultimate clause is misleading in that sense.

I would argue there is no cause for an honest mistake violation, because the repeal is specific to the target resolution, as it would not work for any others. It is not a repeal going "It's bad and harms sovereignty!" as that works for any resolution.
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Edrarin
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 44
Founded: Oct 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Edrarin » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:33 am

"The Edrarin Federation too does not choose to support this proposal for exact reasons my two other colleagues have stated"
Last edited by Edrarin on Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Uan aa Boa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 617
Founded: Apr 23, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Uan aa Boa » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:56 am

The target resolution "affirms the right of all people to express their personal, moral, political, cultural, religious and ideological views freely and openly, without fear of reprisal." I fail to see how this prevents state regulation of advertising and other corporate claims and therefore believe this repeal to be unnecessary.

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Reformed Badad
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jun 02, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Reformed Badad » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:55 pm

The Reformed Republic of Badad is inclined to agree with the other dissenters of this repeal. Your reasoning for putting this repeal into motion has little to do with what the majority of G.A. #30 is protecting, as most of it not only is describing something that is considered a basic human right for the individual but as Liberimery stated, commercial speech isn't specifically protected and can clearly be separated from protected forms of expression.
I'm concerned most who voted never read the original resolution at all and simply read the repeal, which I would've agreed with otherwise.

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Kinth
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kinth » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:14 pm

Kinth finds this appalling and misleading. In Kinth's understanding of GA #30 it does not protect corporate speech. It can also be argued that any false corporate speech is already restricted by GA #30, under Academic Fraud.

In addition, Kinth is saddened that so many have thus far voted for this repeal, likely without actually reading GA #30, or knowing that while this resolution states that it is "confident" replacements for GA #30 will quickly follow, there are currently NONE proposed. Also horrified that some may be voting for this repeal because they do not any sort of Freedom of Expression, and will vote against any replacement of GA #30.

Kinth would also like to remind people that, in many cases, "Repeal and Replace" is code for "Repeal and Ignore".
Last edited by Kinth on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 3766
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:16 pm

Kinth wrote:Kinth finds this appalling and misleading. In Kinth's understanding of GA #30 it does not protect corporate speech. It can also be argued that any false corporate speech is already restricted by GA #30, under Academic Fraud.

In addition, Kinth is saddened that so many have thus far voted for this repeal, likely without actually reading GA #30, or knowing that while this resolution states that it is "confident" replacements for GA #30 will quickly follow, there are currently NONE proposed. Also horrified that some may be voting for this repeal because they do not any sort of Freedom of Expression, and will vote against any replacement of GA #30.

Kinth would also like to remind people that, in many cases, "Repeal and Replace" is code for "Repeal and Ignore".

There is actually a replacement currently being drafted.
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Uan aa Boa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 617
Founded: Apr 23, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Uan aa Boa » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:28 pm

Yes, but that draft is too fundamentally flawed to be relevant to the current vote. We have no idea what a replacement would look like.

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Kinth
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kinth » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:31 pm


Agreed that that draft is fundamentally flawed. In addition, there is a big difference between a draft, and a proposal. Kinth is still firmly against this repeal.

In addition, Kenmoria's own attitude towards other nations requesting changes, or expressing concerns with that draft causes Kinth to firmly believe that Kenmoria, along with the original author of that draft, have less than honorable intentions.

CLARIFICATION: This post is directed towards the DRAFT REPLACEMENT... NOT the repeal
Last edited by Kinth on Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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