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[SUBMITTED] Minors and Recreational Drugs

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Min » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:19 am

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Clause 5 now forbids people from bringing their children with them into a pharmacist, when they themselves go get medication not prescribed to the children. So are you seriously mandating that toddlers be left outside the store in a, say, shopping mall?

OOC: Fixed.
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Kenmoria
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:46 am

"Why are subclauses 5.1 and 5.2 under clause 5, when they relate to clause 6?"
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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New Min
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Postby New Min » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:21 pm

Kenmoria wrote:"Why are subclauses 5.1 and 5.2 under clause 5, when they relate to clause 6?"

OOC: Because I forgot to change that when I removed a clause, but I fixed it.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:50 pm

"You defined 'dangerous drugs' in clause 2, but then use just 'drug' throughout the rest of the proposal."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
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Postby New Min » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:22 am

Kenmoria wrote:"You defined 'dangerous drugs' in clause 2, but then use just 'drug' throughout the rest of the proposal."

OOC: I've read it again, and don't see the problem. Maybe you mean this:
(4) Bans the use of drugs by minors when:
(4.1) the substance is a dangerous drug,

Here, the dangerous drugs clause is being used. If I still missed a mistake, please tell which one.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:22 am

New Min wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:"You defined 'dangerous drugs' in clause 2, but then use just 'drug' throughout the rest of the proposal."

OOC: I've read it again, and don't see the problem. Maybe you mean this:
(4) Bans the use of drugs by minors when:
(4.1) the substance is a dangerous drug,

Here, the dangerous drugs clause is being used. If I still missed a mistake, please tell which one.
"Clause five."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
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Postby New Min » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:52 am

Kenmoria wrote:"Clause five."

This the the clause:
(5) Prohibits selling and/or handing over dangerous drugs to minors.
(5.1) Mandates member nations to consider violation of clause 5 a criminal offense, and
(5.2) Requires member nations to seriously punish those found guilty of violating clause 5.
(5.3) Selling/handing over dangerous drugs to minors with a valid prescription is excepted from this clause.

OOC: I really don't see where it is being used. (I'm sorry if I keep reading over it.)
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:33 pm

OOC: I would suggest adding "for the purposes of this resolution" to the definitions. That's so you're not trying to re-define the English language in its entirety. Especially the "dangerous drugs" one.
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Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
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Postby New Min » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:36 am

OOC: I have submitted the proposal and started sending campaign telegrams!

Araraukar wrote:OOC: I would suggest adding "for the purposes of this resolution" to the definitions. That's so you're not trying to re-define the English language in its entirety. Especially the "dangerous drugs" one.

IC: "I saw that a lot of resolutions don't do so and nor did I, to keep the proposal short. Thanks for the feedback though."
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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:08 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:If we really believe that all committees are perfect, then we should really just eliminate national governments and have the WA directly administer all territories. Because they make the best and most perfect decision, every time.

There are some here who would advocate that very thing.
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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:25 am

Here is my problem with this:

(6) Prohibits the possession of dangerous drugs by minors for non-medical reasons.

When prohibiting something, that makes it criminal activity, be it a misdemeanor or felony, even in States where recreational drugs are legal. Just like current (both RW and many NS States) laws which prohibit possession of alcohol by minors, and which gives them a juvenile criminal record.First, second, or even third offences may be overlooked, or dismissed with a "kids will be kids. Why, when I was his age ..." attitude, but repeat offences do lead to a criminal record and incarceration. Is this what we want?

(7) Encourages member states to help minors addicted to recreational drugs.

And then we get to this bit. Pamphlets, boring speakers at school, cutesy sloganeering ("Just Say NO!"), and wholly or partially State funded "rehab" run by well-intentioned but clueless social workers that the kids treat as a joke.

I really do not see how this will make anything better. It has far more potential to become an endless money pit.
I am a grumpy old man. Your first mistake was believing I care about your opinion. Get off my lawn.

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
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Postby New Min » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:38 am

Grays Harbor wrote:When prohibiting something, that makes it criminal activity, be it a misdemeanor or felony, even in States where recreational drugs are legal. Just like current (both RW and many NS States) laws which prohibit possession of alcohol by minors, and which gives them a juvenile criminal record.First, second, or even third offences may be overlooked, or dismissed with a "kids will be kids. Why, when I was his age ..." attitude, but repeat offences do lead to a criminal record and incarceration. Is this what we want?

OOC: I am not able to understand you, sorry. This resolution indeed makes the possession illegal, but the penalties for the possession are up to each individual nation.

Grays Harbor wrote:And then we get to this bit. Pamphlets, boring speakers at school, cutesy sloganeering ("Just Say NO!"), and wholly or partially State funded "rehab" run by well-intentioned but clueless social workers that the kids treat as a joke.

IC: "This clause doesn't encourage members to create pamphlets etc., but encourage them to help those who are addicted by (for example) setting up rehab programs. Of course, not all programs help, but I trust the member states to find a working program for their citizens."
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:42 am

Doesn’t really do much if there’s no enforcement mechanism, eh?

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New Min
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Postby New Min » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:45 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Doesn’t really do much if there’s no enforcement mechanism, eh?

IC: "Just like all other resolutions, the member states have the responsibility to enforce them."
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:49 am

1. To whom are you responding?

2. Doesn’t excuse writing legislation trivially bypassed.

Author: 1 SC and 26 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:50 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Doesn’t really do much if there’s no enforcement mechanism, eh?

OOC: There's no real enforcement mechanism that can be written into a proposal, aside from the ones already existing.

Clause 7 refers to recreational drugs, which are otherwise only referred to in one preamble clause. One could easily consider them to mean "non-dangerous drugs", such as, indeed, caffeine.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
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Postby New Min » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:02 am

Araraukar wrote:Clause 7 refers to recreational drugs, which are otherwise only referred to in one preamble clause. One could easily consider them to mean "non-dangerous drugs", such as, indeed, caffeine.

IC: "If children are addicted to caffeine, the WA encourages its member states to help them indeed."

Imperium Anglorum wrote:1. To whom are you responding?

OOC: I was responding to you.

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Doesn’t excuse writing legislation trivially bypassed.

IC: "If nations chose to give light penalties to those who break a clause in this resolution, that is their sovereign right to do so."
OOC: And just like Ararauker said, we can't build in an enforcement mechanism.
Araraukar wrote:There's no real enforcement mechanism that can be written into a proposal, aside from the ones already existing.
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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:06 am

New Min wrote:
Araraukar wrote:Clause 7 refers to recreational drugs, which are otherwise only referred to in one preamble clause. One could easily consider them to mean "non-dangerous drugs", such as, indeed, caffeine.

IC: "If children are addicted to caffeine, the WA encourages its member states to help them indeed."

OOC: Please stop responding to OOC comments in IC. EDIT: That's what IA meant with the "who are you responding to".
Last edited by Araraukar on Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Min » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:11 am

Araraukar wrote:
New Min wrote:IC: "If children are addicted to caffeine, the WA encourages its member states to help them indeed."

OOC: Please stop responding to OOC comments in IC. EDIT: That's what IA meant with the "who are you responding to".

OOC: Okay, I'm sorry.
Last edited by New Min on Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Honk Donk
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Founded: Mar 18, 2018
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Postby Honk Donk » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:13 am

Aren't proposal debates supposed to be out of character anyway?
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Honk Donk
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Postby Honk Donk » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:17 am

New Min wrote:Defines a 'minor' as a sapient being under the legal age of majority as defined by in their nation for the purpose of this resolution.

Could a nation not just define this age as zero to avoid having to obey the proposal?
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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:37 am

Honk Donk wrote:Aren't proposal debates supposed to be out of character anyway?

(OOC: No, IC is completely permissible in draft threads, some people prefer it. However, legality challenge threads are always OOC.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Currently centre-right on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts our democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
New Min
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Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Min » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Honk Donk wrote:Could a nation not just define this age as zero to avoid having to obey the proposal?

OOC: They could, but this would also mean that babies are no longer the responsibility of their parents, as they are considered 'adult'. So I don't see this happening, except for maybe a few nations.
MINISTER OF WORLD ASSEMBLY AFFAIRS
of The People's Republic of The Communist Bloc

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New Min
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Min » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:31 pm

OOC: I just saw that a GenSec member considered my proposal illegal because of the category rule, does anyone know why he disagrees with the category?

EDIT: I know there is a separate "Outlaw Recreation Drugs" category, but, as far as I know, this can only be used for completely outlawing drugs.
Last edited by New Min on Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:28 am

New Min wrote:OOC: EDIT: I know there is a separate "Outlaw Recreation Drugs" category, but, as far as I know, this can only be used for completely outlawing drugs.

OOC: To my knowledge it can also be used for restrictions. It's basically just badly named.
"I've come to appreciate boring bureaucracy much more after my official execution..." - Johan Milkus, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

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