[Draft] Secular Education Reform Act

[Grays Harbor]

Religious education does not automatically equal "Bad"

OOC:
Yes it does.

Secular education does not automatically equal "good"

Oh, we're on the same page there then.

This despite your trying to paint it as such. You rail against "religious education" and their insidious methods of forcing viewpoints and religion, all while trying to mandate an institutional indoctrination program against religion.

As written, it's bad legislation, but I don't see how it does anything of the sort.

You act surprised, like this was the first thing our delegations have ever disagreed upon.

[The New Nordic Union]

SUGGESTS that nations create “Educational Boards” made up of individuals who are voted into the position and are beholden to the voter as

As what?

Also, is 'beholden' the right choice of word here? It means 'indebted, obliged' or 'bound by external expectations'. Did you maybe mean 'answerable/accountable to the voter'?

[Edrarin]

SUGGESTING that creating opportunities for secular Education will result in a more advanced society and a more tolerant society

"Answer me this ambassador, how would Secular education result in a more tolerant society?"

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

RECOGNIZING that education the that operates outside of religious influences removes pressure of non-religious peoples to convert for comfort

OOC: Typo

SUGGESTING that creating opportunities for secular Education will result in a more advanced society and a more tolerant society

"Answer me this ambassador, how would Secular education result in a more tolerant society?"

Teran Saber: "Allow me to answer that. Throughout history, many religions (not all), particularly very militant ones, have taught that those who reject said religion are condemned, and that the religious belief must be spread to as many people as possible. This can result in hostilities when two militant religions interact, such as the wars known as the "crusades" on Earth many centuries ago. Furthermore, many religions (not all) teach that certain groups of people are immoral by default, even if members of those groups have done nothing wrong of their own accord."

"An education system influenced by religion would normalize these intolerances, assuming the religion in question has them, ingraining them into children at an early age. A purely secular education system would not be subject to these influences."

[Coutuza]

Secular Education Reform Act

A resolution to promote ensure citizens right to education uninfluenced by religion

Category: Education and Creativity
Area of Effect: Cultural Heritage
Proposed by: Alsace and Lorraine United

Description:

NOTING that education is imperative to create a functional and civil society


AWARE that religion influences much of religious societies,

RECOGNIZING that education the operates outside of religious influences removes pressure of non-religious peoples to convert for comfort

SUGGESTING that creating opportunities for secular Education will result in a more advanced society and a more tolerant society


HEREBY


REQUESTS that nations provide opportunities to its citizens to partake in education of which is separated from religious institutions as well as ensures the secular institutions are not influenced by religious practices,

ESTABLISHES The Public Education Integrity Committee (PEIC),

TASKS the PEIC with ensuring that nations provide their citizens with secular Education opportunities as well as ensuring that the education received in secular school is of quality and effectiveness

REQUESTS WITH EARNEST that nations allow citizens to decide how Secular Education institutions are established and funded through voting and referendum,

SUGGESTS that nations create “Educational Boards” made up of individuals who are voted into the position and are beholden to the voter as

CLARIFIES that this bill in no way removes or bans non-secular education. Only seeks to provide a nation's citizens with options

“Ambassador, this ‘PEIC’ seems to not have the ability to enforce any of the articles enacted by this piece of legislation, would you mind elaborating on the role the ’PEIC’ would have in enforcing this resolution?”

[Kenmoria]

"Also, the RECOGNISING and SUGGESTING clauses lack finishing punctuation."

[Alsace and Lorraine United]

1. Religious education does not automatically equal "Bad"
2. Secular education does not automatically equal "good"

This despite your trying to paint it as such. You rail against "religious education" and their insidious methods of forcing viewpoints and religion, all while trying to mandate an institutional indoctrination program against religion. Would you like to explain how one is different from the other?

There is no way I could ever support this in pretty much any form.

It provides options and doesn’t bar religion in any way

[The First German Order]

“I meant to ask earlier, but can we get a strength, ambassador?”

[Kenmoria]

“I meant to ask earlier, but can we get a strength, ambassador?”

"No, there can be no strength for a proposal in its current category, only an area of effect."

[Grays Harbor]

1. Religious education does not automatically equal "Bad"
2. Secular education does not automatically equal "good"

This despite your trying to paint it as such. You rail against "religious education" and their insidious methods of forcing viewpoints and religion, all while trying to mandate an institutional indoctrination program against religion. Would you like to explain how one is different from the other?

There is no way I could ever support this in pretty much any form.

It provides options and doesn’t bar religion in any way

OK, lets see what the draft says:

AWARE that religion influences much of religious societies,

That may well be why they are called "religious societies", hmmm?

RECOGNIZING that education the operates outside of religious influences removes pressure of non-religious peoples to convert for comfort

Supposition and innuendo do not make for a good resolution.

OOC: Just an example from RL that shows the opposite of what you assert. As a rule, RL stats are not allowed, this is only meant to shed light on your incorrect assumption.
“In 1970, only 2.7 percent of our students in Catholic schools were non-Catholic,” Gossart said. “Today, we know that between 18 and 19 percent are non-Catholic. In the inner-cities and very urban schools, there may be 70–80 percent non-Catholic students.”

SUGGESTING that creating opportunities for secular Education will result in a more advanced society and a more tolerant society

This sounds more based on personal prejudice than on facts.

REQUESTS that nations provide opportunities to its citizens to partake in education of which is separated from religious institutions as well as ensures the secular institutions are not influenced by religious practices,

Because "religion is bad", right? And "secular is good".

Still not seeing how this is anything but something based upon your own preconceived notions, misrepresentations, and prejudices.

[Wallenburg]

For now I will ignore the grammar issues, and get right to the meat of the proposal.

REQUESTS that nations provide opportunities to its citizens to partake in education of which is separated from religious institutions as well as ensures the secular institutions are not influenced by religious practices,

Good. I can support this, although I think it would be even better to make this a requirement, if the WA will pass such a mandate.

ESTABLISHES The Public Education Integrity Committee (PEIC),

TASKS the PEIC with ensuring that nations provide their citizens with secular Education opportunities as well as ensuring that the education received in secular school is of quality and effectiveness

This seems to assume that members are required to make available secular education opportunities. Is this a requirement, or will the committee only bother nations that have formally agreed to abide by the previous request?

REQUESTS WITH EARNEST that nations allow citizens to decide how Secular Education institutions are established and funded through voting and referendum,

SUGGESTS that nations create “Educational Boards” made up of individuals who are voted into the position and are beholden to the voter as

What of members that are not democracies? You cannot expect them to institute voting for these policies and offices.

CLARIFIES that this bill in no way removes or bans non-secular education. Only seeks to provide a nation's citizens with options

Also very good. Parents should not be required to put their children through indoctrination camps.

The proposal has a genuinely noble goal. However, I don't see anything that realistically affects member states. Any member that wants to force children through religious education will continue to do so, rejecting this proposal's requests and suggestions. To have a substantial effect, you will have to require member states to do something.

[New-Brussels]

All OOC:

It provides options and doesn’t bar religion in any way

OK, lets see what the draft says:

[legitimate critic of author's intent without disputing his claim]

Still not seeing how this is anything but something based upon your own preconceived notions, misrepresentations, and prejudices.

I could say the same thing about your argument's basis, however legitimate it is.

Ensuring that secular institutions aren't influenced by religion is pretty much a given and while the source you cited is decidedly pertinent, it is still formulated in the context of a widely multicultural nation which has arguably majorly evolved past the stage of religious fundamentalism. (i.e. : people care less about religious education, especially in american urban areas, that is what I gathered from this article and undoubtedly an argument in favor of the proposal)

One can correctly deduce that the access to comfortable religious education is an incentive for conversion, and in a way that is less pejorative than in the current wording, I admit. One can also deduce that one's lack of religious beliefs implies that they have no positive interest in religious education, prompting the need for a secular alternative.

What really gripes me in your argument is that it doesn't prove that A&LU is wrong when saying that his proposal doesn't bar religious options and provides viable alternatives, which shows that you only want to counter his purported intolerance with your own.

As he already said : "The bill is not about religion be taught in school, it is about religious institutions being the only option in some states"

What I advise you to do, Alsace Lorraine, is to refine your intent in the light of what Grays has said (be less harsh to religion, you're not fighting it, you're fighting the shortcomings of the education system) and just write better (easier said than done, be brave and concentrate on your syntax)

Quick PS :

Here in Belgium, state-funded education coexists with religious education pretty much seamlessly, with a partly common curriculum and basic guidelines. Basically, the religious foundations of religious education institutions are widely ignored by parents, their children and the concerned teachers of non-religious courses (with religious courses being mostly axed on the moral teachings you can extract from religion), especially in high education (catholic universities are pretty much catholic only by name and basic values). I was put in a state-funded school because my father is staunchly anticlerical and many Belgian parents think the same or the exact opposite, but the great majority just doesn't care anymore.

Your proposal clearly intends to provide such a possibility and I applaud that.

However, such a matter has never reached the federal level in Belgium (it is at best a regional prerogative and at worst a local one) and I really advise you not to go further than establishing the obligation to provide secular education alternatives because you might leave the international scope very easily if you haven't already done so. (Even if I'm like Wally and would love you to crack down on nations that force children to go through a religious curriculum.)

[Kenmoria]

"I wouldn't establish a new committee, given how many of them there are already, but instead re-use an old one."

[Wallenburg]

"I wouldn't establish a new committee, given how many of them there are already, but instead re-use and old one."

Which one do you propose?

[Kenmoria]

"I wouldn't establish a new committee, given how many of them there are already, but instead re-use and old one."

Which one do you propose?

The Global Initiative for Basic Education (GIBE) seems like the most ideal choice.