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[DEFEATED] Treatment of the Deceased

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:53 am

Blueflarst wrote:
Masurbia wrote:This proposal would make it illegal for authorities to exhume graves in an investigation.

The authority must not touch my body if i do want it.
Your laws can not be over the sanctity of the body

OOC: I think you missed the reply to that:
Erithaca wrote:
Masurbia wrote:This proposal would make it illegal for authorities to exhume graves in an investigation.

I fixed that by adding an exception for criminal investigations.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
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Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
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Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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The Great Boom
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 111
Founded: Oct 03, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Boom » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:27 am

OOC: In response to my question why criminal investigations weren't specifically exempted, the author of this resolution wrote in another thread,

"In all fairness, it would have been appropriate to specifically include this, but clause 4.c. does reference criminal investigations in the words 'an epidemic, catastrophe, major accident or other compelling situation.' This is more an issue of writing style rather than a serious omission that would have a meaningful impact on the execution of this resolution."

I'm troubled by how vague that is. Epidemic and catastrophe generally don't describe a run-of-the-mill criminal case. "A compelling reason" clearly leaves interpretation up to courts. And given that the nations who would like to violate this resolution in principle are likely to have at least one rubber stamp court, the clause baaically undermines your whole resolution rather than just exempt specifically what you wanted to exempt. I can understand why this omission happened, but I think it undermines the resolution and even contradicts your preamble. So even though I support the goal of your resolution, my country will vote no.

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Palsada
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 41
Founded: Jun 17, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Palsada » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:23 pm

This has to be one of the most one sided votes in recent history.

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The Great Boom
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 111
Founded: Oct 03, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Boom » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:01 pm

Palsada wrote:This has to be one of the most one sided votes in recent history.


Even though I don't support the resolution, I'm really surprised. This is hardly an offensive issue, it's well intended and the flaws seem pretty minor. I wouldn't mind if this passed. I'm sure there have been far worse proposals and I can think of resolutions that are on the books more flawed than this.

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Liberimery
Envoy
 
Posts: 318
Founded: May 27, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Liberimery » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:19 pm

Liberimery will vote nay on this Resolution as we do not see it as something international law should be concerned with.

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The Evil Dark Empire of Evil Darkness
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: May 01, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Evil Dark Empire of Evil Darkness » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:25 pm

Why aren't we advocating for necrophilia yet?

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Inderlanda3
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Jun 17, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Inderlanda3 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:20 pm

Seriously protecting graves there is so many things we can focus on.

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The Unfounded
Attaché
 
Posts: 98
Founded: Oct 07, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Unfounded » Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:44 pm

"We voted against. We compost the remains of the dead, and this would make things rather burdensome."
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Fishy Apples
Secretary
 
Posts: 30
Founded: Feb 10, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fishy Apples » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:30 pm

We the people of The Bunny Fire voted against this because it infringes on the rights of treasure hunters, cannibals, necromancers, and real estate developers everywhere. It also makes it more difficult for governments to recycle the buried corpses for their basic resources.
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Wayneactia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 384
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Corporate Bordello

Postby Wayneactia » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:36 pm

Inderlanda3 wrote:Seriously protecting graves there is so many things we can focus on.


Such as?

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Kranostav
Envoy
 
Posts: 276
Founded: Apr 01, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kranostav » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:05 pm

TNP's MoWAA IFV on Treatment of Deceased for your reading pleasure ---> https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1242673
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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5100
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:32 am

The Unfounded wrote:"We voted against. We compost the remains of the dead, and this would make things rather burdensome."

(OOC: Composting is allowed so far as it is done before the deceased is buried, since then you are not mutilating the grave, only the body.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Neo Kalashnikov
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Jul 31, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Kalashnikov » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:49 am

Kenmoria wrote:
The Unfounded wrote:"We voted against. We compost the remains of the dead, and this would make things rather burdensome."

(OOC: Composting is allowed so far as it is done before the deceased is buried, since then you are not mutilating the grave, only the body.)

Yes but it also states that you must give the deceased the opportunity to Opt Out of things such as Composting, Organ Harvesting Etcetera. It's all under clause 4.

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New Bremerton
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 427
Founded: Jul 20, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Bremerton » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:03 am

Kranostav wrote:TNP's MoWAA IFV on Treatment of Deceased for your reading pleasure ---> https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1242673


OOC: Per the IFV, I'm changing my vote to against.

IC: We are amply persuaded by TNP's IFV recommending a no vote and will be changing our vote to AGAINST.

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5100
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:08 am

Neo Kalashnikov wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Composting is allowed so far as it is done before the deceased is buried, since then you are not mutilating the grave, only the body.)

Yes but it also states that you must give the deceased the opportunity to Opt Out of things such as Composting, Organ Harvesting Etcetera. It's all under clause 4.

(OOC: However, clause 4c contains an exception for a ‘compelling situation’, which is vague enough that any government could exploit it via creative compliance.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:04 am

The Evil Dark Empire of Evil Darkness wrote:Why aren't we advocating for necrophilia yet?

OOC: Because this isn't the NSG.

The Unfounded wrote:"We voted against. We compost the remains of the dead, and this would make things rather burdensome."

IC: "That is actually still allowed under the proposal. Just chop the bodies up before putting them in a compostor."
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Takasor
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Aug 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Takasor » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:58 am

Lmao.... What even is this.......?????

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Wakazia
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Dec 11, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wakazia » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:17 am

Neo Kalashnikov wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: Composting is allowed so far as it is done before the deceased is buried, since then you are not mutilating the grave, only the body.)

Yes but it also states that you must give the deceased the opportunity to Opt Out of things such as Composting, Organ Harvesting Etcetera. It's all under clause 4.


Agreed

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The New California Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18393
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:20 am

Against. Even more so now that I received a telegram from the author accusing me of being a lemming for voting against it. You poisoned the well author, you poisoned the well.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13738
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:20 am

Wakazia wrote:
Neo Kalashnikov wrote:Yes but it also states that you must give the deceased the opportunity to Opt Out of things such as Composting, Organ Harvesting Etcetera. It's all under clause 4.

Agreed

OOC: Actually it only says they need to be allowed to opt out of "scientific or medicinal use of organs or tissues". Composting is an agricultural use of nutrients and so that doesn't apply.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

User avatar
DACOROMANIA
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 199
Founded: Mar 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby DACOROMANIA » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:35 am

Unfortunately, this resolution creates many conflicts in laws and international. Therefore, I and a majority of my region voted against.
Before to propose a new resolution on the same subject, please, take in consideration our recommendation to make a better resolution that do not infringe both the human rights and the laws in conflict.
Leader of DACOROMANIA, Founder of Roman Byzantine Union.

I wanted to save human race and to build a new nation/state, with ideals like human rights, peace and prosperity for all despite of any difference, avoiding the tyranny and preserving the liberty. Also you and we can save and unite the Earth, then going interstellar. Now I'm left alone even by family. Perhaps nobody cares. I wanted to do something important in life before to die, something that may really count.
I'm so alone man on Earth and I see how the world may fall into chaos. All looks irrational and immoral. It's a pain to not be able to do anything and to be surrounded by barbarians.

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5608
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:00 am

This is an important issue and I’m surprised to see the resolution getting annihilated on the voting floor despite its flaws.
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but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5100
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:33 am

DACOROMANIA wrote:Unfortunately, this resolution creates many conflicts in laws and international. Therefore, I and a majority of my region voted against.
Before to propose a new resolution on the same subject, please, take in consideration our recommendation to make a better resolution that do not infringe both the human rights and the laws in conflict.

(OOC: Could you highlight the laws in conflict with this proposal? That sounds as though you are suggesting duplication or contradictions, which would be grounds for a legality challenge.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Finappa
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Oct 27, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Finappa » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:25 pm

:? :blink:
An interesting resolution.
Last edited by Finappa on Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Agrosia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Feb 26, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Agrosia Votes Nay

Postby Agrosia » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:38 pm

"Esteemed members of the General Assembly,

After a careful and prudent review of the proposal at hand, the Government of Agrosia has determined it to be in the best interest of both the people of Agrosia, and of the world, if this resolution were defeated. Whilst agreeing fully that the rights/wishes of the deceased ought to be upheld, we recognize that poorer nations may lack the necessary resources to fully enforce this resolution.

Further, while we have laws in Agrosia that provide the deceased with certain inalienable rights, ground burial was prohibited in the late 1980s due to a lack of space for cemeteries. We feel that there is potential that this legislation, as currently written, could allow Agrosian citizens to challenge the burial ban in court, or that various Inspectors General within Agrosia would be forced to cite this crucial national law as being non-compliant with WA standards. In an effort to preserve necessary rule of law within our own nation, we are compelled to vote against this resolution."

Anthony O'Connell
Special Attaché to the General Assembly

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