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[PASSED] Don't Kill the Poor Act

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Arasi Luvasa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:08 pm

United Free States of America wrote:The United Free States of America Strongly opposes this proposal due to the fact that state-sanctioned elimination of certain groups or individuals that are Parasites to the state, for example, liberals/millennials that don't work and leech on welfare, these groups need to be eliminated so they don't sink the economy.

- United Free States Of America


"So just kill off your entire future working force, great job that was so smart. If someone refuses to work, I believe current legislation permits you to not subsidize their sloth so your argument seems more like a baby whining that they cannot just up and murder whoever they want."
Ambassador Ariela Galadriel Maria Mirase
37 year old Arch-bishop of the Arasi Christian Church (also the youngest ever arch-bishop and fifth woman in the church hierarchy). An attractive but stern woman with a strict adherence to religious and moral ethical codes, also somewhat of an optimist. She was recently appointed to the position following the election of Adrian Midnight to the position of Patriarch.

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Freepublican
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Freepublican » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:00 am

Requires member states to render aid to individuals escaping genocide on the basis of their economic status or employment, and to consider such persons refugees.

I am not changing my immigration laws. All individuals must be vetted. I will vote against. (Not that it really matters at this point.)

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Caracasus
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7918
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Caracasus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:34 am

Freepublican wrote:Requires member states to render aid to individuals escaping genocide on the basis of their economic status or employment, and to consider such persons refugees.

I am not changing my immigration laws. All individuals must be vetted. I will vote against. (Not that it really matters at this point.)


Aid ambassador.

That doesn't mean you have to let in those scary traumatized families fleeing mass murder. It could mean providing food, water and medical supplies or chartering a boat to take them to a nation slightly less petrified of a group of malnourished children, for instance.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



Issues editor, not a moderator.

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Ragnaria
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ragnaria » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:43 am

Proposal seems totally reasonable, voted yes.

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United Catholic Districts
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Oct 22, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby United Catholic Districts » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:04 am

This name is too generic

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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7914
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:01 am

Freepublican wrote:Requires member states to render aid to individuals escaping genocide on the basis of their economic status or employment, and to consider such persons refugees.

I am not changing my immigration laws. All individuals must be vetted. I will vote against. (Not that it really matters at this point.)

(OOC: If this passes, your immigration laws would ideally change to reflect that new piece of legislation. You could choose not to do that, but it is important to noncomply in ways that take into account GA resolutions about noncompliance. Also, this proposal doesn’t even require you to let people fleeing genomics into your nation anyway, just that aid is provided. As there are no qualifiers, said aid could just be providing water bottles to the thirsty.)
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
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A Cornstar
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 119
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby A Cornstar » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:06 am

We will comply (as this resolution is set to pass) by means of enforcing sectors according to ethnicity. This may lead to more wars but We understand an undignified peace is a death that is worse than to simply die in the flesh.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Vercingetorix was a martyr tho
I use some NS stats, unironic feudal socialist, I don't know everything, I just know better.
People say 'penny for your thoughts' but an unsolicited opinion is 'adding my two cents', so much for supply and demand.

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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 853
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 am

Truth be told, the only reason this resolution has even a fraction of the support it currently enjoys is because of its admittedly catchy, but utterly nondescriptive title. Just another terrible resolution that looks set to be passed by the General Assembly.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Lord Dominator
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8900
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:09 pm

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Truth be told, the only reason this resolution has even a fraction of the support it currently enjoys is because of its admittedly catchy, but utterly nondescriptive title. Just another terrible resolution that looks set to be passed by the General Assembly.

Or perhaps, people in general and the large regions in particular have determined that the proposal is a good one.

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Caracasus
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7918
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Caracasus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:15 pm

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Truth be told, the only reason this resolution has even a fraction of the support it currently enjoys is because of its admittedly catchy, but utterly nondescriptive title. Just another terrible resolution that looks set to be passed by the General Assembly.


It's a very sensible, well crafted resolution that closes an unfortunate loophole in existing resolutions on the subject seamlessly. The catchy title sure helps too, but it'd likely pass without.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



Issues editor, not a moderator.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 16989
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:16 pm

"I'm not sure what the big deal is here. We have a law on genocide that is not exclusive. This proposal fills a gap in the non-exclusive law on genocide. I agree that I cant think of a single reason why a nation would exterminate the poor, but nor do I see why genocide is ever a genuine choice.

"Legislative bodies exist to write new laws but also to review shortcomings of old ones. That's what the delegation from Wallenburg did. Let's not make it into a bad thing."

His Worshipfulness, the Most Unscrupulous, Plainly Deceitful, Dissembling, Strategicly Calculating Lord GA Secretariat, Authority on All Existence, Arbiter of Right, Toxic Globalist Dog, Dark Psychic Vampire, and Chief Populist Elitist!
Separatist Peoples should RESIGN!

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Ru-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1112
Founded: Aug 01, 2016
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Ru- » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:22 pm

ShrewLlamaLand wrote:Truth be told, the only reason this resolution has even a fraction of the support it currently enjoys is because of its admittedly catchy, but utterly nondescriptive title. Just another terrible resolution that looks set to be passed by the General Assembly.


We disagree. We saw the title first and our view on the resolution was very negative, then we saw the author and (with our apologies to them) that didn't really help matters. Then we actually read the resolution and voted in favor.

The unprofessional title is very unfortunate, but the body of a resolution is what really matters and this is a solid, well written resolution that deserves our support. Whether you like it or not there was a loophole in our previous resolutions on these subjects and it needed to be addressed. This resolution does so quite painlessly.
Last edited by Ru- on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A civilization with an over 3,000 year history of lizard people killing each other and enslaving everyone else. Now they've finally calmed down and formed a modern westernized constitutional monarchy. (long live Emperor Yoshio!)

Note: Any factbook entries over a year old are severely out of date and may be subject to extreme revision and retconning soon. If you have questions on anything about Ru, please feel free to ask.

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HerpDeDerp
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 199
Founded: Sep 18, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby HerpDeDerp » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:50 pm

A cornstar wrote:We will comply (as this resolution is set to pass) by means of enforcing sectors according to ethnicity. This may lead to more wars but We understand an undignified peace is a death that is worse than to simply die in the flesh.

You are a genius! We were going to leave the WA after this, but now we have a solution.
I dont use NS stats

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Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22872
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:56 pm

HerpDeDerp wrote:
A cornstar wrote:We will comply (as this resolution is set to pass) by means of enforcing sectors according to ethnicity. This may lead to more wars but We understand an undignified peace is a death that is worse than to simply die in the flesh.

You are a genius! We were going to leave the WA after this, but now we have a solution.

*cough*
While she had no regrets about throwing the lever to douse her husband's mistress in molten gold, Blanche did feel a pang of conscience for the innocent bystanders whose proximity had caused them to suffer gilt by association.

King of Snark, Real Piece of Work, Metabolizer of Oxygen, Old Man from The East Pacific, by the Malevolence of Her Infinite Terribleness Catherine Gratwick the Sole and True Claimant to the Bears Armed Vacancy, Protector of the Realm

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United Free States of America
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Jul 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby United Free States of America » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:34 pm

Arasi Luvasa wrote:
United Free States of America wrote:The United Free States of America Strongly opposes this proposal due to the fact that state-sanctioned elimination of certain groups or individuals that are Parasites to the state, for example, liberals/millennials that don't work and leech on welfare, these groups need to be eliminated so they don't sink the economy.

- United Free States Of America


"So just kill off your entire future working force, great job that was so smart. If someone refuses to work, I believe current legislation permits you to not subsidize their sloth so your argument seems more like a baby whining that they cannot just up and murder whoever they want."


That's the complete opposite of what I meant this proposal doesn't allow a nation to continue population control programs to ensure their resources aren't exhausted on undesirable citizens that don't contribute to the gene pool or society as a whole. For example, this proposal doesn't go into detail about what to do with the physically/mentally disabled when it's no longer viable to continue care? Are we supposed to dump them in the streets or humanely end their pain? Also, we are supposed to let in refugees that we don't know anything about, they could be a threat to national security or should we let these refugees take advantage of our welfare programs and not work? No thanks, these type of matters should be the responsibility of a nation alone without interference so we can continue to make our nations great.
Last edited by United Free States of America on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Renolia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 126
Founded: Sep 15, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Renolia » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:25 pm

Wouldn't "forceful isolation of a group in designated areas" qualify something like using the police to enforce laws regarding designated smoking areas to be considered "genocide"?

Similarly, "removal of a group from designated areas" could consider the enforcement of laws regarding usage of sex-specific public bathrooms to be "genocide" against, for example, men who attempt to enter female bathrooms.

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Arasi Luvasa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:22 pm

United Free States of America wrote:
Arasi Luvasa wrote:
"So just kill off your entire future working force, great job that was so smart. If someone refuses to work, I believe current legislation permits you to not subsidize their sloth so your argument seems more like a baby whining that they cannot just up and murder whoever they want."


That's the complete opposite of what I meant this proposal doesn't allow a nation to continue population control programs to ensure their resources aren't exhausted on undesirable citizens that don't contribute to the gene pool or society as a whole. For example, this proposal doesn't go into detail about what to do with the physically/mentally disabled when it's no longer viable to continue care? Are we supposed to dump them in the streets or humanely end their pain? Also, we are supposed to let in refugees that we don't know anything about, they could be a threat to national security or should we let these refugees take advantage of our welfare programs and not work? No thanks, these type of matters should be the responsibility of a nation alone without interference so we can continue to make our nations great.


Look at Wallenburgs last post.
Ambassador Ariela Galadriel Maria Mirase
37 year old Arch-bishop of the Arasi Christian Church (also the youngest ever arch-bishop and fifth woman in the church hierarchy). An attractive but stern woman with a strict adherence to religious and moral ethical codes, also somewhat of an optimist. She was recently appointed to the position following the election of Adrian Midnight to the position of Patriarch.

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Enjuku
Envoy
 
Posts: 240
Founded: Oct 10, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Enjuku » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:00 pm

Most of this resolution makes sense and we commend initiatives that try to target genocide in all its forms. We're concerned though that the term "group" is too ill-defined when contrasted with "individual", and therefore leaves too broad a gap for interpretation.

Labor disputes are especially at issue here. Line 2 defines genocide as including "removal of a group from designated areas". Line 3 makes this act committed for reasons of employment "crimes against humanity". This unnecessarily amplifies to the level of genocide any state policing or forced removal of workers on strike, staging workplace walkouts, or holding protests concerned with their employment status. This resolution fails to define the muddy area between a group and an individual in line 2.

We have here a slippery slope to issues overlooked by this resolution being upgraded to crimes against humanity. It is our sincere hope that this gap will be addressed in the near future. While we object to the bright line language in lines 2 and 3 and wish for further clarification, we nontheless will vote in favor of the resolution due to its overall recognition and concern for preventing genocide at-large.

Best regards,
Francesca Medellín
Foreign Minister for Enjuku
Enjukan Ministry of Foreign Affairs
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Cosmopolitan borovan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1032
Founded: Jan 18, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:04 pm

Don't Kill the Poor Act was passed 14,051 votes to 3,344

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A Cornstar
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 119
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby A Cornstar » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:14 pm

Wallenburg wrote:
HerpDeDerp wrote:You are a genius! We were going to leave the WA after this, but now we have a solution.

*cough*


We see no contradiction here.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Vercingetorix was a martyr tho
I use some NS stats, unironic feudal socialist, I don't know everything, I just know better.
People say 'penny for your thoughts' but an unsolicited opinion is 'adding my two cents', so much for supply and demand.

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Lord Dominator
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8900
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:29 pm

"Congratulations ambassador on the rousing success in voting."

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ShrewLlamaLand
Diplomat
 
Posts: 853
Founded: Nov 30, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby ShrewLlamaLand » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Of course, the resolution has just passed in the General Assembly. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
ShrewLlamaLand
Confederation of Corrupt Dictators | Commission to the World Assembly

"The flag once raised will never fall!"

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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7914
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:32 am

A cornstar wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:*cough*


We see no contradiction here.

(OOC: CoCR bans discrimination on the basis of ethnicity, and enforcing sectors according to race would be a pretty clear-cut method of discriminating on the basis of race.)
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

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Arasi Luvasa
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Aug 29, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Arasi Luvasa » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:51 am

A cornstar wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:*cough*


We see no contradiction here.

Also bans discrimination based on disability if I am reading it correctly.
Ambassador Ariela Galadriel Maria Mirase
37 year old Arch-bishop of the Arasi Christian Church (also the youngest ever arch-bishop and fifth woman in the church hierarchy). An attractive but stern woman with a strict adherence to religious and moral ethical codes, also somewhat of an optimist. She was recently appointed to the position following the election of Adrian Midnight to the position of Patriarch.

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A Cornstar
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 119
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby A Cornstar » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:46 am

Article 1, clause c)
"All inhabitants of member states have the right not to be and indeed must not be discriminated against on grounds including sex, race, ethnicity, nationality, skin color, language, economic or cultural background, physical or mental disability or condition, religion or belief system, sexual orientation or sexual identity, or any other arbitrarily assigned and reductive categorisation which may be used for the purposes of discrimination, except for compelling practical purposes, such as hiring only female staff to work with battered women who have sought refuge from their abusers."

Article 2, clause a)
"Unfair and unreasonable discrimination, on the grounds outlined in clause c) of article 1 of this resolution, in private employment, housing, education, employment benefits, compensations and access to services provided to the general public shall be prohibited by all member states."

Article 2, clause d)
"Nothing in this article shall be construed as to deny additional or stronger protections against discrimination and abuse enacted by member states."

All peoples have a right to a homeland that continues to be so.
Romano-Celtic Americans, Vercingetorix was a martyr tho
I use some NS stats, unironic feudal socialist, I don't know everything, I just know better.
People say 'penny for your thoughts' but an unsolicited opinion is 'adding my two cents', so much for supply and demand.

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