NATION

PASSWORD

(Abondoned) Predator Managment

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

(Abondoned) Predator Managment

Postby The Inland Emprie » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:59 pm

Predator Management Act
Category: Environmental
AOE: Agriculture
Whereas,
The World Assembly Recognizes the ability of all nations to manage what they may deem as Predators,

Whereas
The World Assembly also recognizes that the safety of the citizens and their property is important to the World Assembly,

Whereas,
Many nations have unique climates and unique creatures,

Therefore,
The World Assembley recognizes carnivorous animals that may harm citizen property or safety, excluding pets, as predators

Whereas,
Hereby, subject to any limitations set by earlier resolutions that are still in force,

Whereas,
For the purposes of this resolution, the World Assembly allows all predator management techniques deemed universally humane,

Whereas,
Humane in this document is to mean: When an animal is either killed or captured instantly or rendered insensible until death or capture ensues, without pain, suffering or distress,

Whereas,
No hunting of predators may eradicate a endangered or non-endangered predator,

Whereas,
The hunting or capture of predators may not infringe on or harm indigenous tribes or indigenous nations hunting rights if the depend on the predator as a food source
Whereas,
A sapient being threatening another sapient being is not included in this bill

Therefore,
The World Assembly makes it mandatory that all nations must manage all predatory animals as listed by the World Assembly if they pose a significant threat to citizen safety or property with the management techniques listed above,
Last edited by The Inland Emprie on Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 11 times in total.

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:05 pm

The Inland Emprie wrote:Predator Management Act
Category: Environmental

WHEARAS,
The World Assembly Recognizes the ability of all nations to manage what they may deem as Predators,
WHERAS,
The World Assembly also recognizes that the safety of the citizens and their property is important to the World Assembly,
WHEARAS,
The World Assembly recognizes that Wolves, Pumas, Bobcats and Bears all pose a significant threat to the safety of citizens and there property,
WHEARAS,
The World Assembly deems these items as proper management techniques
1.Non-Lethal
A. Fladry
B. Livestock Guardian Animals
C. Foxlights
D. Squawk Boxes
E. And Others
2.Lethal
A. Killing of predator
THEREFORE,
The World Assembly makes it mandatory that all nations must manage all predatory animals as listed by the World Assembly if they pose a significant threat to human safety or property with the management techniques listed above,
THEREFORE,
The World Assembly approves the Predator Management Act.

Feel free to criticize, ect.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5227
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:37 pm

"Add line breaks after each clause to make the proposal clearer. Also “human safety” is very discriminatory to the thousands of other sapient beings in the World Assembly."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7336
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:04 am

Miller: "This proposal needlessly restricts 'predatory animals' to those listed in the resolution, leaving no way to manage animals such as carnivorous birds, lions, tigers, cheetahs, dinosaurs, Blast-Ended Skrewts, Rathtars, etc. These predatory animals are also critical in maintaining population control for herbivorous animals that pose a threat to agriculture."

Opposed in its current form. I suggest adopting a more generalized definition.
Last edited by Kaboomlandia on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:41 am

Kenmoria wrote:"Add line breaks after each clause to make the proposal clearer. Also “human safety” is very discriminatory to the thousands of other sapient beings in the World Assembly."

Show me what you mean by line breaks.
Will edit.

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:42 am

Kaboomlandia wrote:Miller: "This proposal needlessly restricts 'predatory animals' to those listed in the resolution, leaving no way to manage animals such as carnivorous birds, lions, tigers, cheetahs, dinosaurs, Blast-Ended Skrewts, Rathtars, etc. These predatory animals are also critical in maintaining population control for herbivorous animals that pose a threat to agriculture."

Opposed in its current form. I suggest adopting a more generalized definition.

I was trying to be specific, but is see your point.
A overpopulation of predators is also harmful to agriculture, such as ranching.
Last edited by The Inland Emprie on Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jarish Inyo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 981
Founded: Jul 09, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Jarish Inyo » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:13 am

Opposed. We will deal with dangerous animals as we deem fit. We can’t just let animals that maim and kill our citizens roaming around.
Ambassador Nameless
Empire of Jaresh Inyo

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:21 am

Jarish Inyo wrote:Opposed. We will deal with dangerous animals as we deem fit. We can’t just let animals that maim and kill our citizens roaming around.

This bill is to manage those predators. There are lethal and non-lethal options. The entire point is to manage those creatures that maim your citizens.

User avatar
Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18636
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:41 am

OOC
Contradicts GA Resolution #267 'Sensible Limits on Hunting', and arguably also #66 'Endangered Species Protection'.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:52 am

Bears Armed wrote:OOC
Contradicts GA Resolution #267 'Sensible Limits on Hunting', and arguably also #66 'Endangered Species Protection'.

Is there any way that this can be construed so that it can be legal? AKA will the changes make it legal?
Last edited by The Inland Emprie on Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
New-Brussels
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 61
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New-Brussels » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:26 am

The Inland Emprie wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:OOC
Contradicts GA Resolution #267 'Sensible Limits on Hunting', and arguably also #66 'Endangered Species Protection'.

Is there any way that this can be construed so that it can be legal? AKA will the changes make it legal?


It is going to be very hard to both retain your intent and avoid breaking the rules due to the very nature of your proposal.
From the Rafterian Partenariat Department of Legislation,
His Holiness Todd Rafter, President of Honor

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:30 am

New-Brussels wrote:
The Inland Emprie wrote:Is there any way that this can be construed so that it can be legal? AKA will the changes make it legal?


It is going to be very hard to both retain your intent and avoid breaking the rules due to the very nature of your proposal.

Yuup.....

User avatar
Tinhampton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5097
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:33 am

The Inland Emprie wrote:
New-Brussels wrote:
It is going to be very hard to both retain your intent and avoid breaking the rules due to the very nature of your proposal.

Yuup.....

For the record, if you wish to abandon your draft (rather than just carry on with futility), change the (Draft) in your title to (Abandoned).
* Mayor: Saffron Howard (UCP; libertarian)
* Foreign Minister: Ryan Terrence (TLP)
* WA Delegate-Ambassador: Alexander Smith (NatSov)
* WA Assistant: Bianca Venkman (IntFed)
* Nat'l Football Team Manager: Harta-Yunal Den (QUS)
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (trigram TIN, pop. 319,372) — OOC: Who is she, really?
Author: SC#250, SC#251, SC#267
Football: Cup of Harmony 73 Champions - KPB rank 37th (18.05pts), UICA rank 59th (6pts)

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:47 am

Tinhampton wrote:
The Inland Emprie wrote:Yuup.....

For the record, if you wish to abandon your draft (rather than just carry on with futility), change the (Draft) in your title to (Abandoned).

ill persevere for a little longer.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5227
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:13 am

"What about non-lethal tactics not mentioned in clause 1? There needs to be something to account for those."
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:34 pm

Kenmoria wrote:"What about non-lethal tactics not mentioned in clause 1? There needs to be something to account for those."

It is impossible to list all non lethal deterrents. I broadened the scope a little bit more.

User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8953
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 pm

Now, this is the wrong way to do whereas.

Whereas,
Blah

Is nowhere near as consistent or pretty as how actual legislatures do it:

Whereas blah.

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Dastardly villain providing free services to the community sans remuneration

User avatar
New-Brussels
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 61
Founded: Mar 27, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New-Brussels » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:57 pm

WHEARAS,
The World Assembly deems these items as proper management techniques
1.Non-Lethal
A. Fladry
B. Livestock Guardian Animals
C. Foxlights
D. Squawk Boxes
E. And Others That Do Not Harm The Predator(s)
2.Lethal
A. Killing of predator


"We believe a more concise way to put your intent would be :

'Whereas for the purposes of this resolution, the World Assembly allows all predator management techniques deemed universally humane;'

And even then, you might need to elaborate on what makes a predator management technique universally humane."

OOC : I pray for you that such an elaboration will not conflict with current law.
Last edited by New-Brussels on Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.
From the Rafterian Partenariat Department of Legislation,
His Holiness Todd Rafter, President of Honor

User avatar
New Mushroom Kingdom
Minister
 
Posts: 3451
Founded: Jul 16, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby New Mushroom Kingdom » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:43 pm

New-Brussels wrote:
"We believe a more concise way to put your intent would be :

'Whereas for the purposes of this resolution, the World Assembly allows all predator management techniques deemed universally humane;'

And even then, you might need to elaborate on what makes a predator management technique universally humane."

OOC : I pray for you that such an elaboration will not conflict with current law.

Flicking through the proposal, both in it's current and previous forms, Holly notes that with the original exclusionary definition of predator replaced, this list is also out of place. Since it admits practically any management technique, it may as well say that instead of wasting space 'limiting' management techniques but including an 'other' option in an otherwise very specific list. However, the replacement definition of predator isn't very good either - the previous one presumed that nations only had the specific predators mentioned, this one goes too far in the other direction by making the label 'predator' too broad.

After she's done, Holly stands up to give her comments on the proposal, she starts by saying "Well, neither I nor the government have anything particularly against this idea, so tenative support assuming you take on feedback and the final draft has no problematic issues. That said, this does have a couple problems, even with the attempt to fix one. I'll happily quickly go through them for you though."

WHEARAS,
The World Assembly Recognizes the ability of all nations to manage what they may deem as Predators,
WHERAS,
The World Assembly also recognizes that the safety of the citizens and their property is important to the World Assembly,
WHERAS,
Many nations have unique climates and unique creatures,

"No objections to these clauses, especially as they're just a fluffy preamble for this proposal."

WHERAS,
The World Assembly recognizes that all carnivorous animals excluding dogs, cats and other domesticated pets, are deemed predators

"Your previous definition was far too restrictive, and I appreciate your attempt to fix it but this simply goes too far in the opposite direction, making many more species predators than really should be. An easy example of this definition's flaws is that it under it humans and likely many other non-human sapient species such as our Toads or Yoshis would technically be predators, since they're carnivorous as part of eating both plants and meat. This is neither intended nor desired, but sadly nothing better immediately springs to mind."

WHEARAS,
The World Assembly deems these items as proper management techniques
1.Non-Lethal
A. Fladry
B. Livestock Guardian Animals
C. Foxlights
D. Squawk Boxes
E. And Others That Do Not Harm The Predator(s)
2.Lethal
A. Killing of predator

"Your other problem is with this clause, it's both very broad and very specific at the same time. If you're going to have an explicit list of allowed management techniques, it defeats your point to have an 'other' option. However, I don't think that is a good idea to include in this proposal, it would just waste space as the WA does not need to have this information in the proposal. As for a potential replacement, I agree with the previous suggestion made by someone else. Not explicitly listing the techniques doesn't waste space listing many extant techniques, while preserving and extending the original intent by mandating all procedures are humane, or at least considered to be that."

WHEARAS,
The World Assembly recognizes the legality of GA Resolution #267 Sensible Limits on Hunting, and also GA Resolution #66 Endangered Species Protection. As to not violate these bills, no predator management may eradicate an endangered or, non-endangered species and follow all other regulations listed in the aforementioned bills.
THEREFORE,
The World Assembly makes it mandatory that all nations must manage all predatory animals as listed by the World Assembly if they pose a significant threat to citizen safety or property with the management techniques listed above,
THEREFORE,
The World Assembly approves the Predator Management Act.

"No objections, though in my personal opinion the last clause is entirely redundant and just wastes space. All proposals that win the vote in the GA are approved, so there's no point stating it in the proposal itself."
NationStates Belongs to All, Gameplay, Roleplay, and Nonplay Alike
Every NationStates Community Member, from Raider Kings to Brony Queens Make Us Awesome.

Embassy Request Thread NS section of my wiki-thing Questions?
DEFCON 5. Never forget Z-Day. 1/4/13. 'Corporate Police State' fits just as well as the actual WA category.
There are no magic mushrooms in this nation. Seriously.

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:06 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Now, this is the wrong way to do whereas.

Whereas,
Blah

Is nowhere near as consistent or pretty as how actual legislatures do it:

Whereas blah.

Lol. will change

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:16 pm

The Inland Emprie wrote:Predator Management Act
Category: Environmental

Whereas,
The World Assembly Recognizes the ability of all nations to manage what they may deem as Predators,

Whereas
The World Assembly also recognizes that the safety of the citizens and their property is important to the World Assembly,

Whereas,
Many nations have unique climates and unique creatures,

Therefore,
The World Assembley recognizes carnivorous animals that may harm human property or safety, excluding pets

Whereas,
For the purposes of this resolution, the World Assembly allows all predator management techniques deemed universally humane

Whereas,
Humane in this document is to mean: "Not creating additional or unneeded pain to the predators to be deterred or removed.

Whereas,
The World Assembly recognizes the legality of GA Resolution #267 Sensible Limits on Hunting, and also GA Resolution #66 Endangered Species Protection. As to not violate these bills, no predator management may eradicate an endangered or, non-endangered species and follow all other regulations listed in the aforementioned bills.

Therefore,
The World Assembly makes it mandatory that all nations must manage all predatory animals as listed by the World Assembly if they pose a significant threat to citizen safety or property with the management techniques listed above,

THANK YOU TO ALL WHO HAVE HELPED REVISE THIS DOC. SO FAR

User avatar
Kaboomlandia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7336
Founded: May 22, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kaboomlandia » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:23 pm

I'm pretty sure the House of Cards rule is still a thing - resolutions can't depend on other resolutions.
In=character, Kaboomlandia is a World Assembly member and abides by its resolutions. If this nation isn't in the WA, it's for practical reasons.
Author of GA #371 and SC #208, #214, #226, #227, #230, #232
Co-Author of SC #204
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your legitimacy, Kaboom, has melted away in my eyes. I couldn't have believed that only a shadow of your once brilliant WA career remains."

User avatar
Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5227
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:23 pm

"The last “WHEREAS” looks to violate the House of Cards rule. How can you acknowledge the legality of a resolution that has since been repealed?"
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Imperium Anglorum
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8953
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:52 am

Come on, Kenmoria. (And I guess, a small update for Kaboom, since he's been gone a while at least.) We've had this debate already; the sensible wing already won: viewtopic.php?p=33109496#p33109496 and viewtopic.php?p=33123215#p33123215

EDIT: Kaboom, there have been some changes vis-à-vis ruleset interpretation since the last time you've been active on the GA forums, I believe. You may want to consult my catalogue thereof : http://bit.ly/gensec-catalogue . I promise it has nothing to do with Bitely.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

Author: 1 SC and 28 GA resolutions
Maintainer: GA Passed Resolutions
Developer: Communiqué and InfoEurope
Delegate for Europe
Out-of-character unless marked otherwise
Ideological Bulwark 285, WALL delegate
Dastardly villain providing free services to the community sans remuneration

User avatar
The Inland Emprie
Secretary
 
Posts: 38
Founded: Apr 04, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Inland Emprie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:13 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Come on, Kenmoria. (And I guess, a small update for Kaboom, since he's been gone a while at least.) We've had this debate already; the sensible wing already won: viewtopic.php?p=33109496#p33109496 and viewtopic.php?p=33123215#p33123215

EDIT: Kaboom, there have been some changes vis-à-vis ruleset interpretation since the last time you've been active on the GA forums, I believe. You may want to consult my catalogue thereof : http://bit.ly/gensec-catalogue . I promise it has nothing to do with Bitely.

Sooo, I am not violating house of cards?

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General Assembly

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bananaistan, Mandalore III

Advertisement

Remove ads