[ABANDONED] Protection of Primitive Habitable Bodies

[Wrapper]

IV. Type 1 Civilizations as civilizations that can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star

A Type I civilization—also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star.

Yes, that certainly looks like it was copied. Definitely needs some revision.

[The First German Order]

IV. Type 1 Civilizations as civilizations that can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star

A Type I civilization—also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star.

Yes, that certainly looks like it was copied. Definitely needs some revision.

OOC: Definitions one and two are also copied.

[Aureumterra]

IV. Type 1 Civilizations as civilizations that can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star

A Type I civilization—also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star.

Yes, that certainly looks like it was copied. Definitely needs some revision.

Edited it to make it original, and to Auraukar’s point too.

[Aureumterra]

Yes, that certainly looks like it was copied. Definitely needs some revision.

OOC: Definitions one and two are also copied.

OOC: And the definitions are the best way to say what I’m trying to say

[The First German Order]

OOC: Definitions one and two are also copied.

OOC: And the definitions are the best way to say what I’m trying to say

OOC: What are do you mean by this?

[Aureumterra]

OOC: And the definitions are the best way to say what I’m trying to say

OOC: What are do you mean by this?

Those definitions best show what I’m trying to say

[The First German Order]

OOC: What are do you mean by this?

Those definitions best show what I’m trying to say

OOC: Come up with your own definitions. Plagiarism will get a proposal marked illegal or discarded and it’ll get you kicked out of the WA.

[Aureumterra]

Those definitions best show what I’m trying to say

OOC: Come up with your own definitions. Plagiarism will get a proposal marked illegal or discarded and it’ll get you kicked out of the WA.

OOC: What do you mean they are copied anyways? Sentient Beings or Habitable Bodies don’t even have online definitions, so not plagiarism

[The First German Order]

OOC: Come up with your own definitions. Plagiarism will get a proposal marked illegal or discarded and it’ll get you kicked out of the WA.

OOC: What do you mean they are copied anyways? Sentient Beings or Habitable Bodies don’t even have online definitions, so not plagiarism

OOC: While the words themselves may not be online, the definitions you used are.
Wikipedia:

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively.

Also Wikipedia:

Planetary habitability is the measure of a planet's or a natural satellite's potential to have habitable environments hospitable to life, or its ability to generate life endogenously.

So not only are you plagerizing the definitions, but you’re using them for the wrong words.

[Aureumterra]

OOC: What do you mean they are copied anyways? Sentient Beings or Habitable Bodies don’t even have online definitions, so not plagiarism

OOC: While the words themselves may not be online, the definitions you used are.
Wikipedia:

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively.

Also Wikipedia:

Planetary habitability is the measure of a planet's or a natural satellite's potential to have habitable environments hospitable to life, or its ability to generate life endogenously.

So not only are you plagerizing the definitions, but you’re using them for the wrong words.

Which makes it technically not plagiarism

[The First German Order]

OOC: While the words themselves may not be online, the definitions you used are.
Wikipedia:

Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively.

Also Wikipedia:

Planetary habitability is the measure of a planet's or a natural satellite's potential to have habitable environments hospitable to life, or its ability to generate life endogenously.

So not only are you plagerizing the definitions, but you’re using them for the wrong words.

Which makes it technically not plagiarism

OOC: That does not make it "technically not plagiarism" in any way, shape, or form.

[Aureumterra]

Which makes it technically not plagiarism

OOC: That does not make it “technically not plagiarism" in any way, shape, or form.

You can’t “use something for the wrong words” and call it plagiarism, because that makes it not plagiarism

[The First German Order]

OOC: That does not make it “technically not plagiarism" in any way, shape, or form.

You can’t “use something for the wrong words” and call it plagiarism, because that makes it not plagiarism

OOC: No, it doesn't. It's still words that were copy-pasted from another source without any credit. You can't use a definition from another source, even if it's for the wrong word, in a WA proposal.

[Aureumterra]

You can’t “use something for the wrong words” and call it plagiarism, because that makes it not plagiarism

OOC: No, it doesn't. It's still words that were copy-pasted from another source without any credit. You can’t use a definition from another source, even if it's for the wrong word, in a WA proposal.

So if wikipedia uses the word ‘the’, I have to give them credit if I want to use ‘the’ in my proposal?

[The First German Order]

OOC: No, it doesn't. It's still words that were copy-pasted from another source without any credit. You can’t use a definition from another source, even if it's for the wrong word, in a WA proposal.

So if wikipedia uses the word ‘the’, I have to give them credit if I want to use ‘the’ in my proposal?

OOC: No, because Wikipedia did not come up with the word "the", but they did come up with the definitions used in your proposal.

[Araraukar]

So if wikipedia uses the word ‘the’, I have to give them credit if I want to use ‘the’ in my proposal?

OOC: Give it up. FGO is often wrong but not on this one. Look at existing GA resolutions for the definition of "sapient being" or "sapience", TG their authors and ask if you can use the definition. Just don't use "sentient". A house cat or a mouse or a barasingha is sentient. RL humans are sentient and sapient. Also I'm not sure why you need to define sapience in the first place.

Also, if you're using "Type 1", then presumably there also exist "Type 2" and "Type 3" and probably more. I'd find some other way to express it anyway, regardless of plagiarism issues.

EDITs because damnit, can't write today.

[Aureumterra]

So if wikipedia uses the word ‘the’, I have to give them credit if I want to use ‘the’ in my proposal?

OOC: Give it up. FGO is often wrong but not on this one. Look at existing GA resolutions for the definition of "sapient being" or "sapience", TG their authors and ask if you can use the definition. Just don't use "sentient". A house cat or a mouse or a barasingha is sentient. RL humans are sentient and sapient. Also I'm not sure why you need to define sapience in the first place.

Also, if you're using "Type 1", then presumably there also exist "Type 2" and "Type 3" and probably more. I'd find some other way to express it anyway, regardless of plagiarism issues.

EDITs because damnit, can’t write today.

I already changed the type 1 definition, and I guess this counts as plagiarism, so I’ll change it.

[Aureumterra]

Alright, I changed the definitions so they mean basically the same thing but not a copy paste

[The First German Order]

Alright, I changed the definitions so they mean basically the same thing but not a copy paste

OOC: I'd recommend just scrapping the definitions and coming up with them from scratch. It'd be a lot easier to make them comprehensible.

[Aureumterra]

Alright, I changed the definitions so they mean basically the same thing but not a copy paste

OOC: I'd recommend just scrapping the definitions and coming up with them from scratch. It’d be a lot easier to make them comprehensible.

Well, these are really what I’m trying to describe, so I removed and/or added a few words so I get the same effect without a direct copy-paste

[Araraukar]

OOC post to use RL references.

RECOGNIZING the amount of primitive habitable bodies in the multiverse

Define terms before using them - in other words, don't use wordings like "primitive habitable bodies" in the preamble.

CONCERNED over the exploitation of these bodies by more advanced nations, often leading to severely negative consequences

What severely negative consequences?

BELIEVING that these planets have the right to remain untouched until sentient life develops

And if it never does? How do you know it will some day do that?

DEFINES for the purpose of this proposal

Good, except change "proposal" into "resolution".

I. Habitable Bodies as a planet’s or a natural satellite’s ability to generate all life endogenously

That doesn't read grammatically correct. Are you defining the bodies or the ability? Also, all life? Or just life that happens to develope on that celestial body? And how do you define "endogenously"? (Don't edit the draft, just answer in a post.) Hell, we don't know in RL if our kind of life got started on Earth!

II. Sentient beings as entities with the capacity to perceive or experience subjectively

Why do you need to define this at all? You don't actually use it in the active clauses.

III. Primitive Habitable Bodies as habitable bodies that do not have a native type 1 or greater civilization

You're still talking about "type 1" things. What are "type 2" and further numbers? Just scrap the numbers entirely. You seriously don't need them.

IV. Type 1 Civilizations as civilizations that can use and store energy which reaches its planet from its parent star

...so every civilization ever that has invented fire? (Energy from sunlight is used in photosynthesis to bind carbon from atmospheric carbon dioxide into organic compounds creating things, like, you know, wood, which, when burned, can be used for various purposes by sapient beings. Including, as RL humans have demonstrated, burning sapient beings.)

V. Native Civilizations as civilizations with indigenous origin or growth on a body

Define "indigenous" when it comes to civilizations? Actually, define "civilization", for that matter... Also, does this mean that things like Columbus "finding" the Americas would be banned under the clauses of this proposal? And lastly, what "growth on a body"? The wording makes me think of cancer.

VI. Small Scale Research activities as activities of limited size or extent with the purpose of research on local anomalies

Define "local"? Your backyard? Your city block? Your city? Your nation? Your continent? Your planet? Your solar system? Your star cluster? Your galaxy? Your galaxy cluster? (I hope you're aware that the galactic neighbourhood of our RL home galaxy is called the "Local Group"...) Also, in RL we humans can observe quite local phenomenae that happen on other planets in the same solar system - is that "small scale research"?

VII. Catysclasmic Events as events that could potentially wipe out all life on a habitable body

Typo. And also, why do you define this? Life on RL Earth has survived some seriously fucked up events, and since we're here, it means that life is bloody tenacious. You could easily wipe out all civilizations five times over and not come even close to wiping out all life. So, given that the exception at the end will do nothing to let you stop civilizations or even all higher lifeforms from going extinct, there's really no use for either that exception or this definition.

MANDATES the World Assembly and its member nations to:

You really just need the one word.

I. Limit all but small scale research activities on primitive habitable bodies

So sending rovers over or dropping a nuke/an asteroid on a tectonic fault to see what happens, is ok?

II. Designate special status to such bodies protecting it from outside activity

Why? Why do they need a "special status" beyond what this proposal would do?

III. Rendering above clauses null and void shall said body develops a type 1 or higher civilization

So that's use of fire. So you're not doing much to protect sapient life and nothing at all to protect sentient life.

IV. Rendering above clauses null and void shall said body be integrated into another type 1 or higher nation

Wait wait wait what? How can they be "integrated", if you're not allowed to colonize them or touch them in any way?

V. Rendering above clauses null and void shall a catysclasmic event threaten the overall biosphere of a habitable body

Typo. And also see above for my criticism on the usability of this. Not to mention that this clause clashes with the definition. "Threaten the overall biosphere" =/= "wipe out all life".

[Aureumterra]

OOC post to use RL references.

RECOGNIZING the amount of primitive habitable bodies in the multiverse

Define terms before using them - in other words, don't use wordings like "primitive habitable bodies" in the preamble.

CONCERNED over the exploitation of these bodies by more advanced nations, often leading to severely negative consequences
What severely negative consequences?

Wiping out native populations and polluting the hell out of habitable bodies

BELIEVING that these planets have the right to remain untouched until sentient life develops
And if it never does? How do you know it will some day do that?

The Drake Equation estimates that most habitable bodies at this stage of the universe’s life has developed intelligent life, and those who haven’t who have the energy potential to will according to Darwin’s theory of evolution.

DEFINES for the purpose of this proposal
Good, except change “proposal” into “resolution".

Alright

I. Habitable Bodies as a planet’s or a natural satellite’s ability to generate all life endogenously

That doesn't read grammatically correct. Are you defining the bodies or the ability? Also, all life? Or just life that happens to develope on that celestial body? And how do you define "endogenously"? (Don't edit the draft, just answer in a post.) Hell, we don't know in RL if our kind of life got started on Earth!

Basically something that has an internal cause, life on RL Earth is most likely developed due to carbon based molecules reacting with the atmospheric conditions, although the external asteroid theory is pretty popular among a few scientist, I tend to think otherwise.

II. Sentient beings as entities with the capacity to perceive or experience subjectively
Why do you need to define this at all? You don’t actually use it in the active clauses.

Alright, I guess I don’t need this

III. Primitive Habitable Bodies as habitable bodies that do not have a native type 1 or greater civilization
You're still talking about "type 1" things. What are "type 2" and further numbers? Just scrap the numbers entirely. You seriously don’t need them.

Why not?

IV. Type 1 Civilizations as civilizations that can use and store energy which reaches its planet from its parent star

...so every civilization ever that has invented fire? (Energy from sunlight is used in photosynthesis to bind carbon from atmospheric carbon dioxide into organic compounds creating things, like, you know, wood, which, when burned, can be used for various purposes by sapient beings. Including, as RL humans have demonstrated, burning sapient beings.)[/quote]
However, fire is not a way to store the energy artificially

V. Native Civilizations as civilizations with indigenous origin or growth on a body

Define "indigenous" when it comes to civilizations? Actually, define "civilization", for that matter... Also, does this mean that things like Columbus "finding" the Americas would be banned under the clauses of this proposal? And lastly, what "growth on a body"? The wording makes me think of cancer.[/quote]
What?

VI. Small Scale Research activities as activities of limited size or extent with the purpose of research on local anomalies

Define "local"? Your backyard? Your city block? Your city? Your nation? Your continent? Your planet? Your solar system? Your star cluster? Your galaxy? Your galaxy cluster? (I hope you're aware that the galactic neighbourhood of our RL home galaxy is called the "Local Group"...) Also, in RL we humans can observe quite local phenomenae that happen on other planets in the same solar system - is that "small scale research"?[/quote]

VII. Catysclasmic Events as events that could potentially wipe out all life on a habitable body
Typo. And also, why do you define this? Life on RL Earth has survived some seriously fucked up events, and since we're here, it means that life is bloody tenacious. You could easily wipe out all civilizations five times over and not come even close to wiping out all life. So, given that the exception at the end will do nothing to let you stop civilizations or even all higher lifeforms from going extinct, there’s really no use for either that exception or this definition.

Read the stuff Allied Sapients wrote

MANDATES the World Assembly and its member nations to:
You really just need the one word.

KK

I. Limit all but small scale research activities on primitive habitable bodies
So sending rovers over or dropping a nuke/an asteroid on a tectonic fault to see what happens, is ok?

I’ve defined this, nuking a planet is not small scale as it is not limited

II. Designate special status to such bodies protecting it from outside activity
Why? Why do they need a "special status" beyond what this proposal would do?

To protect these planets from loophole hunters

III. Rendering above clauses null and void shall said body develops a type 1 or higher civilization
So that's use of fire. So you’re not doing much to protect sapient life and nothing at all to protect sentient life.

They don’t store energy, so they don’t count as type 1

IV. Rendering above clauses null and void shall said body be integrated into another type 1 or higher nation
Wait wait wait what? How can they be "integrated", if you're not allowed to colonize them or touch them in any way?

Not all nations are WA members, so if a non WA member decides to integrate such body into their sovereign territory, you are allowed to interact

V. Rendering above clauses null and void shall a catysclasmic event threaten the overall biosphere of a habitable body
Typo. And also see above for my criticism on the usability of this. Not to mention that this clause clashes with the definition. “Threaten the overall biosphere” =/= “wipe out all life".

I’ll edit it to make it make sense

[Alpha Cassiopeiae]

"Do you intend to make colonisation of habitable planets illegal because they might develop life sometime? And hell, we can never be sure there's one kind of life and one type of planet it can develop on, so it can be argued that this proposal prohibits all planetary colonisation. Even so, life, and especially sentient life, takes millions of years to develop. What are the chances that it will develop if it hasn't by the time we've found it? Sure, it's possible, but is it likely? Also, you've introduced special protections on planets that may develop sapient life, only to take them away the second those planets do."

[Wallenburg]

"Our fellow interplanetary and interstellar member states certainly will take issue with this ridiculous restriction from exploiting the readily available resources of habitable worlds, especially when those planets harbor no life that may be harmed by active use."

[Araraukar]

OOC post. Also, you've messed up the quote code so much in your post that I'm having to look at my own post side-by-side to see what you added and what was mine. Be careful to use as many ending codes as you use opening ones, or else it's a real mess.

What severely negative consequences?

Wiping out native populations and polluting the hell out of habitable bodies

There already are restrictions on both activities on areas "under the jurisdiction" of a member nation. And any nation that would exploit a habitable planet to the point of driving species to extinction and polluting them beyond habitability while not claiming that planet as theirs, is really just asking for trouble from any other spacefaring nation that might have wanted to colonize it. And risking a lot besides that, since polluting anything usually requires having heavy industry on the surface.

Also, why only worry about interplanetary travelers doing that? Shouldn't that be a far bigger issue for the intelligent species that are trapped on their planet and causing an extinction event that their civilization might not survive?

The Drake Equation estimates that most habitable bodies at this stage of the universe’s life has developed intelligent life, and those who haven’t who have the energy potential to will according to Darwin’s theory of evolution.

It took the Earth over 4 billion years (that's four thousand thousand thousands) to do so. Hell it took Earth about two billion years to develope eucaryotes. I mean, fuck, it took the Earth almost 4 billion years to come up with the first animals!

How could you have, at any point of those four billion years, have said, with any kind of certainty, that this planet will have intelligent life on it? Not to mention intelligent life that you can say is intelligent, without exhaustive search and research first? I mean, dolphins are intelligent, we know this now, after decades and decades of research. But suppose they were the only smart animal species on the planet. How would a spacefaring alien race be able to tell that? The dolphins don't build things. They don't use radio waves. They have a language, but even we can't understand it and we've been studying them for decades. (It's easier, really, to teach them ours, which says something about the intelligence of our species rather than theirs...) How would you, at a quick glance, be able to say that dolphins are sapient?

Also, Drake equation? Meet Fermi paradox.

Basically something that has an internal cause

So life that arrived to the planet on a comet and has since sprung up into an astoundingly complex system through the forces of deep time and evolution is not protected by this proposal??? Seriously, what the fuck?

life on RL Earth is most likely developed due to carbon based molecules reacting with the atmospheric conditions

So, this?

although the external asteroid theory is pretty popular among a few scientist, I tend to think otherwise.

Asteroids? Think comets as more likely, but it's not what I meant. I meant that things like amino acids are out there, in interstellar gas clouds, presumably happening abiotically. If you dropped enough of those molecules (since, you know, space dust tends to fall on planetary bodies) on the early Earth kind of planet, you might get life, but would you say it sprung out of nothing on that planet's surface or that it both came from outside and was born on the planet?

And that's even before going into the difficulty of defining "life". Are viruses alive? Some of them are large enough to have rudimentaly metabolism outside of host cells. Are prions alive? Where do you draw the line? See here for something very interesting on the subject. Are computer viruses alive? If we create artificial life, some kind of robots for example, that function just like living creatures, are they alive?

Would you be able to recognize life that was completely alien to us? You could think you're just looking at rocks on a barren planet, and only after it's too late and you've decimated the surface, will you realize that the funny crystal rocks were actually living, growing things. A WA nation might be in violation of this thing without knowing it. Hell, given the odds, probably all of the interplanetary/interstellar ones are.

You're still talking about "type 1" things. What are "type 2" and further numbers? Just scrap the numbers entirely. You seriously don’t need them.

Why not?

Because why use "type one" if you only have one type? If you must make some kind of defining point for civilizations that you want to protect or don't want to protect, just use "advanced". You're already using "primitive".

...so every civilization ever that has invented fire?

However, fire is not a way to store the energy artificially

Your proposal says nothing about artificiality, and also, let me introduce you to the concept of firewood! It's a marvelous invention. Especially at these latitudes (north of 63rd parallel north) where the winters are often cold and long and snowy. *looks out at the bright, sunny, minus 10 degrees Celsius weather and the brilliant white snowcover of about 70 cm deep and sighs happily* (That's 14 F and 27.5 inches, if you haven't caught up with the SI system yet.)

What?

Exactly what it says on the tin: "Define "indigenous" when it comes to civilizations? Actually, define "civilization"." And also, growth on a body, in your definition V.

Read the stuff Allied Sapients wrote

I have, but she's not the author of this proposal. Also, I just re-checked and their posts seem to agree with me more than you.

I’ve defined this, nuking a planet is not small scale as it is not limited

Nuclear weapons are very limited scale when we're talking about actual planets. Even Tsar Bomba can only directly destroy something the size of a city. The fallout is an additional issue, but hardly something that life couldn't deal with. Hell, nukes were used on two cities in WW2 and those cities have been rebuilt and the nation they're in is doing fine. (And having many more problems from the combination of a tsunami and a peaceful nuclear power application...)

Why? Why do they need a "special status" beyond what this proposal would do?

To protect these planets from loophole hunters

You'll never be able to do that, just so you know. Also, "special status" on its own does jack shit.

They don’t store energy, so they don’t count as type 1

Firewood. Hell, bees store solar energy. Which is why I asked you to define a civilization.

Not all nations are WA members, so if a non WA member decides to integrate such body into their sovereign territory, you are allowed to interact

Ohhh, so you want to avoid unintentional loopholes so that you can write the planet-sized ones in yourself? Now I get it. Want to exploit a planet? Ask a non-WA ally to land on it, declare it theirs and then pay them to bugger off so you can say you've "conquered" it.