NationStates

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:17 am**

Freedom to Reproduce
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: The Free Philosophers of Earth
Lauding previous attempts by this august Assembly to defend fundamental freedoms pertaining to the reproduction of sapient species,

Surprised by the lack of existing global legislation safeguarding the right of sapient species to reproduce against those sinister regimes who would seek to deny said rights,

Noting the tendency of reproductive limits to cause a preponderance of sex-selective abortions, thereby leading to extreme gender imbalances in societies where said policy is implemented,

Abhorred by the potential eugenic motivations of population control policies, be they stated or not,

Observing that the expansion of health, education, and infrastructure systems have proven themselves to be equally effective and morally upstanding way to normalize population trends without creating the unintended consequences of direct reproductive limits,

Yearning therefore, to finally establish the freedom to reproduce as a fundamental right of all sapient species,

The General Assembly, by the advice and consent of the delegates and member nations thereof, hereby:

Prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species number of children that any member of a sapient species may have or from banning the act of biological reproduction,

Prohibits member nations from forcibly sterilizing individuals of a sapient species or requiring them to use contraceptives.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:44 am**

We would support this proposal. That said, Section 1 should be altered so that it also covers sapient species who do not give live birth. Next, Section 3 is not relevant to the rest of this proposal in our opinion, so it should be altered or removed.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:46 am**

The proposal has been updated according to the desires of the delegation from Christian Democrats.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:52 am**

The United provinces hereunder represented by its Prince,

Takes note of said proposal,
Declares to find nothing wrong with the proposal an sich,
Will declare to vote Nay as/when the proposal is forthcomming,

Does declare that this Nay is not to bar said Sapiens creatures from reproduction but will be because it is not in line with national policy of pro-recreation eugenics where we would like to continue applying large scale subsidies, breast milk programs as well as themepark birthday party's to provide enough births to counter our abysmal death rates which by no means are of old age.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:54 am**

We applaud your proposal, and will wholeheartedly support it.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:55 am**

Here's what your new version of Section 1 now says:

Prohibits member nations from enacting any direct limits on the childrearing of sapient species or the number of children to whom any member of such species may have.

You should be careful with the wording here. "Childrearing" is a very broad term. You could use "childbearing" instead, but that might be too narrow. Also, a would-be repeal author could later criticize your proposal for not defining the scope of the term "direct limits."

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:29 pm**

It seems to conflict with the National Policy "No Sex" (Biological reproduction is prohibited), which Tethys 13 enforces - all our people are grown in vats.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:46 pm**

Christian Democrats wrote:Here's what your new version of Section 1 now says:

Prohibits member nations from enacting any direct limits on the childrearing of sapient species or the number of children to whom any member of such species may have.

You should be careful with the wording here. "Childrearing" is a very broad term. You could use "childbearing" instead, but that might be too narrow. Also, a would-be repeal author could later criticize your proposal for not defining the scope of the term "direct limits."

I believe I have fixed this.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:34 pm**

“As I said the last time something like this came around,” says Ambassador Olsh. “Resources are not infinite, especially in space stations and colony worlds. Intentional population control by law is far more humane than unintentional population control by starvation or by war.”

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:45 pm**

Allied Sapients wrote:“As I said the last time something like this came around,” says Ambassador Olsh. “Resources are not infinite, especially in space stations and colony worlds. Intentional population control by law is far more humane than unintentional population control by starvation or by war.”

"In such a case, in which the goods needed for life are excessively high due to extreme scarcity, there already exists an economic disincentive to reproduce that is far more powerful than any government mandate could be. The laws of the marketplace to which the primitive capitalist, scarcity-driven economies rely on play out their ends without need for government to do so. People react to scarcity on their own; infringing on vital human freedoms do so is abhorrent on principle."

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:09 pm**

“If that were the case, there would never be long term food shortages. There are. Your theory is greatly lacking.”

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:18 pm**

Allied Sapients wrote:“If that were the case, there would never be long term food shortages. There are. Your theory is greatly lacking.”

"Of course there exist long term food shortages, and such is the grave flaw in the free markets which capitalists so laud. Congratulations, ambassador--you have proven the ineffectiveness of an entirely free market.

Anyways, there of course are policies aside from direct population control that can be taken to minimize these issues. Among such policies include widespread contraceptive distribution, coupled with a strong public health provision, the widespread adoption of genetically modified crops, etc."

"All of these methods are, of course, inferior to fully-automated democratic socialism, but I digress."

OOC: It's my character. Apologies in advance for my annoyance.

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:25 pm**

Ambassador Olsh let’s out an amused chittering noise. “You assume I am here to defend human economic systems? I am not. I am also not unaware of genetically modified crops- my species has relied exclusively on them ever since our homeworld was rendered uninhabitable. But no system can last forever with a population that grows faster than the system does.”

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:41 pm**

Allied Sapients wrote:Ambassador Olsh let’s out an amused chittering noise. “You assume I am here to defend human economic systems? I am not. I am also not unaware of genetically modified crops- my species has relied exclusively on them ever since our homeworld was rendered uninhabitable. But no system can last forever with a population that grows faster than the system does.”

"Should the system grow and develop sufficiently, population growth declines, ultimately leading to the stabilisation of populations. Such is a fact. There is simply no need for coercive population control in developed societies. As for developing ones, population control has led to more problems than it's solved, as was the case in China before the global evolution. There still existed great amounts of famine even after their one-child policy was implemented. In fact, the largest contributor to Chinese woes with regard to food was resource mismanagement and poor food distribution, not the population. It did, on the other hand, create large gender imbalances and exacerbated sexism."

"Most famine is, anyways, caused by mismanagement and often malice on the part of weak, primitive governments. I suggest they solve their own problems rather than infringe on human rights."

Posted: **Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:58 pm**

The ambassador of Copperward, Ambassador Garvey adjusts his tie and rises from his seat. "Although the nation of Copperward respects and commends the Republic of the Free Philosophers of Earth's efforts to strengthen human rights, because Copperward and many other nations have reached a population far beyond their territory's carrying capacity, it is essential for some nations to limit the population's growth to prevent shortages in essential resources including food and water, and land. Because clause 1 'prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species,' the Diplomatic Committee of Copperward is opposed to this bill."

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:22 am**

"Sterilisation for rapists and other criminals would be prohibited by clause 2, perhaps an expecting for cases of judicial punishment could be added."

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:30 am**

The Free Philosophers of Earth wrote:Yearning therefore, to finally establish the freedom to reproduce as a fundamental right of all sapient species

Is the freedom to reproduce really a fundamental right in the same sense as habeus corpus, equality before the law and freedom from torture and slavery? I have my reservations, especially since some individuals are, for biological reasons, unable to reproduce. I cannot at present think of another fundamental right that cannot be exercised by some individuals for biological reasons. Even a person in a persistent vegetative state enjoys fundamental legal protections.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:06 pm**

I am really on the fence on this one. In as much as there should be, in general, a freedom to reproduce, one could legitimately question the right in cases where it is possible to pass along a significant genetic defect which only kicks in shortly after childbearing years. I had a neighbor of mine who married a beautiful woman who then had two daughters before she found out that she had a major genetic disorder that impacted her speech and mobility (and life expectancy) and has a good possibility of being passed on to her daughters.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:51 pm**

The Free Philosophers of Earth wrote:2. Prohibits member nations from ... requiring them to use contraceptives.

OOC: A weird RL fact is that to be eligible for gender reassignment surgery in Finland, you have to be "sterile", which basically means having taken hormones of the opposite sex or hormonal contraceptives to disable the germ cell production/maturation of your biological sex.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:06 pm**

Mazemba wrote:
The Free Philosophers of Earth wrote:Yearning therefore, to finally establish the freedom to reproduce as a fundamental right of all sapient species

Is the freedom to reproduce really a fundamental right in the same sense as habeus corpus, equality before the law and freedom from torture and slavery?

Yes, the right to marry and have children is really a fundamental right. Without reproduction, there wouldn't be people.

Mazemba wrote:I have my reservations, especially since some individuals are, for biological reasons, unable to reproduce. I cannot at present think of another fundamental right that cannot be exercised by some individuals for biological reasons.

For biological reasons, children and the intellectually disabled cannot exercise the right to contract, HIV patients cannot exercise the right to donate blood, and blind people cannot exercise the right to read. Besides, we fail to see how the inability of some people to exercise a right abolishes that right for everybody else. Most adults who are physically incapable of reproducing would like to have that ability.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:26 pm**

Dirty Americans wrote:I am really on the fence on this one. In as much as there should be, in general, a freedom to reproduce, one could legitimately question the right in cases where it is possible to pass along a significant genetic defect which only kicks in shortly after childbearing years. I had a neighbor of mine who married a beautiful woman who then had two daughters before she found out that she had a major genetic disorder that impacted her speech and mobility (and life expectancy) and has a good possibility of being passed on to her daughters.

"People with genetic issues ought to refrain from reproduction of their own choosing, rather than be subject to a eugenic policy. A parent willing to love a child with disabilities should not be denied the opportunity to do so."

Kenmoria wrote:"Sterilisation for rapists and other criminals would be prohibited by clause 2, perhaps an expecting for cases of judicial punishment could be added."

"And why exactly would we support such a measure? I see no reason. I can see it right now--every single tinpot dictator will rush to sterilize political dissidents. How joyous. "

Copperward wrote:The ambassador of Copperward, Ambassador Garvey adjusts his tie and rises from his seat. "Although the nation of Copperward respects and commends the Republic of the Free Philosophers of Earth's efforts to strengthen human rights, because Copperward and many other nations have reached a population far beyond their territory's carrying capacity, it is essential for some nations to limit the population's growth to prevent shortages in essential resources including food and water, and land. Because clause 1 'prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species,' the Diplomatic Committee of Copperward is opposed to this bill."

"Social justice and womens' equality are equally effective methods of population control, and the data proves this point. Therefore, we contend that population limits are not essential, and most who pedal the mistaken notion your delegation asserts typically do so to distract from their main goal."

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:46 pm**

The Free Philosophers of Earth wrote:
Copperward wrote:The ambassador of Copperward, Ambassador Garvey adjusts his tie and rises from his seat. "Although the nation of Copperward respects and commends the Republic of the Free Philosophers of Earth's efforts to strengthen human rights, because Copperward and many other nations have reached a population far beyond their territory's carrying capacity, it is essential for some nations to limit the population's growth to prevent shortages in essential resources including food and water, and land. Because clause 1 'prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species,' the Diplomatic Committee of Copperward is opposed to this bill."

"Social justice and womens' equality are equally effective methods of population control, and the data proves this point. Therefore, we contend that population limits are not essential, and most who pedal the mistaken notion your delegation asserts typically do so to distract from their main goal."

"And what 'data' are you referring to, ambassador?" interjects Ambassador Bentley. "And how does social justice and women's equality in any way pose as an effective method of population control?!" Bentley anxiously rustles through the large stacks of paper mounted on her desk to check for any documents of this "data" that the ambassador of the Free Philosophers of Earth was speaking of.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:07 pm**

Copperward wrote:
The Free Philosophers of Earth wrote:"Social justice and womens' equality are equally effective methods of population control, and the data proves this point. Therefore, we contend that population limits are not essential, and most who pedal the mistaken notion your delegation asserts typically do so to distract from their main goal."

"And what 'data' are you referring to, ambassador?" interjects Ambassador Bentley. "And how does social justice and women's equality in any way pose as an effective method of population control?!" Bentley anxiously rustles through the large stacks of paper mounted on her desk to check for any documents of this "data" that the ambassador of the Free Philosophers of Earth was speaking of.

"Sir, check the population trends of the modern world. There you'll find the obvious to be true."

OOC: Watch This. There's a reason that developed countries have much lower rates of population growth.

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:10 pm**

The Free Philosophers of Earth wrote:
Freedom to Reproduce
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: The Free Philosophers of Earth
Lauding previous attempts by this august Assembly to defend fundamental freedoms pertaining to the reproduction of sapient species,

Surprised by the lack of existing global legislation safeguarding the right of sapient species to reproduce against those sinister regimes who would seek to deny said rights,

Noting the tendency of reproductive limits to cause a preponderance of sex-selective abortions, thereby leading to extreme gender imbalances in societies where said policy is implemented,

Abhorred by the potential eugenic motivations of population control policies, be they stated or not,

Observing that the expansion of health, education, and infrastructure systems have proven themselves to be equally effective and morally upstanding way to normalize population trends without creating the unintended consequences of direct reproductive limits,

Yearning therefore, to finally establish the freedom to reproduce as a fundamental right of all sapient species,

The General Assembly, by the advice and consent of the delegates and member nations thereof, hereby:

Prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species number of children that any member of a sapient species may have or from banning the act of biological reproduction,

Prohibits member nations from forcibly sterilizing individuals of a sapient species or requiring them to use contraceptives.

I'd Support it

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:23 pm**

The Free Philosophers of Earth wrote:"Should the system grow and develop sufficiently, population growth declines, ultimately leading to the stabilisation of populations. Such is a fact. There is simply no need for coercive population control in developed societies. As for developing ones, population control has led to more problems than it's solved, as was the case in China before the global evolution. There still existed great amounts of famine even after their one-child policy was implemented. In fact, the largest contributor to Chinese woes with regard to food was resource mismanagement and poor food distribution, not the population. It did, on the other hand, create large gender imbalances and exacerbated sexism."

"Most famine is, anyways, caused by mismanagement and often malice on the part of weak, primitive governments. I suggest they solve their own problems rather than infringe on human rights."

"I am not aware of what "China" is," says Ambassador Olsh. "And what may be a trend in human societies does not necessarily make a certainty in all of them, nor does it mean that all other sapients will have that same trend."

NationStates

[DRAFT] Freedom to Reproduce

[DRAFT] Freedom to Reproduce