[DRAFT] Freedom to Reproduce

[Imperium Anglorum]

Consider that some nations may RP as real world nations. That isn’t ‘metagaming’ or whatever you want to call it. That’s using statistics from an RP, which just happens to also be the same as ones in the real world.

[Jebslund]

Consider that some nations may RP as real world nations. That isn’t ‘metagaming’ or whatever you want to call it. That’s using statistics from an RP, which just happens to also be the same as ones in the real world.

OOC: Are the links being provided links to the statistics used IC, or are they links to real-world sources? There's a difference, even if the numbers are the same. The former is a source an IC WA nation would be able to get their hands on. The latter is metagaming.

[West Leas Oros]

This could be interesting

[Rafterland]

Consider that some nations may RP as real world nations. That isn’t ‘metagaming’ or whatever you want to call it. That’s using statistics from an RP, which just happens to also be the same as ones in the real world.

OOC: Even if all real world nations were represented in NS (likely I guess), the proxy IC RL data gathered from them wouldn't prove a substantial statistical observation of anything considering the sheer amount of WA members and considering that there is no point in trying to appeal to the real world representing data from multiple instances of the world, so there isn't even a game to metagame with this kind of stuff, I suppose.

[Stoskavanya]

Consider that some nations may RP as real world nations. That isn’t ‘metagaming’ or whatever you want to call it. That’s using statistics from an RP, which just happens to also be the same as ones in the real world.

OOC: Even if all real world nations were represented in NS (likely I guess), the proxy IC RL data gathered from them wouldn't prove a substantial statistical observation of anything considering the sheer amount of WA members and considering that there is no point in trying to appeal to the real world representing data from multiple instances of the world, so there isn't even a game to metagame with this kind of stuff, I suppose.

I think we use real life data because its all the data we got. It is accepted that problems in real life are also problems we can tackle in the WA, so by extension we can assume real life data corresponds with those aforementioned problems.

What else are we going to do, make up roleplay data?

[Rafterland]

OOC: Even if all real world nations were represented in NS (likely I guess), the proxy IC RL data gathered from them wouldn't prove a substantial statistical observation of anything considering the sheer amount of WA members and considering that there is no point in trying to appeal to the real world representing data from multiple instances of the world, so there isn't even a game to metagame with this kind of stuff, I suppose.

I think we use real life data because its all the data we got. It is accepted that problems in real life are also problems we can tackle in the WA, so by extension we can assume real life data corresponds with those aforementioned problems.

What else are we going to do, make up roleplay data?

I was positing that real life matters can logically be used in the WA without considering it metagaming, so I agree with you.

[Imperium Anglorum]

What else are we going to do, make up roleplay data?

OOC: This is the biggest reason why RL has a special position when it comes to empirics. Arguments can only go so far. Arguments need to be verified empirically. We can only do so with respect to the real world. Data from the real world, therefore, can serve to falsify certain arguments. Pretending that it doesn't exist or is stupid is equivalent to denying reality. I see no reason to accept policy recommendations from a person too stuck in their own fantasy to recognise the truths of things surrounding them.

[Awesome Dudes and Dudettes]

I support it, the draft that is

[Ochea]

Surprised by the lack of existing global legislation safeguarding the right of sapient species to reproduce against those sinister regimes who would seek to deny said rights,

What if those "sinister regimes" are trying to prevent a famine? Some nations may limit reproduction because they do not have the resources to support a large population.

Noting the tendency of reproductive limits to cause a preponderance of sex-selective abortions, thereby leading to extreme gender imbalances in societies where said policy is implemented,

In some societies, this may happen, but it is unfair to generalize and assume that all societies are sexist. Some species may not even have a concept of sex or may be unisex, and others may have achieved equality between however many sexes they have.

[United Massachusetts]

Note: I still intend to pursue this.

[Copperward]

Note: I still intend to pursue this.

OOC: The last edit was made nearly a month ago. When do you plan on making edits or publishing the next draft?

[United Massachusetts]

Note: I still intend to pursue this.

OOC: The last edit was made nearly a month ago. When do you plan on making edits or publishing the next draft?

In a while. Let the conversation die down. I still need to work out some issues.

[Copperward]

OOC: The biggest issue I see with this proposal which would prevent me from supporting it IC-ly and OOC-ly would be mandate 1, "Prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species number of children that any member of a sapient species may have or from banning the act of biological reproduction." In real life, there is a necessity for some limits on reproduction - China being a prominent example. And in this day and age, as humans continue to consume finite resources at a dangerously high rate, humanity is closely reaching its carrying capacity on Earth, an issue which would justify the limits to reproduction. While some argue that humanity is far from carrying capacity, I'd argue the opposite because of how rare valuable resources are becoming, and how more inhospitable the environment is becoming. The weather is growing more chaotic and unpredictable with global warming and extensive pollution, with northeastern North America being hit with four nor'easter in one year, and areas like California facing extensive water scarcity. Unless there are limits - even passive limits - on reproduction, the entire world may face insurmountable difficulties in rationing food, water, and finite resources, and surviving on the hazardous, unpredictable landscape.
While I haven't made a factbook about my nation yet, my IIC nation too faces these problems in a greater scale. Decades of abuse to the environment, over-consumption of vital resources, and overcrowded residential areas warrant the use of legal limitations on the childbearing of my nation. Otherwise, my nation will inevitably face starvation, dehydration, overcrowding, and collapse.

[Tethys 13]

OOC: The biggest issue I see with this proposal which would prevent me from supporting it IC-ly and OOC-ly would be mandate 1, "Prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species number of children that any member of a sapient species may have or from banning the act of biological reproduction." In real life, there is a necessity for some limits on reproduction - China being a prominent example. And in this day and age, as humans continue to consume finite resources at a dangerously high rate, humanity is closely reaching its carrying capacity on Earth, an issue which would justify the limits to reproduction. While some argue that humanity is far from carrying capacity, I'd argue the opposite because of how rare valuable resources are becoming, and how more inhospitable the environment is becoming. The weather is growing more chaotic and unpredictable with global warming and extensive pollution, with northeastern North America being hit with four nor'easter in one year, and areas like California facing extensive water scarcity. Unless there are limits - even passive limits - on reproduction, the entire world may face insurmountable difficulties in rationing food, water, and finite resources, and surviving on the hazardous, unpredictable landscape.
While I haven't made a factbook about my nation yet, my IIC nation too faces these problems in a greater scale. Decades of abuse to the environment, over-consumption of vital resources, and overcrowded residential areas warrant the use of legal limitations on the childbearing of my nation. Otherwise, my nation will inevitably face starvation, dehydration, overcrowding, and collapse.

OOC: There's also the issue that it conflicts with gameplay options, since there's an issue that institutes the national policy "No Sex" which prohibits biological reproduction, and so by this any WA nation with that policy (such as mine) would be in infringement of the ruling.

[Masurbia]

OOC: The biggest issue I see with this proposal which would prevent me from supporting it IC-ly and OOC-ly would be mandate 1, "Prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species number of children that any member of a sapient species may have or from banning the act of biological reproduction." In real life, there is a necessity for some limits on reproduction - China being a prominent example. And in this day and age, as humans continue to consume finite resources at a dangerously high rate, humanity is closely reaching its carrying capacity on Earth, an issue which would justify the limits to reproduction. While some argue that humanity is far from carrying capacity, I'd argue the opposite because of how rare valuable resources are becoming, and how more inhospitable the environment is becoming. The weather is growing more chaotic and unpredictable with global warming and extensive pollution, with northeastern North America being hit with four nor'easter in one year, and areas like California facing extensive water scarcity. Unless there are limits - even passive limits - on reproduction, the entire world may face insurmountable difficulties in rationing food, water, and finite resources, and surviving on the hazardous, unpredictable landscape.
While I haven't made a factbook about my nation yet, my IIC nation too faces these problems in a greater scale. Decades of abuse to the environment, over-consumption of vital resources, and overcrowded residential areas warrant the use of legal limitations on the childbearing of my nation. Otherwise, my nation will inevitably face starvation, dehydration, overcrowding, and collapse.

OOC: There's also the issue that it conflicts with gameplay options, since there's an issue that institutes the national policy "No Sex" which prohibits biological reproduction, and so by this any WA nation with that policy (such as mine) would be in infringement of the ruling.

OOC: NS issues have no correlation with World Assembly Resolutions. They do not affect each other.

[Tethys 13]

OOC: There's also the issue that it conflicts with gameplay options, since there's an issue that institutes the national policy "No Sex" which prohibits biological reproduction, and so by this any WA nation with that policy (such as mine) would be in infringement of the ruling.

OOC: NS issues have no correlation with World Assembly Resolutions. They do not affect each other.

OOC: wouldn't it still have an RP effect? (I've been around for a while but never really gotten involved in this stuff before, apologies for my ignorance)

[Kenmoria]

OOC: NS issues have no correlation with World Assembly Resolutions. They do not affect each other.

OOC: wouldn't it still have an RP effect? (I've been around for a while but never really gotten involved in this stuff before, apologies for my ignorance)

(OOC: For most nations, there is absolutely no correlation between issues and actual RP data. For example, Kenmoria's in-game population is two orders of magnitude bigger than its RP one. That said, there are a few nations that role play with their issue results, but that is uncommon.)

[Tethys 13]

OOC: wouldn't it still have an RP effect? (I've been around for a while but never really gotten involved in this stuff before, apologies for my ignorance)

(OOC: For most nations, there is absolutely no correlation between issues and actual RP data. For example, Kenmoria's in-game population is two orders of magnitude bigger than its RP one. That said, there are a few nations that role play with their issue results, but that is uncommon.)

OOC: Ah, danke. I always try to stick pretty close to my NS stats.
Apologies if I have diverted this thread.

IC:
The people of Tethys 13 have all been grown in vats since our nation's revival, and are no longer capable of biological reproduction. Thus, we will not be able to support this resolution if it reaches vote.

[Kenmoria]

"For clause 1, what if the individual suffers a horrific hereditary disease?"

[New-Brussels]

"For clause 1, what if the individual suffers a horrific hereditary disease?"

"One might say that such a horrible disease would prevent the individual from reproducing at all for obvious reasons, haha !

Jokes aside, we believe that such an affliction :

• Would prompt the individual to suicide or seek euthanasia, in which case reproduction is by nature not envisaged by the individual,
• Would not be able to spread to the rest of the population unless in the case of major genetic drift or contagiousness (thus prompting a more serious response than preventing the individual to reproduce),
• Would kill or naturally sterilize the individual before it is able to reproduce, or
• Would not be serious enough to warrant any form of sterilization in the first place.

Therefore, it seems to us that covering the second point should suffice to address your issue and we would like to see what this proposal's author has to say about that."

ooc : obviously I have nothing against people who have horrible genetic diseases and I fully commiserate with them.

[The Inland Emprie]

Freedom to Reproduce
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant | Proposed by: The Free Philosophers of Earth

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Lauding previous attempts by this august Assembly to defend fundamental freedoms pertaining to the reproduction of sapient species,

Surprised by the lack of existing global legislation safeguarding the right of sapient species to reproduce against those sinister regimes who would seek to deny said rights,

Noting the tendency of reproductive limits to cause a preponderance of sex-selective abortions, thereby leading to extreme gender imbalances in societies where said policy is implemented,

Abhorred by the potential eugenic motivations of population control policies, be they stated or not,

Observing that the expansion of health, education, and infrastructure systems have proven themselves to be equally effective and morally upstanding way to normalize population trends without creating the unintended consequences of direct reproductive limits,

Yearning therefore, to finally establish the freedom to reproduce as a fundamental right of all sapient species,

The General Assembly, by the advice and consent of the delegates and member nations thereof, hereby:

1. Prohibits member nations from enacting any limits on the childbearing of sapient species number of children that any member of a sapient species may have or from banning the act of biological reproduction,
   
   
2. Prohibits member nations from forcibly sterilizing individuals of a sapient species or requiring them to use contraceptives.

You will have my full and utter support.