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[reDraft] Regulation of Cryptocurrencies

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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:05 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Masurbia wrote:The Swiss are accepting bitcoin as a tax payment.

OOC: Which, presumably, requires a set exchange rate and government oversight?

Yes, I might have overreached when I said that Bitcoin should remain unregulated.

Nasdaq.com published an article that states,"In addition, Estonia has expressed interest in creating a national cryptocurrency that would be used within its borders, both as currency and as a national identity. Should this come to fruition, it would be rank among one of the largest milestones to date for cryptocurrency.

Members of Finland’s central bank authored a paper outlining the remarkable properties of bitcoin. They concluded that unlike centralized industries, bitcoin is a decentralized monopoly that is run by a protocol. While bitcoin may have the largest amount of market share for digital currencies, its monopolistic position does not act like a traditional monopoly in economic terms. These economists argue that there is in fact no need for governments to regulate bitcoin due to its decentralized infrastructure. This is a novel stance to take in comparison to the FCB’s European counterparts, which have expressed the need to develop government policies surrounding digital currencies."

So you can see countries around the world are embracing cryptocurrency.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:33 pm

Masurbia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: You...really didn't address any of the criminal concerns. Its great that, in the real world, certain companies are willing to accept these currencies. Its even pretty cool that Switzerland is accepting them in a limited capacity. That's a far cry from requiring every single one of the almost 300 nations in the world from accepting them as legal tender in literally all transactions. In the real world, every entity you suggested has a method of tracking those transactions, but there is no way to do that between private entities, which means its impossible to even assess income taxes if the parties use this cryptocurrency.

The end result of a totally untraceable currency is a total loss of government control over the kind of transactions you really want governments to regulate.

Atleast for the United States, the IRS is cracking down on people for not reporting their cryptocurrency's.

According to BusinessInsider, "In 2017, at least eight U.S. States have worked on bills accepting or promoting the use of Bitcoin and blockchain technology, while a couple of them have already passed them into law.

The most important developments for blockchain’s regulation and implementation in the U.S. in an evidentiary context occurred in Arizona (recognition of smart contracts), Vermont (blockchain as evidence), Chicago (real estate records), and, most importantly, Delaware (pending initiative authorizing registration of shares of Delaware companies in blockchain form).

In the U.S., Bitcoin is set to be given the same financial safeguards as traditional assets. The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission has granted LedgerX, a cryptocurrency trading platform operator, approval to become the first federally regulated digital currency options exchange and clearinghouse in the U.S."

In Europe also, "The European Commission is “actively monitoring Blockchain and DLT developments” and is working on exploring “DLT benefits and challenges as well as fields for application in financial services"."


OOC: If you can't track the transaction, then there isn't any way to know if it's being used in an illegal transaction. What the US is doing does not constitute treating bitcoin as a currency, but as an investment future. Swing and a miss, dude.

We won't be supporting this, either way. Nations shouldn't be forced to recognize currency it cannot track.

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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:43 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Masurbia wrote:Atleast for the United States, the IRS is cracking down on people for not reporting their cryptocurrency's.

According to BusinessInsider, "In 2017, at least eight U.S. States have worked on bills accepting or promoting the use of Bitcoin and blockchain technology, while a couple of them have already passed them into law.

The most important developments for blockchain’s regulation and implementation in the U.S. in an evidentiary context occurred in Arizona (recognition of smart contracts), Vermont (blockchain as evidence), Chicago (real estate records), and, most importantly, Delaware (pending initiative authorizing registration of shares of Delaware companies in blockchain form).

In the U.S., Bitcoin is set to be given the same financial safeguards as traditional assets. The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission has granted LedgerX, a cryptocurrency trading platform operator, approval to become the first federally regulated digital currency options exchange and clearinghouse in the U.S."

In Europe also, "The European Commission is “actively monitoring Blockchain and DLT developments” and is working on exploring “DLT benefits and challenges as well as fields for application in financial services"."


OOC: If you can't track the transaction, then there isn't any way to know if it's being used in an illegal transaction. What the US is doing does not constitute treating bitcoin as a currency, but as an investment future. Swing and a miss, dude.

We won't be supporting this, either way. Nations shouldn't be forced to recognize currency it cannot track.


But if in the future there was a way to track these types of transactions, would you support?
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Attempted Socialism
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Postby Attempted Socialism » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Masurbia wrote:Atleast for the United States, the IRS is cracking down on people for not reporting their cryptocurrency's.

According to BusinessInsider, "In 2017, at least eight U.S. States have worked on bills accepting or promoting the use of Bitcoin and blockchain technology, while a couple of them have already passed them into law.

The most important developments for blockchain’s regulation and implementation in the U.S. in an evidentiary context occurred in Arizona (recognition of smart contracts), Vermont (blockchain as evidence), Chicago (real estate records), and, most importantly, Delaware (pending initiative authorizing registration of shares of Delaware companies in blockchain form).

In the U.S., Bitcoin is set to be given the same financial safeguards as traditional assets. The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission has granted LedgerX, a cryptocurrency trading platform operator, approval to become the first federally regulated digital currency options exchange and clearinghouse in the U.S."

In Europe also, "The European Commission is “actively monitoring Blockchain and DLT developments” and is working on exploring “DLT benefits and challenges as well as fields for application in financial services"."
Taxes are levied against people with income, even if that is from scamming. What the US does on Commodity Futures (Except that crypto"currencies" aren't commodity futures) is unrelated to whether crypto"currency" is a currency and the Commission isn't going to acknowledge crypto"currencies" as currencies, only futures.
It's not hard to figure out that all the agencies and commissions staffed by professionals and experts are treating crypto"currencies" as futures (But, rather than commodity futures, this is entirely dependent on speculation, making it the purest form of speculation bubble).

Crypto"currencies" don't work as currencies, because they were never designed to do that. It's a combined futures-scam-fad, and people are gambling on it.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:09 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Masurbia wrote:Atleast for the United States, the IRS is cracking down on people for not reporting their cryptocurrency's.

According to BusinessInsider, "In 2017, at least eight U.S. States have worked on bills accepting or promoting the use of Bitcoin and blockchain technology, while a couple of them have already passed them into law.

The most important developments for blockchain’s regulation and implementation in the U.S. in an evidentiary context occurred in Arizona (recognition of smart contracts), Vermont (blockchain as evidence), Chicago (real estate records), and, most importantly, Delaware (pending initiative authorizing registration of shares of Delaware companies in blockchain form).

In the U.S., Bitcoin is set to be given the same financial safeguards as traditional assets. The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission has granted LedgerX, a cryptocurrency trading platform operator, approval to become the first federally regulated digital currency options exchange and clearinghouse in the U.S."

In Europe also, "The European Commission is “actively monitoring Blockchain and DLT developments” and is working on exploring “DLT benefits and challenges as well as fields for application in financial services"."


OOC: If you can't track the transaction, then there isn't any way to know if it's being used in an illegal transaction. What the US is doing does not constitute treating bitcoin as a currency, but as an investment future. Swing and a miss, dude.

We won't be supporting this, either way. Nations shouldn't be forced to recognize currency it cannot track.


And yes I do agree that as the crypto-market grows it will need regulation. The US SEC declared that some cryptoassets are securities, which means they are regulated. When an Intital Coin Offering (ICO) called DAO raised more than 150 million dollars, but was then hacked, the SEC investigated to see if DAO was considered stock and therefore subjected to existing security laws. And yes, you could go on about how IT WAS HACKED?! but the blockchain is sorta like your immune system. Every time it's attacked, it gets stronger. These "resilience technologies" have an anti-fragility model for responses to these attacks.
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Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
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Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Why not add a definition of currency, and allow some exceptions, such as if it is expected to crash, is new, or is not able to be tracked well enough in comparison to other currency?
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:27 pm

I edited the proposal, added a half-good definition and gave the allowance of regulation.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:34 pm

Masurbia wrote:I edited the proposal, added a half-good definition and gave the allowance of regulation.

"We no longer oppose this, as we can now ban the use of cryptocurrencies within our borders."

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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:40 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Masurbia wrote:I edited the proposal, added a half-good definition and gave the allowance of regulation.

"We no longer oppose this, as we can now ban the use of cryptocurrencies within our borders."

Thank you. I didn't realize that I never mentioned that in the proposal. It's even titled Recognition of Cryptocurrencies
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:49 pm

Masurbia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"We no longer oppose this, as we can now ban the use of cryptocurrencies within our borders."

Thank you. I didn't realize that I never mentioned that in the proposal. It's even titled Recognition of Cryptocurrencies

"Ooh, you want us to recognize them? That's a nonstarter. Opposed."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
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Arotania
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Postby Arotania » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:57 pm

Recognize cryptocurrencies as what by the way? As a threat to society? As an enemy of puppies?

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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:05 pm

Arotania wrote:Recognize cryptocurrencies as what by the way? As a threat to society? As an enemy of puppies?

This whole proposal is to get nations to recognize that cryptocurrencies are out there.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:06 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Masurbia wrote:Thank you. I didn't realize that I never mentioned that in the proposal. It's even titled Recognition of Cryptocurrencies

"Ooh, you want us to recognize them? That's a nonstarter. Opposed."


What?! I was so close. When you briefly not opposed, what made you not opposed?
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:25 pm

Masurbia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Ooh, you want us to recognize them? That's a nonstarter. Opposed."


What?! I was so close. When you briefly not opposed, what made you not opposed?

"This doing absolutely nothing."

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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:31 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Masurbia wrote:
What?! I was so close. When you briefly not opposed, what made you not opposed?

"This doing absolutely nothing."

Nothing? I'm trying to bring Cryptocurrencies into NationStates. And the idea of a whole new market out there where business's are integrating these currencies into their business.
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Arotania
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Postby Arotania » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:38 pm

Masurbia wrote:
Arotania wrote:Recognize cryptocurrencies as what by the way? As a threat to society? As an enemy of puppies?

This whole proposal is to get nations to recognize that cryptocurrencies are out there.


A lot of things are out there. Nobody is writing a proposal titled "Recognition of cute Baby Seals" or "Recognition of Tulip Bulbs". Simple recognition is practically meaningless.
Now you put in real asset. You might want to look up what a "real asset" is.

OOC: Also you might want to check your sources more carefully. Microsoft apparently just stopped accepting Bitcoin. As has Steam last month. With the current state of transaction fees (something like 30$ per transaction if you want it to go through in less than a couple of days or at all) nobody really uses Bitcoin for McDonald's or Subway.

Masurbia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"This doing absolutely nothing."

Nothing? I'm trying to bring Cryptocurrencies into NationStates. And the idea of a whole new market out there where business's are integrating these currencies into their business.

What is new about this? "Cryptocurrency" could be replaced by "Tulip Bulb" in this draft without losing any of its meaning (ignoring the definition clause of course).

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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:52 pm

Arotania wrote:
Masurbia wrote:This whole proposal is to get nations to recognize that cryptocurrencies are out there.


A lot of things are out there. Nobody is writing a proposal titled "Recognition of cute Baby Seals" or "Recognition of Tulip Bulbs". Simple recognition is practically meaningless.
Now you put in real asset. You might want to look up what a "real asset" is.

OOC: Also you might want to check your sources more carefully. Microsoft apparently just stopped accepting Bitcoin. As has Steam last month. With the current state of transaction fees (something like 30$ per transaction if you want it to go through in less than a couple of days or at all) nobody really uses Bitcoin for McDonald's or Subway.

Masurbia wrote:Nothing? I'm trying to bring Cryptocurrencies into NationStates. And the idea of a whole new market out there where business's are integrating these currencies into their business.

What is new about this? "Cryptocurrency" could be replaced by "Tulip Bulb" in this draft without losing any of its meaning (ignoring the definition clause of course).


Ok fine. I will revisit this when it begins to take a bigger effect.
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Essu Beti
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Postby Essu Beti » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:05 pm

Arotania wrote:What is new about this? "Cryptocurrency" could be replaced by "Tulip Bulb" in this draft without losing any of its meaning (ignoring the definition clause of course).


((OOC: A reference to the Dutch tulip mania?))
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:10 pm

Masurbia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"This doing absolutely nothing."

Nothing? I'm trying to bring Cryptocurrencies into NationStates. And the idea of a whole new market out there where business's are integrating these currencies into their business.

"That's the problem. You shouldn't be forcing this on other nations, ambassador. As it stands, your attempt creates a genuine security risk to most states and certainly every individual within those states. I preferred it when this did nothing."

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Postby Fauxia » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:22 pm

“Ambassador Bell is correct. This is simply impractical.”
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Postby Willania Imperium » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:25 pm

"I'm sorry, but I just don't see the practicality of it. Why legislate on something that doesn't seem so big or world-changing? Plus, as another ambassador pointed out, this is a potential security risk due to the potential to be hacked. I'm sorry, but I can't support this."

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Postby Araraukar » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:48 am

Masurbia wrote:Nothing? I'm trying to bring Cryptocurrencies into NationStates.

OOC: Then you can stop right here, because that's not something that the GA proposals can do. GA proposals need to treat the in-character reality as being real, and any reference to "NationStates" is a reference to the game and hence either Metagaming or Game Mechanics violation, depending on what you're trying to do.

EDIT: Especially as referring to any of the existing RL ones would be a Real Life Reference violation.
Last edited by Araraukar on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:21 am

Willania Imperium wrote:"I'm sorry, but I just don't see the practicality of it. Why legislate on something that doesn't seem so big or world-changing? Plus, as another ambassador pointed out, this is a potential security risk due to the potential to be hacked. I'm sorry, but I can't support this."


Yes but anything can be hacked. Bank accounts can be hacked, practically all government data can be hacked. I explained earlier that that when crypto currencies are hacked they use resilience technology to create an even stronger environment
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Masurbia
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Postby Masurbia » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:49 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Masurbia wrote:Nothing? I'm trying to bring Cryptocurrencies into NationStates. And the idea of a whole new market out there where business's are integrating these currencies into their business.

"That's the problem. You shouldn't be forcing this on other nations, ambassador. As it stands, your attempt creates a genuine security risk to most states and certainly every individual within those states. I preferred it when this did nothing."

Ok but isn’t like every GA resolution forcing nations to do something. The most recent, Voting Equality for inmates, forces nations to have voting equality.
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:39 am

Masurbia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"That's the problem. You shouldn't be forcing this on other nations, ambassador. As it stands, your attempt creates a genuine security risk to most states and certainly every individual within those states. I preferred it when this did nothing."

Ok but isn’t like every GA resolution forcing nations to do something. The most recent, Voting Equality for inmates, forces nations to have voting equality.

"Yup. Those were actually valuable efforts. This is not."

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