[PLEASE LOCK] Agricultural Riprarian Buffer Zone Initative

[Wrapper]

OOC: 1) Since when do towns have farmlands

The town of Lake Wales is home to two of the largest orange groves in Florida. Just one example.

[Araraukar]

OOC: 1) Since when do towns have farmlands

The town of Lake Wales is home to two of the largest orange groves in Florida. Just one example.

OOC: You sure that's in the town and not in the non-urban area around it?

[The New California Republic]

The town of Lake Wales is home to two of the largest orange groves in Florida. Just one example.

OOC: You sure that's in the town and not in the non-urban area around it?

OOC: I live in a town with an agricultural college. There is literally a farm, with farmland, in the town...

[Wrapper]

The town of Lake Wales is home to two of the largest orange groves in Florida. Just one example.

OOC: You sure that's in the town and not in the non-urban area around it?

Positive. State Route 60 runs right through one of them.

[Araraukar]

OOC: I live in a town with an agricultural college. There is literally a farm, with farmland, in the town...

OOC: If it's a teaching farm, it's part of the educational system, rather than agricultural industry...

Positive. State Route 60 runs right through one of them.

OOC: Oh ew, polluted oranges.

[Dirty Americans]

OOC: 1) Since when do towns have farmlands

The farmlands that are in our town. (we really need a head banging against the wall smiley)

The question of what can be done at the town level is an interesting and complex one. We already have a system in place where farmers sell development credits so effectively the farmland can't be used for development. One possible option is to piggyback on that system to encourage the set aside of the buffer zones around the larger fields. It might have the added effect of not having extreme snowdrifts as we had with the blizzard of '78.

EDIT: "Town" in the State of New York is a subdivision of the County and a unit of governance. It's more than just the small area around main street. My town has a population of 33K, and 67 sq miles of land area.

[Kranostav]

REQUIRES: that all agriculture farm fields 2 square kilometers or larger have a surrounding buffer zone of wild vegetation that could include grasses, trees and bushes, of a significant width (15 - 30 meters);

EXEMPTS: fields where other mitigation systems have been put in place to minimize potential runoff;

OOC: Isn't the "Requires" Portion pointless if you nullify it in the next clause? Wouldn't "Requires that all agricultural farm fields 2 km^2 or larger utilize a mitigation system to minimize potential runoff if not already in place" sound a little bit better and combine the two?

Also does the WA recognize a specific measurement system that might otherwise not exist in member nations?

[Araraukar]

Also does the WA recognize a specific measurement system that might otherwise not exist in member nations?

OOC: There's a resolution in place that allows that, and for that matter, the SI system (metres and kilograms and litres) is the more correct one when it comes to international legislation on (bio)science...

[Snowman]

OOC: We may be discussing some way to get these zones in our town farmlands, I think.

OOC: 1) Since when do towns have farmlands and 2) there's no national legislation on the subject? Really???

Also, you still haven't answered my question about just how this would work for rice farming...

Additionally, why wild vegetation? Wouldn't well-managed park-like water's edge work just as well. It's not like there's no nutrient run-off from or through natural-state ecosystems. And in some cases these buffer zones need to be re-established anyway, so rather than leaving the land "wild" for all weeds to set up base in, some ground-covering vegetation to prevent soil erosion would be nice, even if it meant it needed to be sown/planted and managed by sapients rather than randomness of nature.

I don't think farmers want to pay/do miles of work that doesn't give them more money. Wild vegetation & "natural ecosystems" are actually being used to help with runoff, because they keep more nutrients & sediments in the local area before sending the water to the Mississippi.

[Dirty Americans]

OOC: Isn't the "Requires" Portion pointless if you nullify it in the next clause? Wouldn't "Requires that all agricultural farm fields 2 km^2 or larger utilize a mitigation system to minimize potential runoff if not already in place" sound a little bit better and combine the two?

I was thinking more along the lines of farms that used advanced techniques (such as drip irrigation to precisely control plant fertilization as well as water content) that minimized the fertilizer and as a result the runoff.

I don't think farmers want to pay/do miles of work that doesn't give them more money. Wild vegetation & "natural ecosystems" are actually being used to help with runoff, because they keep more nutrients & sediments in the local area before sending the water to the Mississippi.

Of course not. That's the whole nature of the category ... it comes at the "expense" of agriculture. I don't expect them to be happy. I don't expect the minister of agriculture (who sees his national numbers drop from the stat wank) to be happy. This is the environment ... SOMEONE is going to have to suffer.

[Araraukar]

I don't think farmers want to pay/do miles of work that doesn't give them more money.

OOC: No, but in the nations that don't already have the buffer zones will have to build/construct ones, it would make sense for the farmers to plant wild things that, for example, pest animals prefer over their farmed plants, to save on pest control costs as well as be environmentally nice.

[Snowman]

I don't think farmers want to pay/do miles of work that doesn't give them more money.

OOC: No, but in the nations that don't already have the buffer zones will have to build/construct ones, it would make sense for the farmers to plant wild things that, for example, pest animals prefer over their farmed plants, to save on pest control costs as well as be environmentally nice.

That's exactly what I was trying to say & plans are already going to do that. The person I was quoting was saying you needed to treat it like a lawn with constant care & wild vegetation increases run off, which is wrong unless the US Government wants to kill the land by promoting wild vegetation strips.

[Dirty Americans]

Also, you still haven't answered my question about just how this would work for rice farming...

Sorry, I missed that. That's a very interesting question. Originally I thought of a rice field as a constantly flooded field like a cranberry bog and thus outside of the exception. But commercial rice fields start out dry and are flooded. But the flooding doesn't for a part of the general river and estuary flow. So perhaps by the definition the rice field would apply.

[Araraukar]

Originally I thought of a rice field as a constantly flooded field like a cranberry bog and thus outside of the exception.

OOC: Why would a cranberry bog be outside the definition?

[Dirty Americans]

OOC: Why would a cranberry bog be outside the definition?

OOC: Damn, i just fell victim to the obvious assumption problem. I'll tweak the definition ...
original definition: "an area of land"
definition of land: "the part of the earth's surface that is not covered by water"
proposed tweak: "an area of land, not covered by water,"
In theory possibly redundant but better than having to define "land."

[Araraukar]

OOC: I'll tweak the definition ...
proposed tweak: "an area of land, not covered by water,"

OOC: I repeat:

OOC: Why would a cranberry bog be outside the definition?

Bog =/= covered by water. I've actually been to picking all the Nordic berries in their natural environments, and you don't need a boat to get to cranberries, unless the bog is on an island.

[Dirty Americans]

Bog =/= covered by water. I've actually been to picking all the Nordic berries in their natural environments, and you don't need a boat to get to cranberries, unless the bog is on an island.

Then you must be considerably light because the definition of bog is "wet muddy ground too soft to support a heavy body."

[Aclion]

Bog =/= covered by water. I've actually been to picking all the Nordic berries in their natural environments, and you don't need a boat to get to cranberries, unless the bog is on an island.

Then you must be considerably light because the definition of bog is "wet muddy ground too soft to support a heavy body."

Cranberry bogs are only really bogs twice a year, when they're deliberately flooded, to harvest and to protect from frost. Most of the time they're just damp sandy fields that you can walk on easily(but please don't).
Which means that for this resolution cranberry bogs would switch between being feilds depending on the season.

I think you need to step back and rethink the way you approach agricultural runoff.

And while i'm here, rice doesn't need to be grown in water. But growing in water increases yield significantly by suppressing weeds. You could still grow rice if aquaculture were banned, you'd just have a food shortage if you're rice dependent.

[Araraukar]

Then you must be considerably light because the definition of bog is "wet muddy ground too soft to support a heavy body."

OOC: The picture you had was a pond, not a bog.

But do note what I actually wrote:

... I've actually been to picking all the Nordic berries in their natural environments

I don't know how they're farmed over where you live, but I'll believe what Aclion said. Also, banning aquaculture entirely would be a fucking stupid idea.

Finland is like "the promised land of various types of swamps", which covers everything from wet forestland to bogs where you need to be careful about which particular patch of floating moss you trust your weight on. And yes, I've been to that latter type, which is what "bog" translates to, and no, you don't need a boat. You just need a sturdy stick (or a ski pole) to check the carrying ability of the moss before you put your weight on it. Cloudberries and cranberries like those bogs as places to grow on.

[Dirty Americans]

I don't know how they're farmed over where you live, but I'll believe what Aclion said. Also, banning aquaculture entirely would be a fucking stupid idea.

I wasn't trying to ban them, I was trying to exempt them. But since you clearly won't let me I won't bother.

[Araraukar]

I was trying to exempt them.

OOC: Aclion put it best:

I think you need to step back and rethink the way you approach agricultural runoff.

[Dirty Americans]

Fine, whatever. I withdraw my proposal.

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