[DRAFT] Space Research Act

[Araraukar]

OOC: Why was this submitted? It doesn't look anywhere near ready.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Seems to be a thing with new players everywhere: rushing to submit before reviewing the implications.

[United Massachusetts]

It was submitted to check the legality at present. Calm down folks.

[Frisbeeteria]

It was submitted to check the legality at present.

Don't do that. It's extremely annoying to those who have to research legality. Just friggin' ask in the thread.

[Masuicca]

It was submitted to check the legality at present.

Don't do that. It's extremely annoying to those who have to research legality. Just friggin' ask in the thread.

OOC: I telegrammed a Secretariat and asked for help in the WA Discord thread, MULTIPLE times. Got ZERO help. Didn't know what else to do so I took the advice of more experienced players.

[Bears Armed]

OOC
I generally don't have enough time to follow Discord as well as this forum. Questions posted here, I'll generally answer when I can unless they've already bee answered decisively [and, in my opinion, correctly] enough by other people: Questions posted there, however, I probably won't even see...

[Masuicca]

OOC
I generally don't have enough time to follow Discord as well as this forum. Questions posted here, I'll generally answer when I can unless they've already bee answered decisively [and, in my opinion, correctly] enough by other people: Questions posted there, however, I probably won't even see...

OOC: Yeah, I hate to have caused a lot of confusion. We've been tinkering with this resolution for a couple weeks now in-region, and were pretty happy with it. Got it over here and our one major concern was over the category, discussed in house. Changed the resolution up at Araraukar's suggestion, then took it BACK in house to the region where we edited some more. I telegrammed Separatist Peoples for help on how to verify the legal side of an issue before submitting, and the exact answer I got was "The General Assembly". With no other help forthcoming, I turned to people more experienced than I who have been writing resolutions for years.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Don't do that. It's extremely annoying to those who have to research legality. Just friggin' ask in the thread.

OOC: I telegrammed a Secretariat and asked for help in the WA Discord thread, MULTIPLE times. Got ZERO help. Didn't know what else to do so I took the advice of more experienced players.

This has been posted as a draft for less than five days. Since I last looked at this thread, you've had at least two different updated versions. Now I'm looking at it again.

Patience, grasshopper.

---

I don't see anything illegal here. But it is sure as hell not yet ready to be submitted. Particularly, your definition is unclear: is an Impact Event defined as an orbit-crossing, or is it listed there as a condition to watch out for in addition to an orbit-crossing?

[Masuicca]

OOC: I telegrammed a Secretariat and asked for help in the WA Discord thread, MULTIPLE times. Got ZERO help. Didn't know what else to do so I took the advice of more experienced players.

This has been posted as a draft for less than five days. Since I last looked at this thread, you've had at least two different updated versions. Now I'm looking at it again.

Patience, grasshopper.

---

I don't see anything illegal here. But it is sure as hell not yet ready to be submitted. Particularly, your definition is unclear: is an Impact Event defined as an orbit-crossing, or is it listed there as a condition to watch out for in addition to an orbit-crossing?

OOC: It was here for five days; it's been an idea for weeks now, and been drafted in our regional ministry almost as long with the guidance of experienced players. Help was sought all during that point, because while many in-house are experienced, I am not. This was as much a training run as anything, and it obviously bombed out. But please do not act like this is all a matter of impatience or a noob that doesn't know what she's doing, because that's really not fair to me at all. I've been seeking help from players for several weeks now, whether it was here gameside, on the Discord, in-region from veterans, telegramming people. I sought help, I received help from multiple people, and I took consensus over the best course of action. Hindsight being 20/20, it turned out not to be the right course. It was an honest mistake, and I apologize. Certainly as a new player, the last thing I ever wanted to do was cause a hubbub.

[Araraukar]

OOC: It was here for five days; it's been an idea for weeks now

OOC: Which, considering that none of us are telepaths, means nothing at all.

and been drafted in our regional ministry almost as long with the guidance of experienced players.

Clearly not experienced enough. (But say hi to Queen Yuno from me. )

But please do not act like this is all a matter of impatience or a noob that doesn't know what she's doing, because that's really not fair to me at all.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, calling it a duck is only natural...

I've been seeking help from players for several weeks now, whether it was here gameside, on the Discord, in-region from veterans, telegramming people.

Again, all of that was not on this forum. Offsite places aren't really the best places of getting the attention of multiple GAers, as not all of us subscribe to Discord or other such things. Also, the GenSec peeps can't, to my knowledge, give official opinions (the kind that might lead to a ruling) outside of NS forums (since the opinions would need to be "logged" on the NS site). And gameside stuff generally means regional message boards, which, again, most of us don't bother with outside of one's own region anyway.

It was an honest mistake, and I apologize. Certainly as a new player, the last thing I ever wanted to do was cause a hubbub.

You don't really have to apologize if you take the advice given (longer drafting, taking opinions from others but GenSec peeps, drafting it here, and applying advice on how to make it better).

If it helps, most newbies act just like you; post a draft, submit a draft, get upset when they're called out for doing it. Causing a hubbub as a newbie is normal. You can deviate from the next "normal" step by not changing one word and resubmitting it rightaway...

EDIT: Out of interest, who were these "experienced players" in your region that gave you advice or actively helped in drafting?

[Masuicca]

-snip-

OOC: Quite a few people were helping me get the ball rolling, actually. The East Pacific's World Assembly Affairs program all had open cracks at revisions in our regional forums, and the conversations in our Discord server. Also had some help from United Massachusetts after our group went through it. Also received some counsel from some WA regulars in the Discord meet up on style issues, questions about co-authorship and other things that were raised at different points during the discussion in the regional group. I'd have to scroll back a ways on their server to find the discussions though. Then there was the aforementioned telegram conversation attempt with the Secretariat. At one point there was probably six or seven people weighing in on the proposal in some forum or another, discounting the discussion that's gone on here so far.

Regardless, I chalk this up as a good (if painful) learning experience. I would have preferred not to have such a kerfluffle so early into my time in these forums, but it wouldn't be the first time I've botched the landing at NS. I pulled the resolution from the queue, and will return to the drafting process here. When given the choice between rushing the proposal through to get a vote, or getting the draft right here, I will certainly defer to the latter course of action.

[United Massachusetts]

I'm sorry. It was my reccommendation. You shouldn't assault the OP. Assault myself. I was responsible. Let's not assassinate him. I'm far from experienced enough to render a judgement, but presumed it legal.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: I don't see the issue. It looks fine to me.

[Masuicca]

I'm sorry. It was my reccommendation. You shouldn't assault the OP. Assault myself. I was responsible. Let's not assassinate him. I'm far from experienced enough to render a judgement, but presumed it legal.

OOC: Not an assassination, just a learning experience gone awry. The resolution is back to draft status here, and it's time to move past this and back into the drafting discussion. I'll learn from it and move forward.

[Tinfect]

Even now, the definitions of what it means to govern matters relating to Outer Space are being hotly debated within delegation circles.

"This drafting effort is the only such debate in recent times." Says Seretis, making a point of stepping in front of Feren before he had an opportunity to speak.

It could be argued that this Assembly's efforts to regulate affairs beyond our terrestrial home has only just begin to take form.

"And better argued that extant law on the matter of Space is entirely sufficient."

Thus far, it would seem that the governance of affairs relating to Outer Space have been borne of a specific purpose: to regulate what member states can put into orbit, and the process by which they manage their space programs.

"As such is reasonable grounds for international legislation, especially considering those less-advanced Member-States, or those which share their worlds with other Nations."

Unfortunately, no legal remedy has yet been proposed to deal with an equally-important aspect of space exploration and observation: the threat posed by asteroids, comets, and other naturally-occurring phenomena.

"Neither are the place of the World Assembly, Ambassador. If a Member-State is threatened by such celestial objects, it is their concern, and neither the World Assembly nor other Member-States need be involved, barring the request of the Member-State in question."

We believe that this proposed resolution will allow this Assembly its first steps into addressing this vital security threat to its member states, without compromising the industrial capacity, military autonomy or individual state sovereignty in the process.

"Then you are simply incorrect."

Education and Creativity

OOC:
There is absolutely no way in hell that this is E&C. I can sort of see it fitting International Security, but that's about it.
IC:

RECOGNIZING the threat posed by the existence of Potentially Hazardous Objects (PHOs) in outer space to all sovereign states;

"Which is of course, quite minimal." Says Feren, taking over from Seretis, "Sapient life develops on worlds frequently impacted by substantial objects quite rarely, and in those instances I can only imagine that they are accustomed to such things, and thus will not pose a significant disruption."

DEFINING, for the purposes of this resolution, a Potentially Hazardous Object as:
Any naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon, including (but not limited to) asteroids, comets and meteroids that pose a significant risk to sentient life and property in the event of an Impact Episode, or event where a naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon crosses the orbit of an inhabited planet, causing an impact to occur.

"Sentient life cannot hold property, Ambassador; unless your Government places simple Insects on par with Sapient life."

MANDATES that the World Assembly Scientific Programme (WASP) adopt the following initiatives:
Create the necessary infrastructure to detect and monitor Potentially Hazardous Objects in outer space;

"The World Assembly will construct or operate no such facilities within the Imperium. Member-States are more than capable of doing so themselves, and those that are not undoubtedly lack the capacity to respond to any such threats. Further, the Imperium has been doing so for over three centuries, and we do not require nor desire any World Assembly interference in the continued monitoring of our own territory."

Establish an international registry of known Potentially Hazardous Objects that pose the risk of creating an Impact Episode, and making the information therein available to all member-states of the World Assembly upon request;

"The specifics of the Imperial Territories are not to be unilaterally handed to foreign entities for any reason."

DIRECTS the World Assembly Scientific Programme to assist in the promotion of cooperation among the academic and scientific communities of the individual member states.

"The Imperium would prefer to avoid increasing the volume of strongly-worded letters of 'cooperation' that are incinerated on a regular basis, Ambassador.

"To conclude, the Imperium sees no necessity for this legislation, and finds its mandates unreasonable and poorly-researched. We will not provide support for this legislation, nor any further variation upon it."

[Araraukar]

but presumed it legal.

OOC: The point here is "legal =/= good". But I think you (and OP) are overreacting a bit. Nobody's hating them or "assassinating" or anything like that. Like I said in my last post, newbies make newbie mistakes, it's not a big deal.

As for the category, like I said before...

If you're rewriting for Education, it needs to be actually rewritten, not just tagging on a different category. I think that if you emphasize the research being civilian, and encourage cooperation with centers of higher learning (universities, for example), it'll be a fit for Education And Creativity - Educational.

[United Massachusetts]

but presumed it legal.

OOC: The point here is "legal =/= good". But I think you (and OP) are overreacting a bit. Nobody's hating them or "assassinating" or anything like that. Like I said in my last post, newbies make newbie mistakes, it's not a big deal.

As for the category, like I said before...

If you're rewriting for Education, it needs to be actually rewritten, not just tagging on a different category. I think that if you emphasize the research being civilian, and encourage cooperation with centers of higher learning (universities, for example), it'll be a fit for Education And Creativity - Educational.

OK. I merely proposed submission to check legality.

I still support International Security--Mild.

[Wallenburg]

What is an "Impact Episode"?

[Araraukar]

OK. I merely proposed submission to check legality.

OOC: Which is a bad thing to teach to a newbie. You shouldn't do that.

I still support International Security--Mild.

Then it still needs a rewrite.

To OP: Right now too tired to be able to think in Legalese, but I'll have a new look at it tomorrow (Thursday) or latest the day after.

[Masuicca]

What is an "Impact Episode"?

DEFINING, for the purposes of this resolution, a Potentially Hazardous Object as:

Any naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon, including (but not limited to) asteroids, comets and meteroids that pose a significant risk to sentient life and property in the event of an Impact Episode, or event where a naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon crosses the orbit of an inhabited planet, causing an impact to occur.

OOC: The original conceit was to establish something different from the resolution on space debris, since that was concerned with space junk, basically. Naturally-occurring astronomical bodies - asteroids, comets, etc. - that are not currently in orbit around any world inhabited by a member state of the WA, which crosses said planet's orbit, causing that body to impact the surface of the planet.

[Separatist Peoples]

What is an "Impact Episode"?

DEFINING, for the purposes of this resolution, a Potentially Hazardous Object as:

Any naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon, including (but not limited to) asteroids, comets and meteroids that pose a significant risk to sentient life and property in the event of an Impact Episode, or event where a naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon crosses the orbit of an inhabited planet, causing an impact to occur.

OOC: The original conceit was to establish something different from the resolution on space debris, since that was concerned with space junk, basically. Naturally-occurring astronomical bodies - asteroids, comets, etc. - that are not currently in orbit around any world inhabited by a member state of the WA, which crosses said planet's orbit, causing that body to impact the surface of the planet.

OOC: A definition in a definition isn't ideal.

[Masuicca]

DEFINING, for the purposes of this resolution, a Potentially Hazardous Object as:

Any naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon, including (but not limited to) asteroids, comets and meteroids that pose a significant risk to sentient life and property in the event of an Impact Episode, or event where a naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon crosses the orbit of an inhabited planet, causing an impact to occur.

OOC: The original conceit was to establish something different from the resolution on space debris, since that was concerned with space junk, basically. Naturally-occurring astronomical bodies - asteroids, comets, etc. - that are not currently in orbit around any world inhabited by a member state of the WA, which crosses said planet's orbit, causing that body to impact the surface of the planet.

OOC: A definition in a definition isn't ideal.

OOC: It's a holdover from one of the first drafts. We were worried about the length of the resolution, so I compounded it to compensate. I think the big issue is going to be settling on a category, because the category choice will direct the overarching purpose of the resolution. If it stays in Education, I'm beginning to think getting that definition out isn't the worst idea, replacing it with a different focus entirely.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: A definition in a definition isn't ideal.

OOC: It's a holdover from one of the first drafts. We were worried about the length of the resolution, so I compounded it to compensate. I think the big issue is going to be settling on a category, because the category choice will direct the overarching purpose of the resolution. If it stays in Education, I'm beginning to think getting that definition out isn't the worst idea, replacing it with a different focus entirely.

OOC: E&C is probably a good bet, since you aren't looking to divert doomsday asteroids, but I think you're closer than it looks.

[Wallenburg]

What is an "Impact Episode"?

DEFINING, for the purposes of this resolution, a Potentially Hazardous Object as:

Any naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon, including (but not limited to) asteroids, comets and meteroids that pose a significant risk to sentient life and property in the event of an Impact Episode, or event where a naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon crosses the orbit of an inhabited planet, causing an impact to occur.

As SP has expressed, separate definitions would present a more ideal situation.

[Masuicca]

DEFINING, for the purposes of this resolution, a Potentially Hazardous Object as:

Any naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon, including (but not limited to) asteroids, comets and meteroids that pose a significant risk to sentient life and property in the event of an Impact Episode, or event where a naturally-occurring astronomical body or phenomenon crosses the orbit of an inhabited planet, causing an impact to occur.

As SP has expressed, separate definitions would present a more ideal situation.

OOC: Here is an area that might be good to discuss - the definition is actually a holdover from the original draft, which was more based around monitoring for asteroids and comets as a defensive strategy. The current draft is more of a research package that utilizes WASP to help coordinate academic and scientific cooperation in matters of outer space research. Part of me thinks rewriting the issue may be best if we continue down the E&C path.