[Submitted] Escort Health Act & Escort Education Act

[Willania Imperium]

OOC: The point of his sarcasm went right past you. He tried to show a flaw to your argument, and you're all like "lol".

I recognized the flaw - it didn't bother me - Instead of getting bent out of shape and complaining - I enjoyed the sarcasm.

OOC: So you choose to ignore it? That is basically saying you refuse to listen to reason and continue to listen to your flawed ideas. Recognizing the flaw isn't enough. You have to act upon it and improve from it.

[United Republic Empire]

I recognized the flaw - it didn't bother me - Instead of getting bent out of shape and complaining - I enjoyed the sarcasm.

OOC: So you choose to ignore it? That is basically saying you refuse to listen to reason and continue to listen to your flawed ideas. Recognizing the flaw isn't enough. You have to act upon it and improve from it.

versus arguing and complaining yes - as I've said before we might be going a different route in the future.

[Willania Imperium]

OOC: So you choose to ignore it? That is basically saying you refuse to listen to reason and continue to listen to your flawed ideas. Recognizing the flaw isn't enough. You have to act upon it and improve from it.

versus arguing and complaining yes - as I've said before we might be going a different route in the future.

OOC: I can't believe you. You've chosen to ignore a deep flaw in this proposal just so you don't have to defend it? Ignoring the criticisms of others and the flaws pointed out is a dumb way to react, as it portrays you as someone unwilling to listen and full of themselves. You have not just lost my support. You lost my respect.

[United Republic Empire]

versus arguing and complaining yes - as I've said before we might be going a different route in the future.

OOC: I can't believe you. You've chosen to ignore a deep flaw in this proposal just so you don't have to defend it? Ignoring the criticisms of others and the flaws pointed out is a dumb way to react, as it portrays you as someone unwilling to listen and full of themselves. You have not just lost my support. You lost my respect.

Overreact much - Just because I choose to enjoy someone else's sarcasm towards me does not mean that I ignored any flaws. Did I not say that we might be going a different route in the future ?? - as that right there means yes we see some flaws and are willing to work on them. Also if someone criticises you are you really supposed to pitch a fit and cry about it or let it go instead.

[Willania Imperium]

OOC: I can't believe you. You've chosen to ignore a deep flaw in this proposal just so you don't have to defend it? Ignoring the criticisms of others and the flaws pointed out is a dumb way to react, as it portrays you as someone unwilling to listen and full of themselves. You have not just lost my support. You lost my respect.

Overreact much - Just because I choose to enjoy someone else's sarcasm towards me does not mean that I ignored any flaws. Did I not say that we might be going a different route in the future ?? - as that right there means yes we see some flaws and are willing to work on them. Also if someone criticises you are you really supposed to pitch a fit and cry about it or let it go instead.

OOC: You answered my question of whether or not you chose to ignore the flaw by typing, "versus arguing and complaining yes." You have verified that you have ignored the flaw in a previous post, yet now claim you didn't? That is a form of hypocrisy.

As for your claim that you will be going a different route in the future, you did say that. But delaying improvements instead of acting on them now is still not acceptable. It shows that you are too lazy to change your mistakes and willing to let mistakes pass by instead of fixing them when they appear. While it is good you'll avoid them in the future, not fixing them now is still not tolerable.

For criticism, you're not supposed to just ignore it! Criticism is to help you improve. You need to listen to it and apply it. Even if it may be a bit rude or seems insulting. It serves to help you improve your drafts and make it successful. And ignoring them instead is something a child would do. It shows you are incapable of listening and only wants to listen to yourself. That sounds narcissistic.

Listen, it's not too late. Just withdraw it and redraft it according to our criticisms. If you do, we might find some common ground and build up from there. But this attitude of yours of ignoring us and not seizing the opportunity to fix what is wrong will only tarnish what is left of your reputation. Please, listen.

[The New California Republic]

OOC: The point of his sarcasm went right past you. He tried to show a flaw to your argument, and you're all like "lol".

I recognized the flaw - it didn't bother me - Instead of getting bent out of shape and complaining - I enjoyed the sarcasm.

OOC: You enjoyed his sarcasm only by ignoring the point of said sarcasm. That has to be the most obscene act of selective deafness that I have ever seen...

[Frisbeeteria]

Except I've already refuted the claim with BA in earlier posts.

No, you made your case against the claim. That doesn't make your opinion correct.

Herein lies the fundamental problem with your arguments: you consider anything you say to be definitive, and anything said by anyone else to be disposable. Given that you're inherently always correct in your mind's eye, there is no point in making any other arguments. Any further discussion will be futile.

May you continue to have many happy failures. Hopefully the rest of us won't have to suffer along.

[United Republic Empire]

Overreact much - Just because I choose to enjoy someone else's sarcasm towards me does not mean that I ignored any flaws. Did I not say that we might be going a different route in the future ?? - as that right there means yes we see some flaws and are willing to work on them. Also if someone criticises you are you really supposed to pitch a fit and cry about it or let it go instead.

OOC: You answered my question of whether or not you chose to ignore the flaw by typing, "versus arguing and complaining yes." You have verified that you have ignored the flaw in a previous post, yet now claim you didn't? That is a form of hypocrisy.

As for your claim that you will be going a different route in the future, you did say that. But delaying improvements instead of acting on them now is still not acceptable. It shows that you are too lazy to change your mistakes and willing to let mistakes pass by instead of fixing them when they appear. While it is good you'll avoid them in the future, not fixing them now is still not tolerable.

For criticism, you're not supposed to just ignore it! Criticism is to help you improve. You need to listen to it and apply it. Even if it may be a bit rude or seems insulting. It serves to help you improve your drafts and make it successful. And ignoring them instead is something a child would do. It shows you are incapable of listening and only wants to listen to yourself. That sounds narcissistic.

Listen, it's not too late. Just withdraw it and redraft it according to our criticisms. If you do, we might find some common ground and build up from there. But this attitude of yours of ignoring us and not seizing the opportunity to fix what is wrong will only tarnish what is left of your reputation. Please, listen.

We've been re-working on it on our forums - we will bring it here sometime tomorrow.

[United Republic Empire]

Except I've already refuted the claim with BA in earlier posts.

No, you made your case against the claim. That doesn't make your opinion correct.

Herein lies the fundamental problem with your arguments: you consider anything you say to be definitive, and anything said by anyone else to be disposable. Given that you're inherently always correct in your mind's eye, there is no point in making any other arguments. Any further discussion will be futile.

May you continue to have many happy failures. Hopefully the rest of us won't have to suffer along.

No what makes it correct are the facts not my opinion. Also thank you for the best of wishes you're kind words meant everything.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: this is interesting. I think the first, the Health act, is legal, but the Education act is illegal.

Access to heathcare generally means access to a very specific kind of healthcare in this capacity. Escorts, like the common whore, are a particularly vulnerable group with specific sexual health risks which don't go into a general healthcare perspective. Conversely, you don't need any different education as a former sex worker as you would as a former coal miner. As such, the protections for education look like a protection of a right already defended under GAR#35, as it's a right to the general public. Specific healthcare concerns are not.

So, one is legal, the other is not, to my mind.

That said, this is still terrible. My cat has done better walking across the keyboard, and I would love to see it fail. BUT, that doesn't affect whether something is legal.

[The New California Republic]

My cat has done better walking across the keyboard

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: I'm fairly sure you need SP's permission to siggy a quote from him...

Just as a modnote, you don't need permission per se. As a matter of etiquette it is probably polite to ask, but it would be the rare situation where a quote would need to be pulled by the mods.

OOC: Permission which is not forthcoming, as I am a curmudgeon, but I doubt it will stop anybody.

[Araraukar]

OOC: If you guys were given properly constructive feedback despite the fucking stupid proposal idea, would you withdraw the two proposals and actually work on them based on feedback rather than your own, obviously inadequate law-writing abilities?

I say "obviously inadequate" because of the large number of problems with them.

[Deropia]

OOC: Well, we await the opportunity to critique another critically flawed piece of legislation, and watch the input be ignored.

[Dirty Americans]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...

Status: Lacking Support (requires 24 more approvals)
Status: Lacking Support (requires 28 more approvals)

Voting Ends: in 15 hours

And it's not like we are going to see a telegram campaign in a couple of hours.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

OOC: this is interesting. I think the first, the Health act, is legal, but the Education act is illegal.

Access to heathcare generally means access to a very specific kind of healthcare in this capacity. Escorts, like the common whore, are a particularly vulnerable group with specific sexual health risks which don't go into a general healthcare perspective. Conversely, you don't need any different education as a former sex worker as you would as a former coal miner. As such, the protections for education look like a protection of a right already defended under GAR#35, as it's a right to the general public. Specific healthcare concerns are not.

So, one is legal, the other is not, to my mind.

That said, this is still terrible. My cat has done better walking across the keyboard, and I would love to see it fail. BUT, that doesn't affect whether something is legal.

I think this analysis would hold... if the definition of "escort" were actually restricted to sex workers. But since in this proposal "escort" means anything from a sex worker to a mercenary to a birthday party clown, the specificity of healthcare needs is out the window. Between GAR #97 and GAR #80 as enforced by GAR #35, these acts do nothing not already done, and to the extent they do, there is no compelling practical purpose for it.

I am (finally) prepared to render a verdict of illegal, on both proposals.

[Frisbeeteria]

But since in this proposal "escort" means anything from a sex worker to a mercenary to a birthday party clown,

Let's not forget dog walkers, home health care aides, taxi and bus drivers, tour guides, bartenders, and probably half a hundred other professional groups. That definition is a train wreck ... which reminds me to include flight attendants, jailers, and ambulance personnel.

[Oresland]

OOC: Well then, it seems that we only have to worry about one proposal now. Unless we see a last minute campaign TG, then this will fade away into obscurity. Well, let's see where this goes next.

[Separatist Peoples]

But since in this proposal "escort" means anything from a sex worker to a mercenary to a birthday party clown,

Let's not forget dog walkers, home health care aides, taxi and bus drivers, tour guides, bartenders, and probably half a hundred other professional groups. That definition is a train wreck ... which reminds me to include flight attendants, jailers, and ambulance personnel.

OOC: this is interesting. I think the first, the Health act, is legal, but the Education act is illegal.

Access to heathcare generally means access to a very specific kind of healthcare in this capacity. Escorts, like the common whore, are a particularly vulnerable group with specific sexual health risks which don't go into a general healthcare perspective. Conversely, you don't need any different education as a former sex worker as you would as a former coal miner. As such, the protections for education look like a protection of a right already defended under GAR#35, as it's a right to the general public. Specific healthcare concerns are not.

So, one is legal, the other is not, to my mind.

That said, this is still terrible. My cat has done better walking across the keyboard, and I would love to see it fail. BUT, that doesn't affect whether something is legal.

I think this analysis would hold... if the definition of "escort" were actually restricted to sex workers. But since in this proposal "escort" means anything from a sex worker to a mercenary to a birthday party clown, the specificity of healthcare needs is out the window. Between GAR #97 and GAR #80 as enforced by GAR #35, these acts do nothing not already done, and to the extent they do, there is no compelling practical purpose for it.

I am (finally) prepared to render a verdict of illegal, on both proposals.

Well, I suppose that's a convincing enough analysis.

[Willania Imperium]

OOC; Now both are illegal. Thank God for that. I don't see how they'll be able to dig themselves out of that.

[Oresland]

OOC; Now both are illegal. Thank God for that. I don't see how they'll be able to dig themselves out of that.

OOC: It wouldn't have reached quorum anyway. Not that it matters at this point. We'll see if OP has anything else to offer.

[The New California Republic]

OOC: Both ruled illegal. I wonder if the author/s will cry foul, as they did when their previous proposal was deemed illegal? We will have to wait and see. But then again, this would have been spotted if any attempt had been made to put drafts on here, as contradictions are noticed fairly quickly when there are...

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: Both ruled illegal.

The following was their telegram,

Dear Delegates of the world assembly. I, United Republic Empire, ask for your support in passing both or either one of the Escort Health Act and the Escort Education Act to reach quorum and allow the members of the WA to decide for themselves whether to accept this proposal or decline it. I believe the members of the WA are capable of making an intelligent decision on voting of proposals. The Escort Health Act aims to provide better healthcare opportunities for employees. The Escort Education act aims to provide better education opportunities for employees. Even if you may not support the proposal I request that you at the very least take a moment of your time to read it and leave some feedback on the forum topic. I've chosen to offer these proposals in this way so that other members of the WA can have a piece of the cake too by creating their own proposals for employees they want to have the same.

link to Escort Health Act

link to Escort Education Act

We are over half way to making it to quorum as are other members proposals. (so if you could support their proposals as well as mine please & thank you). I like seeing activity flourishing within the WA and members having something to vote on as well.

Pass or Fail..I appreciate any and all the feedback along with any support given. (Any questions, just telegram me. I will be happy to answer them to the best of my ability)

Kind Regards,
United Republic Empire
WA delegate to Enadia

P.S. GenSec has voted in favor of both being Legal

I will note that when it was sent, it was accurate.

[Christian Democrats]

Upon reading Separatist Peoples' post above and upon further consideration, I do not think I would vote legal again if these proposals were resubmitted. My new opinion is that they're consistent with Section 1(c) of COCR but not with Section 1(a).

[Bears Armed]

OOC: You used that platitude wrong. That applies to recycling, or to thrift shops where people pick and choose what they want. It also only works for trash that could actually has some value to someone- I dare you to find someone who would be happy to stumble across a fetid pile of dog poop.

OOC: Tanners used to buy that in RL, at least as recently as the mid-19th century, for use in tanning leather...