Elimination of Nuclear Weapons

[Gig em Aggies]

"I would love to see your country try to bomb us, a multiplanetary state whose closest planet is 54 light years away from you. Your threats, of course, pose a very interesting question - does your country have a nuclear weapons stockpile? I took a look through your factbooks and in fact, the UNAC publicly states that it has 6600 nuclear warheads prepared at the moment with active production of 20 a year. Is it not hypocritical, Ambassador, to suggest that the World Assembly give up its nuclear weapons when your country itself maintains a stockpile and actively produces nuclear weapons? Is it not hypocritical that you ask the nations of the Assembly to disarm when you are threatening to use them?"

I am willing to disarm them if a repeal is passed. Also I have far greater weapons at my disposal.

Please do tell. If you have greater weapons at your disposal then why have nukes at all? My nation gave up nukes only because they didn't offer up enough power for my needs so I created even deadlier weapons some much smaller then nukes that can rid the universe of an entire planet in mere minutes.

[Willania Imperium]

"I would love to see your country try to bomb us, a multiplanetary state whose closest planet is 54 light years away from you. Your threats, of course, pose a very interesting question - does your country have a nuclear weapons stockpile? I took a look through your factbooks and in fact, the UNAC publicly states that it has 6600 nuclear warheads prepared at the moment with active production of 20 a year. Is it not hypocritical, Ambassador, to suggest that the World Assembly give up its nuclear weapons when your country itself maintains a stockpile and actively produces nuclear weapons? Is it not hypocritical that you ask the nations of the Assembly to disarm when you are threatening to use them?"

I am willing to disarm them if a repeal is passed. Also I have far greater weapons at my disposal.

"Yes, well, this isn't a competition over who can bomb who back to the Middle Ages. This here is about your draft, and you have yet to apply our objections to it. If you would just go ahead and do it, that would be great.:"

[Thermodolia]

"Please dispense with threats that you have no means of carrying out."

Your talking to a nation that has over 6,000 nuclear weapons and increasing with reliable ways of delivering them.

"Ambassador at one point we had 20 times the amount you currently have. At the moment we have 5 times the amount you have, and we can produce 1,000 nukes per year. We can strike anywhere in the world within 4 minutes. Any threat against us or any other nation of this assembly will be seen as an act of war and we will act accordingly."

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

"Please dispense with threats that you have no means of carrying out."

Your talking to a nation that has over 6,000 nuclear weapons and increasing with reliable ways of delivering them.

if you should ever try we will eject the atmosphere above your puny state into outer space with 15.4 gigatons of explosive power.

[The New California Republic]

"Please dispense with threats that you have no means of carrying out."

Your talking to a nation that has over 6,000 nuclear weapons and increasing with reliable ways of delivering them.

"The New California Republic was born out of a sea of nuclear fire, you can do absolutely nothing to us that we haven't experienced already. The threats by the Ambassador are quite frankly pitiful."

[Nullite]

A nuclear threat is stopped by nukes, so I have no problems with stockpiling my arsenal. I keep to myself, and so no one feels threatened by me. I am against the dis-nuking of the WA member states fully.

[United North American Commonwealths]

Nuclear Arms Possession Act”
A proposal to repeal a previously passed WA resolution #10

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #10
[proposal=][/proposal]Proposed by: Federation of United North American Commonwealths

Description:
Understanding that WA members are allowed to possess nuclear weapons to defend themselves from hostile nations and realizing that the WA members need to be able to defend themselves if attacked.

Also acknowledging that non-member states are not required to abide by WA proposals,

Recognizing that nuclear weapons are not required to defend a nation from outside forces,
But the abolition of nuclear weapons is an urgent humanitarian necessity. Any use of nuclear weapons would have catastrophic consequences. No effective humanitarian response would be possible, and the effects of radiation on human beings would cause suffering and death many years after the initial explosion. Prohibiting and completely eliminating nuclear weapons is the only guarantee against their use.

Even if a nuclear weapon were never again exploded over a city, there are intolerable effects from the production, testing and deployment of nuclear arsenals that are experienced as an ongoing personal and community catastrophe by many people around the globe. This humanitarian harm, too, must inform and motivate efforts to outlaw and eradicate nuclear weapons.

Also, Nuclear weapons are the only devices ever created that have the capacity to destroy all complex life forms on Earth. It would take less than 0.1% of the explosive yield of the current global nuclear arsenal to bring about devastating agricultural collapse and widespread famine. The smoke and dust from fewer than 100 Hiroshima-sized nuclear explosions would cause an abrupt drop in global temperatures and rainfall.

The World Assembly hereby repeals “Nuclear Arms Possession Act.”

[The Sheika]

You're determined, I will give you that. Let's take a look at what you have.

Nuclear Arms Possession Act”
A proposal to repeal a previously passed WA resolution #10

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #10
[proposal=][/proposal]Proposed by: Federation of United North American Commonwealths

Description:
Understanding that WA members are allowed to possess nuclear weapons to defend themselves from hostile nations and realizing that the WA members need to be able to defend themselves if attacked.

Right out of the gate, you give your opposition the ammunition they need to start a solid debate against your cause. Although you may dislike the use of nuclear weapons, having them as a deterrent is very effective.

Also acknowledging that non-member states are not required to abide by WA proposals,

Further cementing the argument on why the possession of nuclear weapons is a necessary evil.

Recognizing that nuclear weapons are not required to defend a nation from outside forces,

Based upon what exactly?

But the abolition of nuclear weapons is an urgent humanitarian necessity. Any use of nuclear weapons would have catastrophic consequences. No effective humanitarian response would be possible, and the effects of radiation on human beings would cause suffering and death many years after the initial explosion. Prohibiting and completely eliminating nuclear weapons is the only guarantee against their use.

A word to the wise here; keeping your proposal human-centric could potentially damage any chance of support you would have from non-human member states.

Even if a nuclear weapon were never again exploded over a city, there are intolerable effects from the production, testing and deployment of nuclear arsenals that are experienced as an ongoing personal and community catastrophe by many people around the globe. This humanitarian harm, too, must inform and motivate efforts to outlaw and eradicate nuclear weapons.

Also, Nuclear weapons are the only devices ever created that have the capacity to destroy all complex life forms on Earth. It would take less than 0.1% of the explosive yield of the current global nuclear arsenal to bring about devastating agricultural collapse and widespread famine. The smoke and dust from fewer than 100 Hiroshima-sized nuclear explosions would cause an abrupt drop in global temperatures and rainfall.

The World Assembly hereby repeals “Nuclear Arms Possession Act.”

OOC:Okay, real life references make this illegal. NS =/= Earth. Even member states that declare themselves as being on Earth may not necessarily be in the same time period as you. Events such as the bombing of Hiroshima may not have taken place, or didn't happen, or Hiroshima may not exist.

IC: You definitely have determination, but you have quite a fight ahead of you. I understand that you dislike nuclear weapons, and can respect your nation if you choose to dispose of them, but I and I am sure many others see them as a necessary evil.

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

"Repeal Nuclear Arms Possession Act”
A proposal to repeal a previously passed WA resolution #10

OOC: First problem right off the bat: Only ONE proposal per thread and only one thread per proposal.

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #10
Proposed by: Federation of United North American Commonwealths

Description:
Understanding that WA members are allowed to possess nuclear weapons to defend themselves from hostile nations and realizing that the WA members need to be able to defend themselves if attacked.

Also acknowledging that non-member states are not required to abide by WA proposals,[/quote]

Teran Saber: "Which is why possession of nuclear weapons is allowed and encouraged by the WA."

Recognizing that nuclear weapons are not required to defend a nation from outside forces,

Teran Saber: "It's required if you want to keep a nuclear-armed nation from attacking you in the first place, assuming you don't have anything even more powerful. This is what you keep ignoring. I suggest you ACTUALLY LISTEN TO INPUT rather than just ignoring everything and pushing your agenda."

"I'm honestly tempted to push President Raiden Boltfang to declare war on your nation just so that we can show what happens when people have no reason NOT to attack you. After all, it's not like you'd be able to chase one of our ships out of a geosynchronous orbit. The whole point of having WMDs is that the simple threat of their use would prevent an enemy from attacking, lest they be annihilated in retaliation."

"I believe there's a quote from one of your science fiction movies... 'Fear will keep the systems in line. Fear of this battlestation'. I don't agree with what it insinuates, but that's the general idea. Another quote from a different movie goes 'The best weapon is one you only ever have to fire ONCE'."

But the abolition of nuclear weapons is an urgent humanitarian necessity. Any use of nuclear weapons would have catastrophic consequences. No effective humanitarian response would be possible, and the effects of radiation on human beings would cause suffering and death many years after the initial explosion. Prohibiting and completely eliminating nuclear weapons is the only guarantee against their use.

Teran Saber: "You obviously don't even understand the concept of a deterrent. I have no argument against the fact that nuclear weapons cause MASSIVE damage. Thing is, only a suicidal madman would ever try to launch one offensively - because the immediate response to doing so would be to nuke the shit out of his nation in retaliation. In short, if you nuke someone unprovoked, you get nuked back. And I can guarantee that no reasonable nation would EVER want to be on the receiving end of The Bomb."

Even if a nuclear weapon were never again exploded over a city, there are intolerable effects from the production, testing and deployment of nuclear arsenals that are experienced as an ongoing personal and community catastrophe by many people around the globe. This humanitarian harm, too, must inform and motivate efforts to outlaw and eradicate nuclear weapons.

Teran Saber: "So, you also want to ban uranium mining? The environmental benefits of nuclear power, particularly the elimination of greenhouse gas emissions and the overall MASSIVE energy density of uranium fuel thus leading to fewer stations and less materials consumed overall outweigh the impact of mining uranium. But who cares about that, right? Surely the only reason uranium is mined is to produce EVIL NUKEZ and not to provide relatively clean and cheap energy to millions, billions or even trillions of people, or enable sustained space flight far beyond where solar panels cease to work, right?"

Also, Nuclear weapons are the only devices ever created that have the capacity to destroy all complex life forms on Earth. It would take less than 0.1% of the explosive yield of the current global nuclear arsenal to bring about devastating agricultural collapse and widespread famine. The smoke and dust from fewer than 100 Hiroshima-sized nuclear explosions would cause an abrupt drop in global temperatures and rainfall.

OOC: You've been told SEVERAL TIMES that Nationstates DOES NOT REFLECT REAL LIFE!!!!! Nations both within and outside the World Assembly run the gambit from cavemen tribes to omniversal empires. Heck, I'm playing a nation made up of cat, snake and weasel people from space, among other things - A Hiroshima-sized nuclear weapon isn't all that impressive to us when we can output comparable energy with a single high-energy laser on a starship without the long-term effects. Anyway, some nations don't even know what a nuke is, while others scoff at them for being primitive weapons that pale in comparison to their own. And outside of unified role-playing groups there's no way to determine the total amount of nuclear weapons in existence due to the fact that not all nations are canon to each other.

The World Assembly hereby repeals “Nuclear Arms Possession Act.”

Teran Saber: "And with all that said, opposed."

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The smoke and dust from fewer than 100 Hiroshima-sized nuclear explosions would cause an abrupt drop in global temperatures and rainfall.

OOC: The largest thermonuclear weapon ever detonated was 1,570 Hiroshima equivalents, in 1961. Evidently the world has not ended.
IC: If you keep insisting on being factually wrong and forcing people to surrender their ultimate arguments we shall show you a Kuzkina mat.

[The New California Republic]

The smoke and dust from fewer than 100 Hiroshima-sized nuclear explosions would cause an abrupt drop in global temperatures and rainfall.

OOC: Nonsense. Modern nuclear weapons detonate at altitude, a so called air burst, so there is not the same dust and smoke generation as a ground burst. Also, illegal for the RL reference.

[The Soviet Federation (Ancient)]

we must abolish nuclear weapons so our nation agrees to this proposal

[Willania Imperium]

we must abolish nuclear weapons so our nation agrees to this proposal

"To have our nukes abolished, we would become victim to many non-WA nations with those WMDs. We can't allow ourselves to be sitting ducks!"

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

we must abolish nuclear weapons so our nation agrees to this proposal

Teran Saber: "Banning nuclear weapons through the WA would only affect WA members. Non-members would still be free to produce and use them, and those that are hostile would no longer have a reason not to against member states. Is that what you really want?"

[The New California Republic]

we must abolish nuclear weapons so our nation agrees to this proposal

Teran Saber: "Banning nuclear weapons through the WA would only affect WA members. Non-members would still be free to produce and use them, and those that are hostile would no longer have a reason not to against member states. Is that what you really want?"

OOC: This is the reasoning that myself and others have used whenever there is an attempt to repeal Resolutions that allow WA nations to possess nuclear weapons. The fact that, in principle, non-WA nations can have limitless nuclear arsenals, is reason enough for WA nations to possess them. Most authors of the repeals seem to conveniently forget that outlawing nuclear weapons in the WA will not magically rid the world of nuclear weapons, because WA rulings do not apply to non-WA nations.

[Thermodolia]

Teran Saber: "Banning nuclear weapons through the WA would only affect WA members. Non-members would still be free to produce and use them, and those that are hostile would no longer have a reason not to against member states. Is that what you really want?"

OOC: This is the reasoning that myself and others have used whenever there is an attempt to repeal Resolutions that allow WA nations to possess nuclear weapons. The fact that, in principle, non-WA nations can have limitless nuclear arsenals, is reason enough for WA nations to possess them. Most authors of the repeals seem to conveniently forget that outlawing nuclear weapons in the WA will not magically rid the world of nuclear weapons, because WA rulings do not apply to non-WA nations.

OOC: i and others have actually threatened leaving the WA if a anti-nuclear proposal had a chance of passing

[Araraukar]

OOC: i and others have actually threatened leaving the WA if a anti-nuclear proposal had a chance of passing

OOC: I think I speak for everyone when I say that any threats about leaving the WA would be answered with "Goodbye, don't let the door hit you on the ass when it closes". Not because they (and in this case you) weren't wanted around here, but because switching WA status between accounts is so easy, and the threat of WA status loss is meaningless, unless you're the delegate of a large region (or the delegate of an active Gameplay region).