[PASSED] Ban on Ritual Sacrifice

[Naqil]

OOC: I wasn't thinking of Rirten in particular, but was rather using it as an example of a primitive superstition usually attributed to societies that are often called barbaric. IE the local volcano periodically erupts, so throwing various persons into said volcano is believed to appease the local god of the volcano to make it not erupt. Realistically it does nothing but kill the person sacrificed, but from that society's point of view such sacrifices are absolutely vital to the well being of the whole./OOC

((OOC: I know what you meant. I'd hoped my little would make that clear?))

"Furthermore, religions themselves are ideologies. If the WA by its own rules cannot outright ban communism, or fascism, or democracy (which is perhaps the worst ideology out there--it always degenerates into mob-ocracy) then it stands to reason that it cannot outright ban religions. But if certain specific practices of those religions can be banned, and those practices are considered to be so intrinsic to the overall practice of that religion, that would be a de facto ideological ban on that religion. It would matter little if it is the religion of the volcano god of XYZ-istan or Christianity (which is a major religion in many member nations) or any other religion."

"Then wouldn't basically every resolution be an ideological ban, assuming infinite nations on infinite worlds, with accordingly infinite religions? I can think of a few just off the top of my head that-" Ixhua flips a booklet to a cheat-sheet of resolutions. "-insist on the genocide of nonbelievers, in contradiction of... #38? Or which involve slavery, in contradiction of #23. And there's one I know of in Nitch which defines oceanic territorial borders different from those listed in #168."

[Imperial Polk County]

You did not get it, we am afraid.
Improving the infrastructure and to import resources are surely helpful short time measures. However, the resources are not unlimited, nowhere. If every nation would try to import food-do we need to elaborate further?
At some point, the population has to stop expanding. And a nation should surely seek less invasive methods to reduce population growth. We also specifically mentioned "last resort", which indicates that we would not use killings as a form of population control(killings for another reason are another topic) if there would be an alternative.

“This is the most ridiculous argument I’ve heard in a long time. People are starving in Ethiopia? Let’s bomb the hell out of them, that will fix the problem! Unbelievable. I am not changing that clause, ambassador, and that is final.”

[Dragonslinding WA Mission]

"Then wouldn't basically every resolution be an ideological ban, assuming infinite nations on infinite worlds, with accordingly infinite religions? I can think of a few just off the top of my head that-" Ixhua flips a booklet to a cheat-sheet of resolutions. "-insist on the genocide of nonbelievers, in contradiction of... #38? Or which involve slavery, in contradiction of #23. And there's one I know of in Nitch which defines oceanic territorial borders different from those listed in #168."

"His Majesty's government would love nothing better than to turn the WA General Assembly into a toothless debating society. But there is a distinction between religious groups that are committing genocide of non-believers/unbelievers--they are in effect consciously committing genocide. Granted one can then argue that sacrifice of sapient beings would amount to the same thing, but I highly doubt genocide of unbelievers would be classified as a rite, whereas a sacrifice would be.

"As to slavery, that is a condition of employment. One we Dragonslinding find both inefficient and repugnant, but mostly inefficient. It is much better to tie the peasantry to the land they inhabit. That way they can be both used to increase the general wealth of the country and the expense of their upkeep does not fall on the nobility or worse the crown."

[Naqil]

"And I think it would be hilarious if a few resolutions so poorly written as to become utterly hobbling were to pass, because that would give Naqil an advantage over you all," Ixhua explains, flipping through her little cheat-sheet booklet. "But I'm supposed to be diplomatic and arguing in good faith and not starting any wars today."

"Anyway, I would argue that if you spend a few generations rounding up all the unbelievers you can find and throwing their hearts down the temple steps, not that we did that to the Muisinel five hundred years ago- _{that was less "demanded by the gods" and more "revenge for conquering us"}- you will find that their numbers will dwindle down to nothing. I'd say that counts as genocide, wouldn't you?"

[Imperial Polk County]

"Genocide and slavery are not the topics of this proposal. Please take such debate elsewhere. Thank you."

[Northeast American Federation]

"It is frankly sickening that a proposal such as this is necessary. Do we really need a World Assembly Resolution to tell us that we ought not still be partaking in human sacrifice? I would have thought such barbarism was far behind us in the civilized world, but unfortunately it seems that is not the case. Recent attempts by certain parties to draft a proposal requiring ritual sacrifice in the name of the World Assembly disgust me and those I represent. We will stand behind this proposal should it come to a vote."

[Willania Imperium]

"It is frankly sickening that a proposal such as this is necessary. Do we really need a World Assembly Resolution to tell us that we ought not still be partaking in human sacrifice? I would have thought such barbarism was far behind us in the civilized world, but unfortunately it seems that is not the case. Recent attempts by certain parties to draft a proposal requiring ritual sacrifice in the name of the World Assembly disgust me and those I represent. We will stand behind this proposal should it come to a vote."

“Blame Clean Land for bringing this up. But yes, we’ll support it.”

[Dragonslinding WA Mission]

"And I think it would be hilarious if a few resolutions so poorly written as to become utterly hobbling were to pass, because that would give Naqil an advantage over you all," Ixhua explains, flipping through her little cheat-sheet booklet. "But I'm supposed to be diplomatic and arguing in good faith and not starting any wars today."

"Anyway, I would argue that if you spend a few generations rounding up all the unbelievers you can find and throwing their hearts down the temple steps, not that we did that to the Muisinel five hundred years ago- _{that was less "demanded by the gods" and more "revenge for conquering us"}- you will find that their numbers will dwindle down to nothing. I'd say that counts as genocide, wouldn't you?"

"No, provided that it was committed by use of the rite. That being said as others have mentioned we have strayed far off the topic of the proposal in question.

"Who is to say that member nations are in fact civilized? The penalty for theft of any item of greater than 12 pence in Dragonslund is death. Needless to say Foreigners find the bloody code to be somewhat barbaric. But if we didn't keep the ramparts of the Great Keep regularly decorated with fresh heads I fear the crows would starve to death. Someone has to think of the crows."

[Imperial Polk County]

"If there are no more suggestions, I may go ahead and submit this after my lunch break."

[Separatist Peoples]

"If there are no more suggestions, I may go ahead and submit this after my lunch break."

"Make it so, ambassador."

[Slavonia and Srijem]

What if person kill themself as sacrifice?

[Separatist Peoples]

What if person kill themself as sacrifice?

"It would be illegal. Enforcement is somewhat difficult, but it is no less illegal."

[Imperial Polk County]

What if person kill themself as sacrifice?

"It would be illegal. Enforcement is somewhat difficult, but it is no less illegal."

"But is that necessarily a flaw in this proposal? In thinking about it, I wouldn't want hundreds of people under the influence of a charismatic self-proclaimed prophet taking their own lives in a ritualistic mass suicide to be a legal act."

[Slavonia and Srijem]

What if person kill themself as sacrifice?

"It would be illegal. Enforcement is somewhat difficult, but it is no less illegal."

so whats the point of this resolution if let's say a religious nutjob can persuade alot of people to commit suicide as sacrifice.

[Imperial Polk County]

"It would be illegal. Enforcement is somewhat difficult, but it is no less illegal."

so whats the point of this resolution if let's say a religious nutjob can persuade alot of people to commit suicide as sacrifice.

"What's the point?" Drane looks from the ambassador to the draft and back to the ambassador. "To ban ritual sacrifice? Not all ritual sacrifice involves suicide, ambassador."

[Slavonia and Srijem]

so whats the point of this resolution if let's say a religious nutjob can persuade alot of people to commit suicide as sacrifice.

"What's the point?" Drane looks from the ambassador to the draft and back to the ambassador. "To ban ritual sacrifice? Not all ritual sacrifice involves suicide, ambassador."

No it doesn't, i agree, but it is a loophole from my viewpoint, exstremists will always find a way. From our standpoint i think this matter should be left alone to the member states as it is currently. Any further attempt of legalizing ritual sacrifices through WA resolutions should be strongly and harshly condemned.

[Separatist Peoples]

Bell rubs the bridge of his nose. "Ambassador Drane, do you ever feel like some representatives to this august assembly just don't understand their job?"

[Imperial Polk County]

"What's the point?" Drane looks from the ambassador to the draft and back to the ambassador. "To ban ritual sacrifice? Not all ritual sacrifice involves suicide, ambassador."

No it doesn't, i agree, but it is a loophole from my viewpoint, exstremists will always find a way. From our standpoint i think this matter should be left alone to the member states as it is currently. Any further attempt of legalizing ritual sacrifices through WA resolutions should be strongly and harshly condemned.

"Will all due respect, ambassador, this body cannot stand idle and watch innocent people murdered in the name of deities or dictators or other extremists. Nor can it stand idle while podunk snowbird delegations try to jam through legislation legalizing ritual sacrifices. Your objection has been noted, and I do thank you for your feedback."

Bell rubs the bridge of his nose. "Ambassador Drane, do you ever feel like some representatives to this august assembly just don't understand their job?"

"A subject best discussed in a more informal setting, Ambassador Bell. Speaking of which, as a small token of my gratitude for your very useful feedback on this proposal, I owe you a drink."

[Imperial Polk County]

This proposal has been submitted.

[Fauxia]

This proposal has been submitted.

“Good luck.”

[Dragonslinding WA Mission]

What if person kill themself as sacrifice?

"It would be illegal. Enforcement is somewhat difficult, but it is no less illegal."

"Indeed. Dragonslund has a similar law. Suicide is illegal, those convicted of attempting it are executed. Those that succeed....well there is always putting their head on a pike."

[States of Glory WA Office]

"It would be illegal. Enforcement is somewhat difficult, but it is no less illegal."

"Indeed. Dragonslund has a similar law. Suicide is illegal, those convicted of attempting it are executed. Those that succeed....well there is always putting their head on a pike."

Fairburn: I take it that your nation is aware of its obligations under GA #180 a.k.a. A Decriminalization of Suicide?

[Dragonslinding WA Mission]

"Indeed. Dragonslund has a similar law. Suicide is illegal, those convicted of attempting it are executed. Those that succeed....well there is always putting their head on a pike."

Fairburn: I take it that your nation is aware of its obligations under GA #180 a.k.a. A Decriminalization of Suicide?

"Oh in the 35 square meters of the WA mission suicide is most certainly legal. Otherwise it is not. But considering we have a population of 4 I doubt suicide would be an issue. Or at least that is what Maester Tarquin, Minister of Good Faith Compliance tells me."

[Imperium Anglorum]

Minister of Good Faith Compliance tells me."

Master of Laws?

[Dragonslinding WA Mission]

Minister of Good Faith Compliance tells me."

Master of Laws?

"Not quite. The Ministry of Good Faith Compliance is more interested in insuring that the vast majority of Dragonslinding law remains in force in the Mission while we remain in compliance with at least the letter of WA resolutions. While in Dragonslund, proper, the Master of Laws insures that the Kings justice is maintained, the dungeons and gaols are propertly administered and maintained and that sort of thing. The Mission doesn't have a gaol much less a dungeon unless one is counting the broom cupboard we've taken up residence in while at the WA Building a dungeon cell."