[DEFEATED] Agricultural Invasive Species Act

[Bears Armed]

OOC

Defines, for the purposes of this resolution, "invasive species" as species of non-sapient life that, upon introduction into or nearby the agricultural developments of a member state, significantly imperil the health or productivity of those agricultural developments,

Requires member states to employ any customs procedures or screenings necessary to prevent the introduction of invasive species,

Prohibits the trade of invasive species or goods contaminated with invasive species to areas where they pose a threat to agricultural developments,

Continues to prohibit the use of invasive species against agricultural developments as an economic or military weapon,

Mandates the speedy removal or destruction of invasive species within member states,

In the RL USA, Kudzu is an invasive species that can "significantly imperil the health or productivity" of agriculture by blanketing fields so thoroughly that no crops can be grown there. Let anybody try as hard as they like to mandate its "speedy removal or destruction", full compliance would be -- as attempts have shown -- impossible. I would be verry surprised if no comparable situations exist within NS...

[Wallenburg]

Look, your concern has been noted, and it's now on my list of things to address with the next edit. I'll see if I can get that in tonight.

And now it's tomorrow! Maybe this afternoon.

Cannabis is not an invasive species, and most certainly is not an invasive species as defined by this proposal when used to produce marijuana. Same goes for "snake grass" if it is grown as a product.

Uh, yeah it is. I just checked. The definition provided says any non-sapient life that when introduced to agriculture (meaning all since does not specifies) that hinders the crop or livestock raised. Marijuana is a weed. Don't believe me, (look at me name) I've talked to a college professor that spent his past decade studying weeds. He says Marijuana is a weed. Farmers say it's a weed. Dictionary says it's a weed. It's a freakin' weed. Agriculture is the one subject I know It grows in fields & farmers kill them because they hinder the crops. & the 5th part says all destruction of weeds. Yes, Marijuana has uses, which is why I posted before. By definition, this bill would require all Marijuana to be quickly killed. That's why I said to change it.

"Noxious weed" and "invasive species" are not the same thing.

[Clean Land]

This is a capitalist, globalist, progressivist view.

Sure it is mate; you heard it here first folks, Actual Communist who routinely opposes World Assembly 'free' trade legislation in and out of character, is in fact, a Capitalist Globalist! I'm opposed to the exploitative trade practices promoted and often enforced by 'free' trade legislation, not International Trade as a concept, that would be absurd.

As an aside, what in all the nine hells does 'progressivist' mean?

A country does not need anything but self-sustainable agriculture, a government and laws to hinder people from doing things that harm the society, and materials necessary to do so.

I mean, sure, if your police force is armed exclusively with sharpened sticks. But, uh, that isn't exactly what we're working with here.

In terms of international relations, there is limited need for some treaties about shared resources. More is not really necessary. You might want to have it, but it is not unreasonable to give it up.

I don't think you understand how economies work, Market or otherwise.

Well, our argument was simply that these things, like trade, are not necessary in itself for the existance of countries at all, and as such a proposal could reasonably force member nations to ban all trade.
We, however, do NOT want to give up trade. Even if it is not necessary, it is still good for our nation, at least when done sensibly.

[FarmerJohn]

"Noxious weed" and "invasive species" are not the same thing.

Ik, but by the wording, all noxious weeds are invasive species. Which is what I've been saying.

[Araraukar]

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution, "invasive species" as species of non-sapient life that, upon introduction into or nearby the agricultural developments of a member state, significantly imperil the health or productivity of those agricultural developments,

"Does "introduction" imply sapient action?" Johan asked. "Or does it just mean "spreads"? (OOC: Also, what the hell are "agricultural developments"? Seriously, I'm only finding funds and banks and other organizations with that as a search term, both in Wikipedia and Google.) Additionally, exactly what does "significantly imperil the health or productivity" mean? Does it mean a subsistence farmer losing their crops to locusts (OOC: which, btw, would count for "invasive species" despite being native in the areas where they destroy crops) or an entire nation's food production being in trouble?"

2. Requires member states to employ any customs procedures or screenings necessary to prevent the introduction of invasive species,

"Any? Considering the wide variety of invasive species - even going by the bizarre definition in this proposal - that would mean massive investments on biological threat investigations, essentially stopping international trade, as you would need to test every single square or cubic centimetre of every single thing brought in to make sure its surface hasn't got a single spore of a fungus that causes rice seedling blight or a single egg of a crop-destrying beetle. And that's just for nations that actually have that technology at hand. I would suggest the wording "any practical" instead."

3. Prohibits the trade of invasive species or goods contaminated with invasive species to areas where they pose a threat to agricultural developments,

"And exactly how would you know if a product you're selling contains seeds or eggs or spores so tiny you'll need a microscope to spot them? I suggest adding something about "intentionally selling contaminated goods", rather than forcing massive amounts of garden hobbyists being arrested for not knowing there was a single egg of a crop-destroying butterfly on the sapling they sold to someone."

5. Mandates the speedy removal or destruction of invasive species within member states,

"With the plural of "member states", do you mean that if a species is counted as an invasive species under the odd definition in this proposal, then that species should be eradicated in all the member nations? Even if that species is vital to the agriculture of another nation? Or is an endagered species"

6. Urges member states to research the possibility of various species becoming invasive, especially toward agricultural developments, and to communicate any knowledge of invasive species to other states and the World Assembly Science Program,

"So you want member nations to... do what exactly? Research every single species found inside their borders? Do you actually know how species become agricultural pests?"

7. Establishes the Agricultural Invasive Species Task Force, and charges it with assisting, upon member states' request, in the removal or destruction of invasive species.

OOC: So... some kind of WA police/military thing? Only armed with flamethrowers and pesticides?

[He-men]

OOC: So... some kind of WA police/military thing? Only armed with flamethrowers and pesticides?

OOC: given the language I think they'd better be equipped with magic wands.

[Araraukar]

OOC: So... some kind of WA police/military thing? Only armed with flamethrowers and pesticides?

OOC: given the language I think they'd better be equipped with magic wands.

OOC: I was thinking more on the lines that Fairburn (pesticides) and Janis (flamethrower) might want to sign up for the taskforce...

---

OOC: Since I forgot to put these in the previous post, putting them in this one...

OOC: As a Techwanking, Weird, Dystopian FT Nightmare, I can confirm this! Imperial Agriculture is very carefully managed in specifically chosen/created areas, there's about a 0% chance of an Invasive Species showing up, barring criminal levels of Incompetence, or someone intentionally introducing it.

OOC: Araraukar is MT, but probably weird and, depending who you ask, either a dystopia or utopia, but the same thing about carefully insanely strictly controlled agriculture is pretty much true, and while incompetence doesn't get you executed, it may make you wish you had been.

OOC: Phragmites will survive routine napalming. You have to sterilize the soil to get it.

OOC: Most regular earthworms would survive "routine napalming", since napalm burns on the surface, and earthworms tend to be found around 10 cm (4 inches) and deeper. (Based on a totally scientific study of half a lifetime spent helping first grandparents and then parents taking care of the various edible plants and decorative gardens...)

[Wallenburg]

1. Defines, for the purposes of this resolution, "invasive species" as species of non-sapient life that, upon introduction into or nearby the agricultural developments of a member state, significantly imperil the health or productivity of those agricultural developments,

"Does "introduction" imply sapient action?" Johan asked. "Or does it just mean "spreads"?

IC: "'Introduction' means introduction by any means, not just intentional, artificial ones. Not that it is all that relevant. An invasive species is just as harmful whether it crossed the border on its own or someone actively looked to infest foreign farms, and either way you interpret it the effects of this proposal would be identical.

(OOC: Also, what the hell are "agricultural developments"? Seriously, I'm only finding funds and banks and other organizations with that as a search term, both in Wikipedia and Google.)

OOC: I've been juggling with a proper word to use, since "agriculture" didn't seem to cut it. "Agricultural ecosystems" seems to work though, especially since that's mostly what this proposal is about: stabilizing agricultural ecosystems against species that would cause them to fall apart.

Additionally, exactly what does "significantly imperil the health or productivity" mean? Does it mean a subsistence farmer losing their crops to locusts (OOC: which, btw, would count for "invasive species" despite being native in the areas where they destroy crops) or an entire nation's food production being in trouble?"

IC: "Mr. Milkus, how do you think member states would define that phrase? Would your nation choose to broaden it even beyond benefit to the national interest?"

2. Requires member states to employ any customs procedures or screenings necessary to prevent the introduction of invasive species,

"Any? Considering the wide variety of invasive species - even going by the bizarre definition in this proposal - that would mean massive investments on biological threat investigations, essentially stopping international trade, as you would need to test every single square or cubic centimetre of every single thing brought in to make sure its surface hasn't got a single spore of a fungus that causes rice seedling blight or a single egg of a crop-destrying beetle. And that's just for nations that actually have that technology at hand. I would suggest the wording "any practical" instead."

"I'm very reluctant to lean on words like 'practical' or 'reasonable', considering how much leeway that gives member states to rip the teeth out of any resolution. I will, however, see what I can do."

3. Prohibits the trade of invasive species or goods contaminated with invasive species to areas where they pose a threat to agricultural developments,

"And exactly how would you know if a product you're selling contains seeds or eggs or spores so tiny you'll need a microscope to spot them? I suggest adding something about "intentionally selling contaminated goods", rather than forcing massive amounts of garden hobbyists being arrested for not knowing there was a single egg of a crop-destroying butterfly on the sapling they sold to someone."

"You'll be happy to know, then, that this is one of the issues addressed in the new version of the proposal."

5. Mandates the speedy removal or destruction of invasive species within member states,

"With the plural of "member states", do you mean that if a species is counted as an invasive species under the odd definition in this proposal, then that species should be eradicated in all the member nations? Even if that species is vital to the agriculture of another nation? Or is an endagered species"

"That is perhaps the most ridiculous and unreasonable interpretation of this proposal that I have thus seen. Under no circumstances would member states choose an interpretation of this proposal that would so greatly injure their ability to sustain themselves, especially when a more straightforward, reasonable, and beneficial interpretation exists."

6. Urges member states to research the possibility of various species becoming invasive, especially toward agricultural developments, and to communicate any knowledge of invasive species to other states and the World Assembly Science Program,

"So you want member nations to... do what exactly? Research every single species found inside their borders? Do you actually know how species become agricultural pests?"

"No, I am encouraging member states to collect information on foreign species that may become invasive, and domestic species that could reasonably become invasive abroad."

7. Establishes the Agricultural Invasive Species Task Force, and charges it with assisting, upon member states' request, in the removal or destruction of invasive species.

OOC: So... some kind of WA police/military thing? Only armed with flamethrowers and pesticides?

OOC: Yes, more or less. They are much like the US's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Army Corps.

[Araraukar]

OOC: So... some kind of WA police/military thing? Only armed with flamethrowers and pesticides?

OOC: Yes, more or less. They are much like the US's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Army Corps.

OOC: So... contradiction of GA #2.

[Wallenburg]

OOC: Yes, more or less. They are much like the US's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Army Corps.

OOC: So... contradiction of GA #2.

OOC: I was joking. There is no Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Army Corps.

[Araraukar]

OOC: So... contradiction of GA #2.

OOC: I was joking. There is no Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Army Corps.

OOC: I'm still calling for that contradiction, considering it has to be an armed task-force that, due to it being established like a committee, is a WA task force.

Also, how was I supposed to know? After all, in your RL nation, the job of a "Planetary Defender" is a real thing with a perfectly mundane meaning... Or was it Interplanetary Defender? Same pomposity of a job title anyway.

[Wallenburg]

OOC:

OOC: I was joking. There is no Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service Army Corps.

OOC: I'm still calling for that contradiction, considering it has to be an armed task-force that, due to it being established like a committee, is a WA task force.

I should add a clause mandating that these gnomes eradicate invasive species using heavy artillery and flamethrowers.

Also, how was I supposed to know? After all, in your RL nation, the job of a "Planetary Defender" is a real thing with a perfectly mundane meaning... Or was it Interplanetary Defender? Same pomposity of a job title anyway.

Whaa...?

[Aclion]

I should add a clause mandating that these gnomes eradicate invasive species using heavy artillery and flamethrowers.

Also, how was I supposed to know? After all, in your RL nation, the job of a "Planetary Defender" is a real thing with a perfectly mundane meaning... Or was it Interplanetary Defender? Same pomposity of a job title anyway.

Whaa...?

NASA has a position called 'planetary protection officer'. Their job is to

make sure we don't accidentally introduce life to other planets when we land probes on them

[Wallenburg]

I should add a clause mandating that these gnomes eradicate invasive species using heavy artillery and flamethrowers.

Whaa...?

NASA has a position called 'planetary protection officer'. Their job is to

make sure we don't accidentally introduce life to other planets when we land probes on them

OOC: Ah, now I remember. "Planetary Protection Officer" is, indeed a very odd term to use. Perhaps I could call this proposal's committee something other than a "task force"?

[Maltropia]

In the RL USA, Kudzu is an invasive species that can "significantly imperil the health or productivity" of agriculture by blanketing fields so thoroughly that no crops can be grown there. Let anybody try as hard as they like to mandate its "speedy removal or destruction", full compliance would be -- as attempts have shown -- impossible. I would be verry surprised if no comparable situations exist within NS...

Just a real-world addendum to the above, species like Japanese knotweed are extremely persistent and hard to remove; if not properly cut and removed, knotweed bits of just about any size can remain to regrow as a full plant; if stray scraps fall off the back of the truck while it drives away, even worse. "Speedy" removal might encourage amateurs to make an attempt which ultimately makes things worse. It's nice to want things done expeditiously but sometimes that's much less effective.

[The Bible Baptist Republic]

In the RL USA, Kudzu is an invasive species that can "significantly imperil the health or productivity" of agriculture by blanketing fields so thoroughly that no crops can be grown there. Let anybody try as hard as they like to mandate its "speedy removal or destruction", full compliance would be -- as attempts have shown -- impossible. I would be verry surprised if no comparable situations exist within NS...

OOC: In this area we have Purple Loosestrife which chokes out our tidal marshes. Solution: introduce another invasive species, the black-margined loosestrife beetle. Once it runs out of purple loosestrife to devour goes after the native Winged Loosestrife... Swallow the spider to swallow the fly....

[Wallenburg]

New draft is up, peruse at your leisure. I have made several modifications to address previously expressed concerns, within 3 standard deviations.

[Uan aa Boa]

OOC, I notice that the measures in this proposal are all intended to boost the agricultural industry. As a proposal in the environmental category affecting agriculture, however, it would if passed harm the agriculture industry to the benefit of the environment.

I think a good environmental proposal could be written that sought to prevent the spread of invasive species to protect all eco-systems rather than just agricultural ones. Using Trade of Endangered Organisms as a precedent, if this were to be done using customs checks that made trade more difficult its area of effect would probably be all industries.

[States of Glory WA Office]

New draft is up, peruse at your leisure. I have made several modifications to address previously expressed concerns, within 3 standard deviations.

Fairburn: Objection! It should clearly be within the interquartile range!

Neville: Wait a minute...

Requires member states to employ customs procedures or screenings in accordance with previous World Assembly legislation and otherwise of their choice on all goods entering or exiting national jurisdiction, to the extent that tests for invasive species on sampled goods guarantee a power of 99.7%,

Clever.

[Stoskavanya]

Why is this international legislation at all.

One can assume that any sensible individual nation would already have an interest in protecting their own agriculture, and that they would have already taken steps deemed necessary to combat invasive species by themselves. Intentional introduction of invasive species is already banned by resolution, so what is this actually doing other than adding unrealistic and unnecessary regulation?

[Wallenburg]

Why is this international legislation at all.

One can assume that any sensible individual nation would already have an interest in protecting their own agriculture, and that they would have already taken steps deemed necessary to combat invasive species by themselves. Intentional introduction of invasive species is already banned by resolution, so what is this actually doing other than adding unrealistic and unnecessary regulation?

That is very strange, considering similar legislation has passed under the same category and AoE. I'll see what I can do. Social Justice might be the closest category, and even so this may require significant redrafting to fit within a category.

[Stoskavanya]

376 GA 'Pesticide Regulations', which I assume is what you talking about, covers an area where there is a significant personal economic benefit to carelessly apply pesticides without regard to the environment. There needed to be legislation to correct this wrong which would continue to exist without it.

There is no personal economic benefit to letting your countries' crops get destroyed, so you don't have to mandate that nations try to stop that from happening.

Also, this resolution ignores many alternatives which make more sense than mass removal. Maybe the cost to remove a species is too great than the harm it does to agriculture. Maybe there are cheaper ways to control an invasive species, rather than remove it.

I have other minor qualms, such as questioning the realism of a 99.7% detection rate without incinerating a persons luggage, the exist of a committee already dedicated to researching invasive species, etc. But my main two concerns are the one above.

[Aclion]

Why is this international legislation at all.

One can assume that any sensible individual nation would already have an interest in protecting their own agriculture, and that they would have already taken steps deemed necessary to combat invasive species by themselves. Intentional introduction of invasive species is already banned by resolution, so what is this actually doing other than adding unrealistic and unnecessary regulation?

That is very strange, considering similar legislation has passed under the same category and AoE. I'll see what I can do. Social Justice might be the closest category, and even so this may require significant redrafting to fit within a category.

The changes would have to be significant indeed to fit under social justice.

[Wallenburg]

I think I'm going to go with Advancement of Industry instead. It clearly protects the agricultural industry, and although it does not really do much to directly affect the environment, you could interpret the extreme prejudice against invasive species to have the potential of indirectly harming the environment.

[Kenmoria]

"For clause 1, the word 'imperil' requires an 's' to become 'imperils'. This would allow for better tense and aspect agreement."