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[DRAFT] Preventing State-Sponsored Denialism

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:15 pm

So, how to we qualify an evil which is significant enough to be mandated in curriculum?
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13711
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:33 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:So, how to we qualify an evil which is significant enough to be mandated in curriculum?

"47 Vader-Stalin units. Anything less is just acceptable casualties."
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

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Essu Beti
Diplomat
 
Posts: 754
Founded: Apr 24, 2017
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Essu Beti » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:35 pm

"There are a lot of nations in the World Assembly," says Iksana. "Maybe we could limit the requirements to those which relate to nations that the nation in question has had relations with. With a focus on those which still have an impact today. The Tal got shit on a lot throughout history and are still second-class citizens in a lot of countries in the world my nation is in, so it would make sense to learn about at least a few of the massacres they've been subject to. But we really don't need to know that a thousand years ago in North Tenahuari, Village A wiped out Village B all the way down to the livestock, only for most of the region to die of plague a few decades later."
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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13711
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:20 pm

Essu Beti wrote:"There are a lot of nations in the World Assembly," says Iksana. "Maybe we could limit the requirements to those which relate to nations that the nation in question has had relations with. With a focus on those which still have an impact today. The Tal got shit on a lot throughout history and are still second-class citizens in a lot of countries in the world my nation is in, so it would make sense to learn about at least a few of the massacres they've been subject to. But we really don't need to know that a thousand years ago in North Tenahuari, Village A wiped out Village B all the way down to the livestock, only for most of the region to die of plague a few decades later."

"Or, alternatively, we can allow nations to teach history in a way that is appropriate for their curriculum and not dictate the teaching of meaningless historical trivia to individuals who have no need for it? If a student wishes to pursue this kind of information, they'll self-educate or take the necessary history courses to learn about it. This would be better reorganized into a policy to avoid suppression of historical atrocities, rather than a promotion of their promulgation. That would be far less invasive."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:12 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Essu Beti wrote:"There are a lot of nations in the World Assembly," says Iksana. "Maybe we could limit the requirements to those which relate to nations that the nation in question has had relations with. With a focus on those which still have an impact today. The Tal got shit on a lot throughout history and are still second-class citizens in a lot of countries in the world my nation is in, so it would make sense to learn about at least a few of the massacres they've been subject to. But we really don't need to know that a thousand years ago in North Tenahuari, Village A wiped out Village B all the way down to the livestock, only for most of the region to die of plague a few decades later."

"Or, alternatively, we can allow nations to teach history in a way that is appropriate for their curriculum and not dictate the teaching of meaningless historical trivia to individuals who have no need for it? If a student wishes to pursue this kind of information, they'll self-educate or take the necessary history courses to learn about it. This would be better reorganized into a policy to avoid suppression of historical atrocities, rather than a promotion of their promulgation. That would be far less invasive."

Interesting. Yeah, we'd stop things like the Chinese gov't's surpression of the Tiananmen Square Massacre
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 3940
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Fauxia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:54 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Essu Beti wrote:"There are a lot of nations in the World Assembly," says Iksana. "Maybe we could limit the requirements to those which relate to nations that the nation in question has had relations with. With a focus on those which still have an impact today. The Tal got shit on a lot throughout history and are still second-class citizens in a lot of countries in the world my nation is in, so it would make sense to learn about at least a few of the massacres they've been subject to. But we really don't need to know that a thousand years ago in North Tenahuari, Village A wiped out Village B all the way down to the livestock, only for most of the region to die of plague a few decades later."

"Or, alternatively, we can allow nations to teach history in a way that is appropriate for their curriculum and not dictate the teaching of meaningless historical trivia to individuals who have no need for it? If a student wishes to pursue this kind of information, they'll self-educate or take the necessary history courses to learn about it. This would be better reorganized into a policy to avoid suppression of historical atrocities, rather than a promotion of their promulgation. That would be far less invasive."
"Whoa! What a brave new idea!"
United Massachusetts wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"Or, alternatively, we can allow nations to teach history in a way that is appropriate for their curriculum and not dictate the teaching of meaningless historical trivia to individuals who have no need for it? If a student wishes to pursue this kind of information, they'll self-educate or take the necessary history courses to learn about it. This would be better reorganized into a policy to avoid suppression of historical atrocities, rather than a promotion of their promulgation. That would be far less invasive."

Interesting. Yeah, we'd stop things like the Chinese gov't's surpression of the Tienanmen Square Massacre
"The what?"
Last edited by Fauxia on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t pick a fight with me, I am proficient with the weapon to which all shall fall in NationStates... inactivity.
Not the similarly named Feux.
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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:58 pm

I've decided to abandon this draft
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Sciongrad
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2971
Founded: Mar 11, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sciongrad » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:59 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:I've decided to abandon this draft

"That is a shame. Sciongrad was willing to offer support and potentially assistance in drafting."
Natalia Santos, Plenipotentiary and Permanent Scionite Representative to the World Assembly


Ideological Bulwark #271


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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:00 pm

Sciongrad wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:I've decided to abandon this draft

"That is a shame. Sciongrad was willing to offer support and potentially assistance in drafting."

Hmm...I'll reopen it then :P I figured there was, like, no support
Last edited by United Massachusetts on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13711
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:18 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:"That is a shame. Sciongrad was willing to offer support and potentially assistance in drafting."

Hmm...I'll reopen it then :P I figured there was, like, no support

"And we were willing to engage in a bidding war to buy away the Sciongrad delegation's support with ever increasing bribes, thus causing unending delays in drafting."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:21 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Hmm...I'll reopen it then :P I figured there was, like, no support

"And we were willing to engage in a bidding war to buy away the Sciongrad delegation's support with ever increasing bribes, thus causing unending delays in drafting."

Do you really think a version of this, even heavily modified, would get nowhere?
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


User avatar
Tinfect
Senator
 
Posts: 4499
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Tinfect » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:22 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:"That is a shame. Sciongrad was willing to offer support and potentially assistance in drafting."

Hmm...I'll reopen it then I figured there was, like, no support


OOC:
Ripping a proposal apart mercilessly doesn't necessarily mean that someone doesn't support it.
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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:30 pm

OK---I'll (at some point) go through your reccommendations
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13711
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:33 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"And we were willing to engage in a bidding war to buy away the Sciongrad delegation's support with ever increasing bribes, thus causing unending delays in drafting."

Do you really think a version of this, even heavily modified, would get nowhere?

"No, the C.D.S.P. is merely made up of an obstructionist brand of people," Bell winks good-naturedly.
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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Milwalkiee
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 110
Founded: May 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Milwalkiee » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:36 pm

"We collectively agree with the concept of this proposal, although it appears that there are a few flaws. We did not notice that there is a mandatory time set aside for covering the subjects. The schools could just pass over it to get it out of the way, not taking it seriously. Secondly, we did not notice the resolution has specifically addressed what country/countries history must be covered, meaning they may cover a less gruesome or volatile nation's history for whatever motives the school had. Hereby, we must stand against until the loopholes are fixed."
"Peace. Diplomacy. Leadership."

Cheers!
Milwalkiee

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Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 3940
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Fauxia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:37 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Do you really think a version of this, even heavily modified, would get nowhere?

"No, the C.D.S.P. is merely made up of an obstructionist brand of people," Bell winks good-naturedly.
"Good-naturedly"
Don’t pick a fight with me, I am proficient with the weapon to which all shall fall in NationStates... inactivity.
Not the similarly named Feux.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.

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Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 13711
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:39 pm

Fauxia wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"No, the C.D.S.P. is merely made up of an obstructionist brand of people," Bell winks good-naturedly.
"Good-naturedly"

Bell chucks an empty scotch bottle at the Fauxian ambassador.

"At any rate, we would be more amenable to efforts to prevent suppression rather than curriculum-mandating."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:43 pm

"In light of the comment from the Delegation from Separatist Peoples, I have added a clause which protects teachers from being fired for teaching about a genocide
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


User avatar
Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 3940
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Fauxia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:44 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Fauxia wrote:"Good-naturedly"

Bell chucks an empty scotch bottle at the Fauxian ambassador.

"At any rate, we would be more amenable to efforts to prevent suppression rather than curriculum-mandating."
The Fauxian ambassador (OoC: should name soon in sig) attempts to dodge the bottle, but it hits his hand in the process. He goes to the medical wing, before his intern says "What is the difference between mandating and suppression prevention in this case?" He chucks a pie at Bell.

OoC: Yay 1000 posts!
Last edited by Fauxia on Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Don’t pick a fight with me, I am proficient with the weapon to which all shall fall in NationStates... inactivity.
Not the similarly named Feux.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.

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States of Glory WA Office
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1921
Founded: Jul 26, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby States of Glory WA Office » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:45 pm

Fairburn: Hm. This proposal may be salvageable, but it requires...

Harold runs into the chamber.

Harold: Guys! One of my cream pies is missing! Does anyone know-

Fauxia wrote:He chucks a pie at Bell.

Harold: Oh.
Ambassador: Bartholomew Harper Fairburn Rowan Flowerhaze Souldream Bartholomew Harper Fairburn
Assistant: Neville Lynn Robert
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United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2147
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:52 pm

Ahem...I present the updated version--Prevention of Denialism, which effectively prevents the state from misconstruing the reality of atrocities, genocides, or war crimes. I'll update the preamble later per the new topic, but are the clauses themselves tolerable for those here?
United Massachusetts
World Assembly Mission

Pro-Life Social Democratic Catholic
Ambassador: Bishop Alexander Pierce

WA Affairs Minister, The East Pacific
Assistant: Father Carl Sullivan

Fmr. President, Right to Life
Queen Yuno wrote:You have a very contradictory rep yourself, [UM].
Sanctaria wrote:We get it. You're pro-life.
Davelands wrote:(UM tries to slip another one by)
Wallenburg wrote:You've got to be the most ignorant person on this Discord.
Davelands wrote:Remember that United Mass is extremely on the religious right side. Look for hidden gotcha's for later. He is playing a long game with proposals...
"Stat crux dum volvitur orbis"
"The Cross is steady while the world is turning"


User avatar
Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 3940
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Fauxia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:02 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:Ahem...I present the updated version--Prevention of Denialism, which effectively prevents the state from misconstruing the reality of atrocities, genocides, or war crimes. I'll update the preamble later per the new topic, but are the clauses themselves tolerable for those here?
"'Misconstruing'"
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Fairburn: Hm. This proposal may be salvageable, but it requires...

Harold runs into the chamber.

Harold: Guys! One of my cream pies is missing! Does anyone know-

Fauxia wrote:He chucks a pie at Bell.

Harold: Oh.
"I put it to good use."
Last edited by Fauxia on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t pick a fight with me, I am proficient with the weapon to which all shall fall in NationStates... inactivity.
Not the similarly named Feux.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.

User avatar
Deropia
Envoy
 
Posts: 235
Founded: Apr 08, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Deropia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:12 pm

Jason can't help but laugh as the scotch bottle, followed soon after by the pie, fly through the air of the chamber. "Ah, this place may be a mad-house...but its the best damn posting I've ever had..." He chuckles again as he reads over the revised draft.

"This looks agreeable...I have to say, I like the change from mandating changes to our current curriculum. I believe that preventing governments from skewing the facts surrounding genocide and the other atrocities mentioned, or worse yet glorifying them, is a noble endeavor. I look forward to seeing the full draft."
Last edited by Deropia on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lieutenant-Commander Jason MacAlister
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macalister.j@diplomats.com
Office 1302, 13th Floor, World Assembly Headquarters
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Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 3940
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Fauxia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:13 pm

Deropia wrote:Jason can't help but laugh as the scotch bottle and pie fly through the air of the chamber. "Ah, this place may be a mad-house...but its the best damn posting I've ever had..." He chuckles again as he reads over the revised draft.

"This looks agreeable...I have to say, I like the change from mandating changes to our current curriculum. I believe that preventing governments from skewing the facts surrounding genocide and the other atrocities mentioned, or worse yet glorifying them, is a noble endeavor. I look forward to seeing the full draft."
The pie and scotch bottle were not thrown at the same time
Don’t pick a fight with me, I am proficient with the weapon to which all shall fall in NationStates... inactivity.
Not the similarly named Feux.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.

User avatar
Aclion
Minister
 
Posts: 3030
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Aclion » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:30 pm

Forbids the deliberate spread of the denial or "revisionism" of a genocide, war crime, or atrocity on behalf of a World Assembly member nation, by any means

This makes it sound as though you're trying to shut down Joe Skinheads holocaust denial blog rather then prevent nations from engaging in denial. Is that intended?
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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