[Draft] Repeal 'Permit Male Circumcision'

[The Unfounded]

Repeal "Permit Male Circumcision"
Category: Repeal | Resolution: GAR #141

DESCRIPTION: GAR #141, "Permit Male Circumcision" (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Mild) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

ARGUMENT: The World Assembly,

CONCERNED at the discontinuity of precluding entirely the practice of female genital mutilation on the basis that religious tradition does not give families the right to disfigure the bodies of their female offspring without the express consent of that offspring, while forcing nations to allow a procedure of similar scope to be carried out on males;

DECLARING that non-consensual genital mutilation is wrong regardless of sex;

CHALLENGING the position that male circumcision has tangible medical benefits that cannot already be answered by practicing good hygiene;

CLARIFYING that this measure does not inherently ban the activity, but seeks only to end the explicit endorsement of a practice similar in nature to female circumcision while actively banning that practice;

Repeals GAR #141, "Permit Male Circumcision".

OOC: Credit to Auralia for the header formatting... hope ya don't mind. Also looked on the passed resolutions thread for some ideas about formatting. I hope this ain't too terrible... but if one must go, go all out!

[Araraukar]

OOC: Good luck. Not that you'll be able to pass this, but I wish you luck.

[Wallenburg]

Likewise, full support and good luck. I would, however, reword the first and second clauses:

CONCERNED at the discontinuity present in having a law that of precludesing entirely the practice of Ffemale Ggenital Mmutilation on the basis that religious tradition does not give a familyies the right to disfigure the body/bodies of their female offspring without the express consent of that offspring, while forcing nations to allow a procedure of similar scope to be carried out on males;

DECLARING that non-consensual genital mutilation is wrong no matter what sex is concernedregardless of sex;

Also, you should either remove "The World Assembly" at the beginning or "The General Assembly" near the end. One alone will do the job just fine.

Edits because BBCode is a pain on mobile.

[The Unfounded]

Alterations made.

On another note, I saw that region founders can send out unlimited TGs or some such in terms of campaigns and whatnot (but for the life of me I cannot recall where). If I had Godular send out the message, would that earn me snarls and growls from officialdom, or count as 'clever use of game mechanics'? Or can Godular not send out WA campaign messages?

[Wallenburg]

Alterations made.

On another note, I saw that region founders can send out unlimited TGs or some such in terms of campaigns and whatnot (but for the life of me I cannot recall where). If I had Godular send out the message, would that earn me snarls and growls from officialdom, or count as 'clever use of game mechanics'? Or can Godular not send out WA campaign messages?

You can ask for an API key from your regional leaders, or ask someone who has a key to run a campaign for you. Plenty of people have done so.

Edit: Oh, you're Godular's puppet. Of course you can send campaign TGs from your main.

[United Massachusetts]

Strongly opposed.

[Bears Armed]

OOC
That's unlimited TGs within the Founder's region: For targets anywhere else, I'm fairly sure you're under the same limits as the rest of us.
Also, don't forget that WA campaign TGs must be marked as campaign TGs.

[The Unfounded]

OOC
That's unlimited TGs within the Founder's region: For targets anywhere else, I'm fairly sure you're under the same limits as the rest of us.
Also, don't forget that WA campaign TGs must be marked as campaign TGs.

Aye, I know about the marking bit.


If its only unlimited within my region then I guess the query would be moot. No point campaigning in a region that only has a small collection of puppets in it.

[Furbystan]

The Delegation of Furbystan offers its full support for this legislation. Mutilation of child's body can never be approved in any way, especially since FGM is already banned. What's for equal rights, then? Is WA a misandristic institution?

[Herby]

The Delegation of Furbystan offers its full support for this legislation. Mutilation of child's body can never be approved in any way, especially since FGM is already banned. What's for equal rights, then? Is WA a misandristic institution?

Dawwwwww c'mon with this silly argument already! You can't compare snipping the tip of a dipstick with haphazardly hacking the holiest of holies!

[Wallenburg]

OOC
That's unlimited TGs within the Founder's region: For targets anywhere else, I'm fairly sure you're under the same limits as the rest of us.
Also, don't forget that WA campaign TGs must be marked as campaign TGs.

OOC: What's the limit then? I've sent God knows how many campaign TGs by now and haven't hit this limit.

[Bears Armed]

OOC
That's unlimited TGs within the Founder's region: For targets anywhere else, I'm fairly sure you're under the same limits as the rest of us.
Also, don't forget that WA campaign TGs must be marked as campaign TGs.

OOC: What's the limit then? I've sent God knows how many campaign TGs by now and haven't hit this limit.

Oops! Actually, the difference is in number of targets: A founder can send the same message simultaneously to everybody in their region, whereas for [potential] recipients outside it they are limited -- like the rest of us -- to 8 targets/copy if campaigning manually.

[Wallenburg]

OOC: What's the limit then? I've sent God knows how many campaign TGs by now and haven't hit this limit.

Oops! Actually, the difference is in number of targets: A founder can send the same message simultaneously to everybody in their region, whereas for [potential] recipients outside it they are limited -- like the rest of us -- to 8 targets/copy if campaigning manually.

Ah, that makes more sense. Yes, you are limited to 8 recipients per telegram in a manual campaign. Which is why I suggest an API campaign or, if Godular feels like spending a bit of money, a stamp campaign.

For further details, here's an excerpt from my own guide to proposal writing:

You need to get 6% of all World Assembly delegates to approve your proposal before it can even get a chance to be voted upon. 6% may seem small, but with over a thousand delegates scattered across NationStates--and many of them unwilling to spend time approving proposals, reaching quorum can be very difficult. In fact, just sitting back and waiting for approvals to come in is bound to result in your proposal's defeat. It only has four (4) days to get 6% approval, and delegates simply do not frequent the proposal queue enough to give you a chance at passively reaching that goal.

To get enough approvals, you'll need to run a campaign. A campaign is a large body of telegrams sent to WA delegates, asking for them to approve a proposal. Given the sheer number of delegates to be contacted, simply asking each delegate one-by-one is not a very realistic option. In order to speed up the campaign process, players may choose one of three options:

• Buy telegram stamps and set the recipient of their telegram to "tag:delegates", which will spend one telegram stamp for every WA delegate, and send the telegram immediately to every single one.
• Run a manual campaign, sending individual group telegrams to up to eight delegates at a time, until all delegates have been contacted.
• Use the telegram API, and run a script that automatically sends the same telegram to every delegate, one by one. This can be rather tricky. While you do not have to buy stamps for this, you must have access to an API client key. A regional founder may request a client key from the moderators, but other WA nations must request the client key from their regional founder to be able to use the API as well. Once you have secured a client key, you can set up an API template for your telegram by writing your campaign message into a new telegram and addressing it to "tag:api". This will give you a template for your script to copy, as well as a secret key necessary to run the script. There are several scripts available to automate telegram campaigns, including Imperium Anglorum's Communiqué, a small and easy to use Java program.

[The Arctic Ocean]

The Delegation of Furbystan offers its full support for this legislation. Mutilation of child's body can never be approved in any way, especially since FGM is already banned. What's for equal rights, then? Is WA a misandristic institution?

Dawwwwww c'mon with this silly argument already! You can't compare snipping the tip of a dipstick with haphazardly hacking the holiest of holies!

WA Representative Grrrarroaar of the Arctic Ocean agrees with the honorable representative from Herby. Seems to me like the only opposition to male circumcision comes from males who have other sexual issues, and have decided to blame circumcision for whatever disadvantage they might have.

[The Unfounded]

Dawwwwww c'mon with this silly argument already! You can't compare snipping the tip of a dipstick with haphazardly hacking the holiest of holies!

WA Representative Grrrarroaar of the Arctic Ocean agrees with the honorable representative from Herby. Seems to me like the only opposition to male circumcision comes from males who have other sexual issues, and have decided to blame circumcision for whatever disadvantage they might have.

Alexis raises an eyebrow at this comment. "Are you bloody kidding?"

[The Arctic Ocean]

WA Representative Grrrarroaar of the Arctic Ocean agrees with the honorable representative from Herby. Seems to me like the only opposition to male circumcision comes from males who have other sexual issues, and have decided to blame circumcision for whatever disadvantage they might have.

Alexis raises an eyebrow at this comment. "Are you bloody kidding?"

Grrrarroaar bites the head off of a salmon, and continues. "Not even a little!" He says, shaking his paw.

[Excidium Planetis]

"As before, Excidium Planetis will never support a measure which allows nations to completely ban a consensual medical practice." Blackbourne states. "Additionally, we cannot agree with the Challenging clause, which contradicts medical research with no support for its own challenge. Opposed."

[The Unfounded]

"As before, Excidium Planetis will never support a measure which allows nations to completely ban a consensual medical practice." Blackbourne states. "Additionally, we cannot agree with the Challenging clause, which contradicts medical research with no support for its own challenge. Opposed."

"Your pardon, but if the recipient can actually consent to the procedure, then it is something we have no issues with. A two month old baby cannot consent however, and it is wrong to have such a thing done to anyone because of religious tradition mandates it in some way. And there are any number of non-circumcised men about who suffer interminable repercussions of not having had their foreskin stripped away. Were there actual medical benefits we'd see more people getting them when they CAN consent."

turning back to the polar bear: "And you, bear. It would be of some use for you to make such generalistic comments about people you do not know regarding a subject that carries the level of cognitive dissonance as present even in those objecting to the proposed repeal. Even the demon car's argument about tip-snipping is silly when held at face value."

[Herby]

Even the demon car's argument about tip-snipping is silly when held at face value.

Vrrrrrrrm. I don't normally say this bub, but ehhh I insist you refer to me as Amassador Number 53. And not "demon car". Thank you. Now ehhhh movin' on, what's so silly about comparing and contrasting a perfectly legal and ethical procedure which has shown medicinal benefits in males to an outlawed and unethical procedure which serves no purpose but to make females subservient to supposedly religious men? Translation, that "concerned" clause o' yours is a bullshit argument. It is not a procedure in similar scope at all.

[Excidium Planetis]

"Your pardon, but if the recipient can actually consent to the procedure, then it is something we have no issues with.

"And yet your repeal will open the door for a ban."

A two month old baby cannot consent however, and it is wrong to have such a thing done to anyone because of religious tradition mandates it in some way.

"No one has said anything about religious tradition. It is not a matter of archaic Jewish practices, but medical concern, that motivates Excidium Planetis to perform surgeries on infants."

And there are any number of non-circumcised men about who suffer interminable repercussions of not having had their foreskin stripped away. Were there actual medical benefits we'd see more people getting them when they CAN consent."

"There are also millions of infants who have suffered urniary tract infections, and thousands of deaths due to such, because they did not have their foreskin removed. Adult males do not consent to circumcision because the medical benefits are highest in infancy, not adulthood."

[Greater Kascadia]

Strongly Support

[Greater Kascadia]

"Your pardon, but if the recipient can actually consent to the procedure, then it is something we have no issues with.

"And yet your repeal will open the door for a ban."

A two month old baby cannot consent however, and it is wrong to have such a thing done to anyone because of religious tradition mandates it in some way.

"No one has said anything about religious tradition. It is not a matter of archaic Jewish practices, but medical concern, that motivates Excidium Planetis to perform surgeries on infants."

And there are any number of non-circumcised men about who suffer interminable repercussions of not having had their foreskin stripped away. Were there actual medical benefits we'd see more people getting them when they CAN consent."

"There are also millions of infants who have suffered urniary tract infections, and thousands of deaths due to such, because they did not have their foreskin removed. Adult males do not consent to circumcision because the medical benefits are highest in infancy, not adulthood."

By properly educating children to bathe and wash, you can reduce any medical issues that may arise. Mutilating a babies genitals has no medical benefit, and it comes across as lazy to pass it off on "medical benefits" rather than just washing.

[The Unfounded]

Even the demon car's argument about tip-snipping is silly when held at face value.

Vrrrrrrrm. I don't normally say this bub, but ehhh I insist you refer to me as Amassador Number 53. And not "demon car". Thank you. Now ehhhh movin' on, what's so silly about comparing and contrasting a perfectly legal and ethical procedure which has shown medicinal benefits in males to an outlawed and unethical procedure which serves no purpose but to make females subservient to supposedly religious men? Translation, that "concerned" clause o' yours is a bullshit argument. It is not a procedure in similar scope at all.

"I would very much like to hear these 'medicinal benefits' you lot speak of, as what I have seen strikes as little more than urban legends that have been debunked as actual scientific studies continue to produce evidence, or wholly unrelated phenomena that are attributed to the process through simple confirmation bias.

"You are so stuck on the idea that a little cut here is completely acceptable while another cut is a horrible human rights violation. The arguments that you put forward here to defend your little snip are the exact same as the arguments put forward in defense of female circumcision. I find ANY elective procedure inflicted upon another, no matter how minor, to be a grievous violation of human rights. It can damn well wait until the child can make the decision themselves."

[The Unfounded]

"And yet your repeal will open the door for a ban."


"No one has said anything about religious tradition. It is not a matter of archaic Jewish practices, but medical concern, that motivates Excidium Planetis to perform surgeries on infants."


"There are also millions of infants who have suffered urniary tract infections, and thousands of deaths due to such, because they did not have their foreskin removed. Adult males do not consent to circumcision because the medical benefits are highest in infancy, not adulthood."

By properly educating children to bathe and wash, you can reduce any medical issues that may arise. Mutilating a babies genitals has no medical benefit, and it comes across as lazy to pass it off on "medical benefits" rather than just washing.

"I vehemently agree."

[Excidium Planetis]

By properly educating children to bathe and wash, you can reduce any medical issues that may arise. Mutilating a babies genitals has no medical benefit, and it comes across as lazy to pass it off on "medical benefits" rather than just washing.

"Ah, I was not aware one could teach a three week old human child to properly bathe and wash. My mistake." Blackbourne replies. "I'll bring this before our medical professionals and I am sure our stance will change. Rather lazy to resort to a simple medical procedure to save lives at a crucial point in infant life when teaching those infants to wash is just as effective in preventing the majority of childhood male urinary tract infections."

"I vehemently agree."

"I see you too have had success teaching children zero to three weeks old, to help them during the time when they are most likely to develop urinary tract infections."