Reproductive Freedoms Replacement (draft).

[Keshiland]

Rights of the Unborn

Category: Human Rights

Strength: Significant

Proposed by: Keshiland

BELIEVING that life starts at conception

ACKNOWLEDGING that this is very controversial and personal for many people

YEARNING to give the unborn the right to life

THE WORLD ASSEMBLY

MANDATES that all pregnancies not resulting from rape or endangering the life of the mother must be completed and the life birthed

REQUIRES that violators face no less than the time that it would take in years to raise their offspring in prison or parole.

EXCEPTION extreme fetal abnormally

DEFINES extreme fetal abnormally as inability to live outside the womb at full term

EFFECTIVE once passed.

[Lexicor]

no.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Assuming this follows a repeal of GAR#286, this violates GAR#128 and would be illegal.

[Auralia]

I salute your optimism, but such a pro-life bill has very little chance of passage by the current World Assembly electorate. I'd encourage you to take a more moderate approach, such as reserving the power to regulate abortion to member states.

((OOC: As SP points out, the World Assembly actually has two resolutions that legalize abortion -- both must be repealed before you can pass this kind of replacement.))

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

[The United Artherian Federation]

I'm not in the WA, but no.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I salute your optimism, but such a pro-life bill has very little chance of passage by the current World Assembly electorate. I'd encourage you to take a more moderate approach, such as reserving the power to regulate abortion to member states.

((OOC: As SP points out, the World Assembly actually has two resolutions that legalize abortion -- both must be repealed before you can pass this kind of replacement.))

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

"Would that not be illegal by optionality?" Silver Zephyr responds.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

I salute your optimism, but such a pro-life bill has very little chance of passage by the current World Assembly electorate. I'd encourage you to take a more moderate approach, such as reserving the power to regulate abortion to member states.

((OOC: As SP points out, the World Assembly actually has two resolutions that legalize abortion -- both must be repealed before you can pass this kind of replacement.))

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

"Would that not be illegal by optionality?" Silver Zephyr responds.

OOC: Only if that were all it did. It's a simple matter to add something like "Requires member states to ensure proper licensing of anyone performing abortions consistent with the medical complexity of the procedure the person is licensed to perform." That would be enough for a Mild resolution to act as an otherwise pure blocker, I think.

Not that that is necessarily a good or popular idea, mind. But it would most likely be legal.

[Keshiland]

OOC: Assuming this follows a repeal of GAR#286, this violates GAR#128 and would be illegal.

Added the exeptions required

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Assuming this follows a repeal of GAR#286, this violates GAR#128 and would be illegal.

Added the exeptions required

OOC: Cool. This still duplicates GAR#128 and is illegal. If you don't understand the rules, don't draft things.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

"Ambassador, I've made the point before that treating a fetus as a legal person would require a police inquiry into every miscarriage, always with a little bit of humor. This proposal as written would literally require the imprisonment of every woman who loses her child. I'm not laughing now. This is fundamentally insane, sir."

[Serrus]

This was my reaction.
Seriously though: Here is a breakdown on what will and won't pass.

-Centrist 286 replacement/blocker
-Pro choice legislation
-Thoughtful proposals

-Abortion crackdowns
-Your laundry lists
-Legal=Good assumptions

[WA Kitty Kops]

OOC: I think there's a resolution that requires you to provide fair trial before throwing people into jail...? The trial by definition is not fair if the judge believes that the person is guilty ("abortion is murder") to begin with. And also, natural abortions happen. A lot. The vast majority of zygotes are aborted by the host's body well before the individual knows they're pregnant. Would you jail them for their bodies doing something without their knowledge? Like jailing someone for snoring.

And after the "life" is an actual fetus, natural abortions keep on happening. Same as above, the failure of the foreign tissue suppression system should not be punished by jail time when the host has no say in it happening. It's like jailing someone because their body rejects a transferred organ.

And fetal deaths happen, with the fetus dying due to a defect or an accident or unintentional poisoning or, well, for reasons unknown, and then the host's life WILL be in danger, if the mass of tissue starts to rot inside them. Would you put someone in jail because they had their infected appendix removed?

Even if you somehow managed to repeal the two abortion-protecting resolutions (which you can't, and especially YOU can't), you'd still get thrown out of the window. A lot. If you ever bothered to make a bloody character to RP here with, that is, rather than throwing shit at the WAHQ wall to see if some of it would stick. I seriously hope you get banned from WA before Fris (and the rest of us) really loses his patience with you.

[Serrus]

OOC: I think there's a resolution that requires you to provide fair trial before throwing people into jail...? The trial by definition is not fair if the judge believes that the person is guilty ("abortion is murder") to begin with. And also, natural abortions happen. A lot. The vast majority of zygotes are aborted by the host's body well before the individual knows they're pregnant. Would you jail them for their bodies doing something without their knowledge? Like jailing someone for snoring.

And after the "life" is an actual fetus, natural abortions keep on happening. Same as above, the failure of the foreign tissue suppression system should not be punished by jail time when the host has no say in it happening. It's like jailing someone because their body rejects a transferred organ.

And fetal deaths happen, with the fetus dying due to a defect or an accident or unintentional poisoning or, well, for reasons unknown, and then the host's life WILL be in danger, if the mass of tissue starts to rot inside them. Would you put someone in jail because they had their infected appendix removed?

Even if you somehow managed to repeal the two abortion-protecting resolutions (which you can't, and especially YOU can't), you'd still get thrown out of the window. A lot. If you ever bothered to make a bloody character to RP here with, that is, rather than throwing shit at the WAHQ wall to see if some of it would stick. I seriously hope you get banned from WA before Fris (and the rest of us) really loses his patience with you.

I think Sackeshi is plenty bloody given all the windows he was thrown through.

[Godular]

I believe my advisor has a phrase for this... I think it was... ah yes: ROFLNOPE

[Calladan]

Rights of the Unborn

Category: Human Rights

Strength: Significant

Proposed by: Keshiland

BELIEVING that life starts at conception

ACKNOWLEDGING that this is very controversial and personal for many people

YEARNING to give the unborn the right to life

THE WORLD ASSEMBLY

MANDATES that all pregnancies not resulting from rape or endangering the life of the mother must be completed and the life birthed

REQUIRES that violators face no less than the time that it would take in years to raise their offspring in prison or parole.

EXCEPTION extreme fetal abnormally

DEFINES extreme fetal abnormally as inability to live outside the womb

EFFECTIVE once passed.

So :-

if someone has a miscarriage through no fault of their own, they go to jail?
if someone gets shot in the stomach and the fetus dies, they go to jail?
if the baby is born prematurely (before the full term of pregnancy) and the baby survives then the mother goes to jail?

This seems to completely override due process and the right to a fair trial, which is more than a little disturbing.

If this proposal passes, we are going to change the age of majority to the point of conception. This would mean that no woman would be required to spend any time in prison, because a mother would not be required to raise their child beyond that legally. It would screw up a lot of other resolutions, but we can introduce secondary legislation to deal with that

[Auralia]

"Ambassador, I've made the point before that treating a fetus as a legal person would require a police inquiry into every miscarriage...

I've never understood this argument. Recognizing fetal personhood would not entail this parade of horribles that I've often seen trotted out with little evidence. We don't have police investigations into most deaths -- prenatal deaths would be no different.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

Teran Saber: "Permission to maul the ambassador of Keshiland?"

[States of Glory WA Office]

Teran Saber: "Permission to maul the ambassador of Keshiland?"

Neville: Permission should be considered granted by default.

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

Teran Saber: "Permission to maul the ambassador of Keshiland?"

Neville: Permission should be considered granted by default.

*Ambassador Teran Saber extends the claws of his right hand and inspects their sharpness*

Teran Saber: "Then it will be a pleasure."

[Calladan]

"Ambassador, I've made the point before that treating a fetus as a legal person would require a police inquiry into every miscarriage...

I've never understood this argument. Recognizing fetal personhood would not entail this parade of horribles that I've often seen trotted out with little evidence. We don't have police investigations into most deaths -- prenatal deaths would be no different.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

Actually most unexpected deaths do require some level of investigation. They require an autopsy and pathologists report, usually coupled with a county/district/area coroners investigation at the least.

And I would imagine that if the government of a country has taken the step of declaring the fetus to be a protected entity, and at the same time outlawed abortion in most cases, then ANY death involving a fetus would automatically be classified as suspicious, and would require investigating.

Just saying.

[Godular]

Neville: Permission should be considered granted by default.

*Ambassador Teran Saber extends the claws of his right hand and inspects their sharpness*

Teran Saber: "Then it will be a pleasure."

Alexis grins widely. "And I thought it would be boring in here!"

[Willania Imperium]

"Ah, Keishland! You always brighten me up with your attempts to wean out medals from the WA!"

[Dobrobyt]

Teran Saber: "Permission to maul the ambassador of Keshiland?"

Hey moderators? Admins?

[Shazbotdom]

"Worst proposal ever.”

[Wolfhawk]

now it is proposals like this that make me vote against removing reproductive freedoom and why it is considered the compromise