[WITHDRAWN DUE TO BEING POINTLESS] On Abortion II

[Calladan]

Firstly, I literally cannot believe we are writing this. But since it is apparent we may have misjudged some of The WA, and should reconsider our view of it, we thought we would have a try at taking Dale Cooper's advice (Hear the other side, see the other side, although he might have got that from someone else?).

Note :- We fully understand this cannot be passed without GAR #286 being repealed first, so please do feel free not to point that out. There is also a great deal that one or both of us like about GAR #286, so you might see bits of it coming through in this proposal. It is also a first pass, so it might be a bit floopy. And neither of us are all that good at formatting - the assumption is that would be tidied up closer to submission.

TITLE : On Abortion II
CATEGORY : Moral Decency
STRENGTH : SIGNIFICANT
Author : Covenstone

Noting that abortion is a controversial issue, with a wide range of views throughout The World Assembly,

Realising that people on both sides of the argument are unlikely to come to any kind of agreement,

Noting that people on both sides of the argument consider this a moral issue,

Understanding that while further debate will likely continue, a set of laws must be created that will satisfy everyone,

The World Assembly hereby :-

1. Permits member nations to legalise abortion within their borders for whatever reasons they wish, providing these reasons do not contravene existing international laws;

2. Permits member nations to prohibit abortion within their borders for whatever reasons they wish, providing these reasons do not contravene existing international laws;

3. Requires member nations to classify abortion as a medical procedure, with all the privileges and protections afforded to such a classification;

4. Requires member nations to pass such laws to prevent patients and providers of said procedure from targeted animosity;

5. Encourages member nations to provide counselling services for patients prior to the procedures being performed, but prohibits access to said procedures being contingent on attending said counselling services;

6. Encourages member nations to provide adoption services for patients.

Co-Author : Calladan.

Clause 1 - We believe that there are other reasons than the ones listed in "On Abortion" that a woman might seek an abortion. However we also understand that other nations might not agree. If the desire to repeal GAR #286 is just to allow individual nations to ban abortion, then this should satisfy that wish.
Clause 2 - See Clause 1. But also it ensures that GAR #128 remains intact and doesn't violate it.
Clause 3 - making abortion a medical procedure provides various protections under international law, including anonymity. For us, this is a no-brainer.
Clause 4 - Providing protection from intimidation and from lynch mobs that gather outside abortion clinics is equally a no-brainer. Without this clause, then you can legalise abortion all you want, but forcing a woman - or worse, a teenage girl - to walk a gauntlet of protesters and screaming people waving signs is worse than wrong. It is cruel and unusual punishment and not something any civilised society should allow. And if GAR #286 could be passed without duplication or violation then so can this. (Or at least one would think!)
Clause 5 and Clause 6 - if countries can provide any help and assistance to women going through a difficult time then they should. And if countries want to cut down on the number of abortions, providing access to adoption services and counselling services (leading to adoption) should help with that.

This puts almost ALL of the decisions into the hands of the national governments. It ensures that if a Religious Theocracy wants to limit abortions to only those allowed in GAR #128 it can, and if a Liberal Paradise wants to let women have abortions for almost any reason under the sun, it can. But it does not impose one nation's morals on another.

It has mandatory clauses, and as far as We know it doesn't duplicate any other resolutions or violate any other resolutions.

We realise Clause 4 is going to make people whine about freedom of speech, but it only replicates what already exists in GAR #286 (go look it up if you don't believe me) and since THAT was passed into World Assembly law, we am at a loss as to why this shouldn't be.

So, given this is a resolution we really never thought we would write, and one that will never get submitted because GAR #286 will never get repealed, how did we do?

Tara & Albertine.

[Dobrobyt]

Nope. I'm NOT going to be pushing abortion and encouraging it in Dobrobyt. This is sick. This is what can get us to leave the World Assembly. If you will plague it with acts like this, we see no benefit.

[Calladan]

Nope. I'm NOT going to be pushing abortion and encouraging it in Dobrobyt. This is sick. This is what can get us to leave the World Assembly. If you will plague it with acts like this, we see no benefit.

Can you point to the Clauses in this proposal that would require you to push abortion and to encourage it? Because if that is the impression it gives, then it has been written very badly.

On the other hand, if it is written as well as I believe it to be (and given my friend and I looked at it for quite a while before posting it I think it probably it) I think you have misread it and should try reading it again.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Good god, the current repeal will fail. They always do. Can we let it die silently?"

[Calladan]

"Good god, the current repeal will fail. They always do. Can we let it die silently?"

I was possibly hoping that if a replacement could be found that would shut everyone up for the next five, ten years or so (I know - some hope!) then we wouldn't get one of these gorram repeals every five days

[Separatist Peoples]

"Good god, the current repeal will fail. They always do. Can we let it die silently?"

I was possibly hoping that if a replacement could be found that would shut everyone up for the next five, ten years or so (I know - some hope!) then we wouldn't get one of these gorram repeals every five days

"We would get them anyway. The best thing to do is to ignore them. They're terrible, they're offensive, and they're inevitably poorly written, yes. They're also going nowhere fast. Take it from somebody who's been here a while."

[Land Without Shrimp]

Calladan - just a comment here. As someone who is opposed to 286, I can affirm that I would agree with this current draft proposal and vote for it.

[Serrus]

IC: "Ah, the NAPA method."
OOC: Better than a lot of the stuff on here. *clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clappity clap*

[Excidium Planetis]

"It's a shame that Excidium Planetis will never be able to support this replacement."

[Godular]

Alexis sends a paper airplane across the room, and with several waves of her hands enables the aerial origami to conduct some surprisingly elegant aerobatic maneuvers before sailing into a garbage bin.

"This strikes as a distinct case of getting ahead of oneself. If you have a 'moral' qualm about abortion, make it beneficial to keep the pregnancy. Stop trying to moralize so."

[Calladan]

Alexis sends a paper airplane across the room, and with several waves of her hands enables the aerial origami to conduct some surprisingly elegant aerobatic maneuvers before sailing into a garbage bin.

"This strikes as a distinct case of getting ahead of oneself. If you have a 'moral' qualm about abortion, make it beneficial to keep the pregnancy. Stop trying to moralize so."

Have you not been paying attention? Reading through the on going debates about repeals and other attempts to limit abortion? I suspect I have the fewest problems with abortion in The WA. This is an attempt to strike a balance between the two sides - those, like me, who think women should retain control over their own bodies in all circumstances and that the government has no say in it, and those, not like me, who think the government should be able to tell women what to do, what to say, when to breathe and when to crap in a bucket.

I thought if I put the ability to legalise the circumstances under which women could have abortion in the hands of the member nations, it might prove palatable to both sides - the right wing and the rest of us - but apparently all I have managed to do is piss off the right wing because I am still allowing nations to legalise abortion, and piss of the rest of us because I am still allowing nations to ban abortion.

Which was kind of predictable, when you think about it.

[The Greater Siriusian Domain]

Nope. I'm NOT going to be pushing abortion and encouraging it in Dobrobyt.

Teran Saber: "False dichotomy. Permiting it and encouraging it are completely different things."

This is sick. This is what can get us to leave the World Assembly. If you will plague it with acts like this, we see no benefit.

"If you do not feel that the World Assembly benefits your nation or your agendas, then leave. Nothing is forcing you to stay."

[Godular]

Alexis sends a paper airplane across the room, and with several waves of her hands enables the aerial origami to conduct some surprisingly elegant aerobatic maneuvers before sailing into a garbage bin.

"This strikes as a distinct case of getting ahead of oneself. If you have a 'moral' qualm about abortion, make it beneficial to keep the pregnancy. Stop trying to moralize so."

Have you not been paying attention? Reading through the on going debates about repeals and other attempts to limit abortion? I suspect I have the fewest problems with abortion in The WA. This is an attempt to strike a balance between the two sides - those, like me, who think women should retain control over their own bodies in all circumstances and that the government has no say in it, and those, not like me, who think the government should be able to tell women what to do, what to say, when to breathe and when to crap in a bucket.

I thought if I put the ability to legalise the circumstances under which women could have abortion in the hands of the member nations, it might prove palatable to both sides - the right wing and the rest of us - but apparently all I have managed to do is piss off the right wing because I am still allowing nations to legalise abortion, and piss of the rest of us because I am still allowing nations to ban abortion.

Which was kind of predictable, when you think about it.

Alexis snickers in reply.

"I guarantee you have more problems about abortion than we do. This measure you propose accomplishes nothing, in that it tells those participating nations to do whatever they feel like. It is a paper tiger in quite a few senses of the term, and of little practical value.

If a government has to resort to punitive measures and bans to enforce their own subjective views in an already moral gray area, then they lack the proper conviction to see their will done elsewhere."

[Auralia]

I thought if I put the ability to legalise the circumstances under which women could have abortion in the hands of the member nations, it might prove palatable to both sides - the right wing and the rest of us - but apparently all I have managed to do is piss off the right wing because I am still allowing nations to legalise abortion, and piss of the rest of us because I am still allowing nations to ban abortion.

Which was kind of predictable, when you think about it.

For the record, Auralia -- which has been quite active in World Assembly abortion debates -- has long supported the repeal of current World Assembly abortion legislation in favour of a blocker similar to the one you've proposed here that devolves the issue to individual member states.

Martin Russell
Chief Ambassador, Auralian Mission to the World Assembly

[Dignatius]

Couldn't we just choose to allow each member of the assembly to decide their own views on issues of reproductive rights and only apply their choice to their country?

[Calladan]

Couldn't we just choose to allow each member of the assembly to decide their own views on issues of reproductive rights and only apply their choice to their country?

You'd think so, but sadly there are nations who believe abortion is a crime against humanity on a scale of genocide and mass murder, and who believe it should be banned right across the known world in every single nation, regardless of the given nation's own moral stance on the subject.

[The Puddle Jumping Wads of Wrapper]

Couldn't we just choose to allow each member of the assembly to decide their own views on issues of reproductive rights and only apply their choice to their country?

ARI: An interesting argument. Or maybe... just maybe... we choose to let each woman to decide her own views on issues of reproductive rights and only apply their choice to their own bodies? Oh wait! We're doing that already! Opposed. Thank you, good night!

(Ari drops the mic and exits the debate hall.)

[Excidium Planetis]

ARI: An interesting argument. Or maybe... just maybe... we choose to let each woman to decide her own views on issues of reproductive rights and only apply their choice to their own bodies? Oh wait! We're doing that already! Opposed. Thank you, good night!

"As long as the choice only applies to the woman's body, and not the offspring's unborn body." Blackbourne agrees. "Although I do not imagine that the woman's desire for an abortion helps much in that case. Abortions really only work when they are applied to both bodies."

[Godular]

ARI: An interesting argument. Or maybe... just maybe... we choose to let each woman to decide her own views on issues of reproductive rights and only apply their choice to their own bodies? Oh wait! We're doing that already! Opposed. Thank you, good night!

"As long as the choice only applies to the woman's body, and not the offspring's unborn body." Blackbourne agrees. "Although I do not imagine that the woman's desire for an abortion helps much in that case. Abortions really only work when they are applied to both bodies."

Alexis snorts. "What, there's some zone within the woman's body that doesn't count as the woman's body just because it happens to be where somebody else is?"

With a seeming flick of her wrist, another paper airplane appears in her hand and she sights down its length. "If somebody else were to have some part of their body in MY body when I don't wish it so..." Another flick of the wrist, and the airplane has turned into an origami sword. "It will belong to that somebody else no longer."

[Excidium Planetis]

Alexis snorts. "What, there's some zone within the woman's body that doesn't count as the woman's body just because it happens to be where somebody else is?"

With a seeming flick of her wrist, another paper airplane appears in her hand and she sights down its length. "If somebody else were to have some part of their body in MY body when I don't wish it so..." Another flick of the wrist, and the airplane has turned into an origami sword. "It will belong to that somebody else no longer."

"I fear for the rights of conjoined persons in your nation." Blackbourne retorts.

[Godular]

Alexis snorts. "What, there's some zone within the woman's body that doesn't count as the woman's body just because it happens to be where somebody else is?"

With a seeming flick of her wrist, another paper airplane appears in her hand and she sights down its length. "If somebody else were to have some part of their body in MY body when I don't wish it so..." Another flick of the wrist, and the airplane has turned into an origami sword. "It will belong to that somebody else no longer."

"I fear for the rights of conjoined persons in your nation." Blackbourne retorts.

"There are none," Alexis replies with a grin. "Besides, I keep hearing people lob that silly idea out as if it's at all favorable to their position. You can't have it both ways, when saying that the two are the same body AND different bodies all at once. Pick and stick."

[New Waldensia]

I thought if I put the ability to legalise the circumstances under which women could have abortion in the hands of the member nations, it might prove palatable to both sides - the right wing and the rest of us - but apparently all I have managed to do is piss off the right wing because I am still allowing nations to legalise abortion, and piss of the rest of us because I am still allowing nations to ban abortion.

Which was kind of predictable, when you think about it.

That middle ground is usually indicative of a good compromise.

[Tinfect]

I thought if I put the ability to legalise the circumstances under which women could have abortion in the hands of the member nations, it might prove palatable to both sides - the right wing and the rest of us - but apparently all I have managed to do is piss off the right wing because I am still allowing nations to legalise abortion, and piss of the rest of us because I am still allowing nations to ban abortion.

Which was kind of predictable, when you think about it.

That middle ground is usually indicative of a good compromise.

OOC:
In practice it tends to just be something that neither side wants and doesn't really work.

[States of Glory WA Office]

Fairburn: What does 'II' stand for?

[Godular]

Fairburn: What does 'II' stand for?

"I think it is Italian for 'The'."