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[DRAFT] Involuntary Servitude Act

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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:23 am

Araraukar wrote:So like the Banishment Ban that doesn't actually ban banishment, this doesn't do anything that the combination of GA #23, Ban on Slavery and Trafficking and GA #323, No Penalty Without Law didn't do.

Neville: Point to the sections that regulate penal labour.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:34 am

States of Glory WA Office wrote:Neville: Point to the sections that regulate penal labour.

OOC: In your proposal or the existing resolutions? Not being snarky, just not sure which you're asking.
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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:01 am

Araraukar wrote:
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Neville: Point to the sections that regulate penal labour.

OOC: In your proposal or the existing resolutions? Not being snarky, just not sure which you're asking.

OOC; Existing resolutions.
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Postby Shazbotdom » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:55 am

"How would this resolution affect those within Work Release style programs, in which they do get paid for the work that they performed but are placed in the job by the Governmental Entity that imprisoned them?" Ambassador Flabberghast inquired.
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Kizja
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Postby Kizja » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:58 pm

The generality of the definition is such that it would seem to cover a state-run orphanage forcing a child to make their bed. Likewise, it would cover state mandated medical exams that include manual labour to study an individual's health.

These are both examples of manual labour that a state entity is forcing an individual to perform without the individual's consent.

A resolution of this issue would be to alter "manual labour" to something more precise. In particular, the activity being restricted from being unduly strenuous, or similar.
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Sciongrad
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Postby Sciongrad » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:08 am

"Sciongrad does not use penal labor nor does it conscript to fill the ranks of its military. This resolution doesn't much affect our policies. However, we do believe penal labor is a violation of human rights, and in many societies, merely serves as a legal pretext for the continuation of slavery."

Wallenburg wrote:Homework.

OOC: Why do you need to do that? Do you think SoG, who's been here for months, doesn't know there's a resolution on slavery? And if you're going to be patronizing, at least be right.
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:04 am

Sciongrad wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Homework.

OOC: Why do you need to do that? Do you think SoG, who's been here for months, doesn't know there's a resolution on slavery? And if you're going to be patronizing, at least be right.

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
The Greater Siriusian Domain wrote:Teran Saber: "Secondly, don't we already have something like this?"

Neville: Having looked through all the passed resolutions, I believe not.

So Sciongrad, in your opinion, a resolution prohibiting involuntary servitude is nothing like a resolution prohibiting slavery. Fascinating.
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:21 am

Wallenburg wrote:So Sciongrad, in your opinion, a resolution prohibiting involuntary servitude is nothing like a resolution prohibiting slavery. Fascinating.


OOC:
That's not what he's saying, for one, and second, as stated previously, Ban on Slavery and Trafficking contains this bit:
3. The definition of 'forced labour' excludes:
[...]
- prison labour or community service given as sentence in the course of a fair trial;

Which specifically excludes what is defined here as Involuntary Servitude. All States of Glory does here is attempt to regulate it.
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Sciongrad
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Postby Sciongrad » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:04 am

Wallenburg wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:OOC: Why do you need to do that? Do you think SoG, who's been here for months, doesn't know there's a resolution on slavery? And if you're going to be patronizing, at least be right.

States of Glory WA Office wrote:Neville: Having looked through all the passed resolutions, I believe not.

So Sciongrad, in your opinion, a resolution prohibiting involuntary servitude is nothing like a resolution prohibiting slavery. Fascinating.

OOC: Umm, yes? Especially when involuntary penal servitude is explicitly excepted in GAR#23. Have you read that resolution you're quoting?
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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:26 pm

Shazbotdom wrote:"How would this resolution affect those within Work Release style programs, in which they do get paid for the work that they performed but are placed in the job by the Governmental Entity that imprisoned them?" Ambassador Flabberghast inquired.

Neville: To my understanding, work release involves a prisoner working somewhere where they are already employed, so they would already have given their informed consent. If I have misunderstood then please feel free to correct me.

Kizja wrote:The generality of the definition is such that it would seem to cover a state-run orphanage forcing a child to make their bed. Likewise, it would cover state mandated medical exams that include manual labour to study an individual's health.

These are both examples of manual labour that a state entity is forcing an individual to perform without the individual's consent.

A resolution of this issue would be to alter "manual labour" to something more precise. In particular, the activity being restricted from being unduly strenuous, or similar.

Neville: Is it not generally assumed that in the absence of specific definitions, the most common definition is to be used? I doubt that making a bed and performing a medical exam counts as manual labour under the most common and plain-reading definition of that term.

Under extant WA legislation, only penal labour involving PoWs is regulated. This proposal regulates civilian penal labour, which is as of yet unregulated by the WA.
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Giant Bats
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Postby Giant Bats » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:48 pm

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Involuntary Servitude Act
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant


The World Assembly,

NOTING that this is the preamble,

BELIEVING that blah blah blah,

ACKNOWLEDGING that yada yada yada,

CONCERNED, however, that rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb,

HEREBY:

  1. DEFINES involuntary servitude, for the purposes of this resolution, as manual labour that a state entity forces an individual, often a convict or a PoW, to perform without their informed consent,

  2. PROHIBITS member states from placing an individual in involuntary servitude if said individual is not legally competent,

  3. PROHIBITS member states from placing a civilian in involuntary servitude unless:

    • the labour forms a sentence, or any part thereof, handed down as the result of a criminal conviction,
    • the labour forms an essential part of compulsory military service, or
    • such servitude is necessary to maintain internal stability following an invasion, occupation or natural disaster,

  4. OBLIGES member states to release individuals from involuntary servitude once:

    • their sentence has expired or been annulled, if they are in involuntary servitude as the result of a criminal conviction,
    • their military service is completed, if they are in involuntary servitude as an essential part of compulsory military service, or
    • internal stability has been restored, if they are in involuntary servitude as a result of internal instability,

  5. REQUIRES member states to utilise the same safety standards for individuals serving involuntary servitude as are utilised for other employees, regardless of whether compensation is provided in return for the labour performed,

  6. CLARIFIES that member states shall henceforth retain the right to decide for themselves whether individuals serving involuntary servitude are to be compensated in return for any labour performed.

"What is rhubarb?" Ikiti asked. "Also, can the writer of this thing - which I understand is not the creature called Fairburn - please give me an example of what kind of state-mandated involuntary manual labour exists, that does not fall into the exceptions in clause 3?"

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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:50 pm

Giant Bats wrote:
States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Involuntary Servitude Act
Category: Human Rights | Strength: Significant


The World Assembly,

NOTING that this is the preamble,

BELIEVING that blah blah blah,

ACKNOWLEDGING that yada yada yada,

CONCERNED, however, that rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb,

HEREBY:

  1. DEFINES involuntary servitude, for the purposes of this resolution, as manual labour that a state entity forces an individual, often a convict or a PoW, to perform without their informed consent,

  2. PROHIBITS member states from placing an individual in involuntary servitude if said individual is not legally competent,

  3. PROHIBITS member states from placing a civilian in involuntary servitude unless:

    • the labour forms a sentence, or any part thereof, handed down as the result of a criminal conviction,
    • the labour forms an essential part of compulsory military service, or
    • such servitude is necessary to maintain internal stability following an invasion, occupation or natural disaster,

  4. OBLIGES member states to release individuals from involuntary servitude once:

    • their sentence has expired or been annulled, if they are in involuntary servitude as the result of a criminal conviction,
    • their military service is completed, if they are in involuntary servitude as an essential part of compulsory military service, or
    • internal stability has been restored, if they are in involuntary servitude as a result of internal instability,

  5. REQUIRES member states to utilise the same safety standards for individuals serving involuntary servitude as are utilised for other employees, regardless of whether compensation is provided in return for the labour performed,

  6. CLARIFIES that member states shall henceforth retain the right to decide for themselves whether individuals serving involuntary servitude are to be compensated in return for any labour performed.

"What is rhubarb?" Ikiti asked.

Fairburn: Only the greatest thing ever. Harold, give the Ambassador some rhubarb.

Harold proceeds to place a stick of rhubarb in front of Ikiti.

Giant Bats wrote:"Also, can the writer of this thing...please give me an example of what kind of state-mandated involuntary manual labour exists, that does not fall into the exceptions in clause 3?"

Fairburn: Yes.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:54 pm

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Giant Bats wrote:"Also, can the writer of this thing...please give me an example of what kind of state-mandated involuntary manual labour exists, that does not fall into the exceptions in clause 3?"

Fairburn: Yes.

OOC: So is that SoG-speak for "I need more time to think"? :P
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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:05 pm

Araraukar wrote:
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Fairburn: Yes.

OOC: So is that SoG-speak for "I need more time to think"? :P

OOC: No, it means that Fairburn is physically capable of providing an example of what kind of state-mandated involuntary manual labour exists that doesn't fall into the exceptions in Clause Three.

GA #23 mentions national service (including conscription), penal labour, PoWs and national emergency service, all of which are allowed under this proposal subject to the limitations. The final item on the list, 'normal civic duties', could potentially be abused as it clearly doesn't refer to the aforementioned four. If GA #23 believes that involuntary servitude outside of forced labour and the four specific exemptions exist then who am I to dishonour its legacy?
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:14 pm

States of Glory WA Office wrote:If GA #23 believes that involuntary servitude outside of forced labour and the four specific exemptions exist then who am I to dishonour its legacy?

OOC: I'm not asking about honouring legacy, I'm asking for a specific example. IC or RL.
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:01 am

PROHIBITS member states from placing a civilian in involuntary servitude unless:

  • the labour forms a sentence, or any part thereof, handed down as the result of a criminal conviction,
  • the labour forms an essential part of compulsory military service, or
  • such servitude is necessary to maintain internal stability following an invasion, occupation or natural disaster,

"I fail to see why the quoted section is necessary." Blackbourne states. "It seems to be entirely duplication of GA#23 and its exceptions.

"Of course on reflection, it lacks the 'normal civic duties' exception, leading me to believe it bans governments from requiring any kind of non-punitive community service. Were it not for the use of the term 'manual labor', I would say this bans such activities as jury duty or compulsory voting. Any kind of similar civic duties of such structure as to require manual labor, perhaps communal gardening or some such thing, even if expected of all citizens, would be banned."
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Incantata Phantasia
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Postby Incantata Phantasia » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:59 am

"With respect to the cares of this resolution for the due legal procedure, we find then fair enough, but lacking to clarify about the occasions of procedures carried by unlawful "Kangaroo Courts", which we would like to see condemned as unfit to apply such harsh penalties or at least have their powers to do so restricted by this resolution, and have reserved the rights of the sentenced to latter have their cases revised by fair trials or lawful international courts. We also would like, that once more the use of martial courts to judge upon civilians be forbidden, at least from condemning them for servitude which is the subject of this resolution."

"It is also of our preoccupation, that this resolution, as well as the cited "exclusions of forced labour" from the General Assembly Resolution # 23, does not includes restrictions of humanitarian cause for the applying of involuntary servitude. We believe that this is a fortuitous occasion to impose restrictions upon lawful forced labour, such as: People of old age, pregnant women, people with worrying medical conditions, facilities of forced labour without reasonable sanitary conditions, and imposition of forced labour without provision of sufficient nutrition or medical attention. It would also be recommended, to condemn cases of violence, crippling or death occurred during involuntary servitude, and subjected to international law if necessary, with the demands of compensation to the victims or their families, and punishment of those guilty."

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Bakhton
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Postby Bakhton » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:12 pm

"We oppose. Involuntary servitude and slavery are the same where I am from."
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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:26 pm

Bakhton wrote:"We oppose. Involuntary servitude and slavery are the same where I am from."

Fairburn: Yes, because your nation is the sole member of the World Assembly.
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Bakhton
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Postby Bakhton » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:24 pm

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Bakhton wrote:"We oppose. Involuntary servitude and slavery are the same where I am from."

Fairburn: Yes, because your nation is the sole member of the World Assembly.

"Let me rephrase, it is slavery."
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States of Glory WA Office
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Postby States of Glory WA Office » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:31 pm

Bakhton wrote:
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Fairburn: Yes, because your nation is the sole member of the World Assembly.

"Let me rephrase, it is slavery."

Fairburn: Not according to GA #23.
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Bakhton
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Postby Bakhton » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:50 pm

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Bakhton wrote:"Let me rephrase, it is slavery."

Fairburn: Not according to GA #23.

"Oh wait you're right. Okay, well the former issues that its already covered by Workplace Safety Standards still stands. It did so back when I tried to write a proposal on this."
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:43 pm

States of Glory WA Office wrote:
Bakhton wrote:"Let me rephrase, it is slavery."

Fairburn: Not according to GA #23.


"Actually, it is, according to GA#23." Blackbourne corrects. "GA#23 explicitly states that slavery, along with forced labour and human trafficking, is servitude. Observe:
1. Holding under the law any person to be the possession, property, or chattel of any other person or any legal entity, or binding any person to an employer by a contract to which they have not consented, shall be considered 'slavery' and immediately prohibited in all nations;

5. Such conditions shall be collectively referred to as 'servitude';

"So servitude and slavery are, according to GA#23, the same thing."
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Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:42 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:
States of Glory WA Office wrote:Fairburn: Not according to GA #23.


"Actually, it is, according to GA#23." Blackbourne corrects. "GA#23 explicitly states that slavery, along with forced labour and human trafficking, is servitude. Observe:
1. Holding under the law any person to be the possession, property, or chattel of any other person or any legal entity, or binding any person to an employer by a contract to which they have not consented, shall be considered 'slavery' and immediately prohibited in all nations;

5. Such conditions shall be collectively referred to as 'servitude';

"So servitude and slavery are, according to GA#23, the same thing."

The issue with this interpretation is that a lot of involuntary servitude does involve contracts to which the person consented IE: indentured servitude, the most common form of slavery today.
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Excidium Planetis
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Postby Excidium Planetis » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:02 pm

Aclion wrote:The issue with this interpretation is that a lot of involuntary servitude does involve contracts to which the person consented IE: indentured servitude, the most common form of slavery today.

"I'm afraid I don't see how that matters, since such service doesn't even qualify as involuntary servitude under the resolution we are debating:"
DEFINES involuntary servitude, for the purposes of this resolution, as manual labour that a state entity forces an individual, often a convict or a PoW, to perform without their informed consent,
Current Ambassador: Adelia Meritt
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
#MakeLegislationFunnyAgain
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
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